Arizona Boys Ranch

[DAUGHTER]

Do I valued my eternal life with my Heavenly Father over this mortal life with sinners?? In one short word--yes. Absolutely. I have dedicated my life to serving the Lord and my only purpose here on earth is to do His will and tell others about him. I am looking forward to my homecoming and living forever in Heaven. OverLordd, go ahead and try to kick me out of Heaven but the Bibil says once you have accepted the Lord He will never leave you nor foresake you. The Lord knows my heart and it is His grace that allows me to be there, not an imposter such as yourself--the decisiion is not up to you. Saying you wish another person was denied enterance into Heaven is selfish and hypocritical. That is definitly not very Christ-like--we are suppose to share His news to win others for Him and allow them to enjoy eternal life. By saying such a thing, OverLordd, you have shown your level of spirituality. If you are a born-again believer then we are suppose to be brothers and sisters. You saying you want to kick me out of Heaven seems like a demonic and sinful thing to say.
And about starting that war, good luck. Heaven is perfect, remember. Lucifer and his followers had sin in their hearts so they were cast out of Heaven. Starting that war and attempting to cast others out yourself may backfire on you and you just might end up in that very same hell yourself. So by all means, OverLordd, please reconsider this. On a technicality anyways, I believe we will not remember events that occurred on this earth once we are united in heaven so you would have no recolection of who I even am.
For those anonymous posters who bash my religious beliefs and label me as a Bible thumper--what is wrong with me have my own personal beliefs? You obviously have your own and I respect that. I only ask for that very same respect in return. (Oh what do you know it's all back to that very same statement--you have to give respect in order to receive it!!) If you so wish to spend time with juvenile delinquients over me--then so be it. I really don't care and I won't lose sleep at night over it. It doesn't hurt my feelings one bit becasue to tell you the truth, I wouldn't want to spent time with you either. The Bible says you begin to imitate the actions of the people you interact with most. This has even been proven, and I wouldn't want to begin acting or thinking like you do.

[Nihilanthic]

The Bible says you begin to imitate the actions of the people you interact with most. This has even been proven, and I wouldn't want to begin acting or thinking like you do. "

Being vindictive, holier-than-thou, hypocritical and twisted? Yep Yep.  :lol:

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[Anonymous]

"You do not have to give respect in order for it to be given to you. thats just not they way it works."

Goodness, OL, be careful. You're sounding like the lessons we try to teach the kids!!!!  :eek:

[Anonymous]

Daughter, there is not a thing wrong with you having your own beliefs... until it comes to using it to justify the abuse of innocent and distressed children- those who are already suffering unawarely from a dysfunctional home and society that has forgotten what the needs of children are... and who could care less... until those children enter the 'age of accountability' and show them how angry they are for being neglected. This dear, has everything to do with iterpretation.

I'd recommend you go to your bible and read only the direct quotes made by 'YOUR' lord- NOT the commentary of those who claimed to speak for him. Nowhere does he advocate the neglect/punishment cycle that kids live with now. THOSE are the words of the Romans who usurped the message of 'YOUR' Lord.

Quite the contrary. If you read carefully you may not sleep well tonight. He wasn't a supproter of sacrificing kids on the alter of profit or narcissism. He damned to 'hell' those that would harm a child. But then, most who fall into that category of souls can not seem to discern that they live in hell now, and are so tormented as to subject others to their beliefs when given the slightest opportunity.

Good luck on getting a free pass into 'heaven'. From my vantage point, you are going to be sorely disappointed, in this life and beyond; if you don't really reevaluate your thinking and beliefs.
That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. One thing for certain... In MY heaven I won't have to mingle with the likes of you. That in itself will be an immense pleasure. You may feel the same.
Let it be.

[Anonymous]

I maintain that Daughter should go out get it up the ass from the entire defensive line of the Dallas Cowboys, then come back with some stories to tell us.

Jesus she is like 19 years old. That is not enough life experience to wipe shit stains of a public toilet seat.

All these biblical quotes and protect the daddy crap remind me of some many other bright eyed little dweebs I have met. Sooner or later they all get a friggin clue, and life goes on.

The bible for all its faults and merits is no adequete subsitute for experience. Its why I pay absolutely no attention to posters like Daughter, or Niles, or Overlord. They really don't know a friggin thing. Clueless little kids playing a grown up game.

Come back after you pull the Dallas Cowboy's Choo Choo train little girly then someone might give a shit. Use the index section of the bible to wipe the jizz off your face, the rest of it might have something you need should you actually care to read the damn thing.

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-10-01 04:18:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

Overall, you get what you give. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED. When these teens showed consistent respect of authority then they resceived the same respect back. It's simple really. Also another value and moral I learned at the military bases and ABR!!

Daugther, military 'structure' is meant for the military; to keep people under control so you can fight with your group against another group, to the death if need be, so that the higher ups can make sure everything goes as they plan and as they say. Its also meant to keep them functioning (and obedient) if they ever go under a psychological regression while in combat... and hey, war is hell and shit happens.



But guess what? The military is the military, its not THE WORLD, its not the way it is or should be outside of it. Neither necessity nor improvement over other ways of living have been demonstrated to me. To YOU, its all you know.



Oh and another thing, why is "authority" intrinsically deserving of "respect"? How do you define either of them? Authority is not intrinsically anything but a power structure - authority thats incompetent, corrupt, malicious, etc is not deserving of respect, now is it?



Furthermore, how do you show 'respect for authority' in your worldview? Obedience and submission?



Oh, and BTW, rights, civility, and respect for someone as a human being isn't 'respect' for authority. A LOT of authority figures in my life have been apathetic, incompetent, or self-absorbed. Im not respecting that for one second, and Id disagree if you think someone whose  a 'teen' should by default.



Oh and to conclude... people with degrees who crunched the numbers found that bootcamps dont work. No positive change on recidivism! Seems breaking people and/or indoctrinating them into the way you and your parents live... or to put it more concisely proselytizing someone to be like you isnt 'therapy' and this 'respect' for rank and hierarchy thats drilled into your psyche doesnt matter to anyone outside of your little world.



Individualism and holding people accountable, including those with rank and authority is one of MY values, Daugther.

Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)

"

Very well stated. All this stuff about respecting authority that these programs push keeps making me angry; and you described why beautifully. I try to teach my kid to think, not obey.

What ever happened to that old bumper sticker we used to frequently see? You know, the one that read, 'Question Authority.' Times have changed.

[Anonymous]

ANON who is so fond of the Dallas Cowboys: and just how OLD AND MATURE do you think these Dallas Cowboys are??? Professional football players careers have the life expectancy of what? About 5-7 years average? Let's not discount young posters by comparing them to thick-headed football players when lots of them are "drugged out" anyway!

[DAUGHTER]

Age is naturally associated with experience. But that doesn't mean I am uneducated or not entitled to my beliefs. I have researched this topic thoroughly (and contrary to all your beliefs, I am NOT doing this to "protect my daddy"!! I have never even discussed this topic with him before! So you can just throw that idea out the window!). I have finished high school-(which is more than most of those kids from these programs ever had) and I am in the process of receiving a pre-veterinary degree before moving on to graudate school. I am very smart and dedicated and according to some-strong-willed. I find those good qualities, personally. I stand up for what I believe in and could care less if you agree with me on them or not. Age has nothing to do with what we are discussing here. Most of the boys at ABR were younger than me and I have not messed my life up like they had by my age. Does this make me a better person? No, but this does show that I make better decisions in my life and care about my future.
And to the anonymous posters who wish to debate my spiritual life, all I can say is God knows my heart. I am also dedicated to my religion and to serving my God-I have read my Bible (not all of it, but I would like to meet someone who has read every word by age 19). And the Bible says all I have to go spend forever in Heaven with Him when I die is accept His Son as my Lord and Savior and believe He died on the cross and rose again the third day. And I have accepted Jesus as my Savior and as a result, my name is written in the Lamb's book of Life. This is the only way one is allowerd into Heaven and once your name is written in that book it can never be erased. You're only "damned to Hell" by not acepting his Son, anonymous. Now if you wanna get technical about admittance into Heaven-receiving the mark of the Beast is the only way you will not be allowed into the pearly gates. No where in the Bible does it say that one that hurts a child is denied access. (You know how I know all this, anonymous?? I HAVE READ MY BIBLE!!)I have never harmed a child anyways so your comments and opinions have no effect on me-I have even worked in Christian childcare for years throughout high school. And the kids loved me-I would even let them stay at my house so they wouldn't have to spend every Friday night at the bars with their drunk and dead-beat fathers.
And the Bible is perfect-pure-without fault. So, your comment that the "The bible with all its faults and merits is no adequate substitute for experience." is totally wrong. And reguarding the latter half of that comment, while the Bible does not substitute experience, it does, however, provide excellent advice and guidance for your life. It provides wonderful life lessons through parables and stories so that we may learn from others' experiences.
And I see absolutely no connection about haveing "no experience" and the Dallas Cowboys. I personally think they are a horrible football team anyways!! I'm from the East coast so I support my home teams.

[Anonymous]

Daughter, I got to give you some credit for hanging in there ... wrong as you may be in your values and beliefs ... the fact is you are FREE to worship the God of your choice and express your thoughts and opinions of the private teen lock-up industry.

Too bad the kids who are forced into these "programs" are NOT FREE to express their thoughts and opinions for fear of being "disciplined" for not thinking and behaving like the program tells them to.

FREEDOM should not be for sale or trade, but this is America, where forcing kids to EARN their freedom is a way of life.

Kids are essentially second class citizens.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Daughter, you say "you have not discussed this topic with Daddy?" Now why would a Christian girl like you LIE? Think you have been told before, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY!

[Anonymous]

Let's not forget that Nick was not "disciplined," this young boy was KILLED!

[DAUGHTER]

Had you been reading my posts at all from the beginning you would see that my father and i have an estranged relationship and haven't talked for a few years. And the reason of our estrangement has nothing to do with ABR and frankly, no of your business. So don't accuse me of lying if you don't know all the facts when you're just too ignorant to find out the truth yourself. You're just so quick to jump down my throat about it when you're WRONG!! See my point again is confirmed that all you guys simply assume things without knowing the complete truth. First was OverLordd assuming I was a "son of an ex-worker" and now you. Get your facts straight.
Now about their "FREEDOM"- these kids deserved all the freedom this great country entitles them as being a citizen of this country up until they broke the law and had their freedom revoked as a punishment. It happens to men/women in prison and these kids were their as an alternative to prison so yeah, the punishment is going to resemble jail is some aspects. They essential did have more freedom than people in jail or prison, however. They went to school, football games, had cranivals/fairs and went on field trips, etc. I don't find they had it all that bad, but they also weren't there to have a vacation and have life be one big happy tea party either. They were there to be punished for the crimes they comitted. Their actions, choices, and life decisions resulted in the loss of some of their freedoms. Once they finished their punishment they received all their freedoms back. I feel no sympathy or pity for them-they were the ones that caused the loss of their freedoms and no one else-they were the ones to blame.
And please note that Nic was no murdered---had he been murdered, there would have been people prosecuted and charged and sentenced the crime, and no one has yet to be sentenced!! Remember that we as American citizens have the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty--its another freedom we have (and it was also a freedom this kids were given when prosecuted). You advocate for these kids to have their freedoms after the court revoked them from them but won't give these innocent workers that very freedom that was given to the criminals. Seems a little self-contradictory, don't you think?? Also, I would just like to correct you, I don't think kids are second class citizens, just criminals.

[Anonymous]

Hell, I don't care what this poor boy did.  He was sent to Arizona Ranch to do "time" ... not end up in a body bag.

Maybe if you repeat this phrase three times and click your your army boot heels together, the ice that runs through your veins will melt.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE.
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE.

 :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:

[Anonymous]

The fact that no one was charged and found guilty does not mean that the staff at ABR weren't guilty of involuntary manslaughter, among other crimes. Happens all the time, and much too frequently in this industry.

Main Entry: involuntary manslaughter
Function: noun
: manslaughter resulting from the failure to perform a legal duty expressly required to safeguard human life, from the commission of an unlawful act not constituting a felony, or from the commission of a lawful act in a negligent or improper manner

We know what ABR did to Nick.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =80#136022

So Hun,
If YOU held responsibility for a kid who was collapsing, shitting himself, vomitting so frequently that jokes were made about it, who had also lost 30 pounds; what would YOU do?
What would your LORD do?

I'm guessin' that your response will be that they fulfilled their obligation by having him checked by the company doctor who cleared him for further abuse... that doctor who was on probabtion for illegal distribution of narcotics, self-prescribing and inadequate maintenance of medical charts.

If it were your OWN child, might you have been compelled to get a second opinion if the condition didn't improve in a day or two?

How in god's name does a kid fake those kind of symptoms for days on end? Truth- they don't. And punishment is not the appropriate cure for a lung infection. ABR clearly neglected Nick's medical needs which resulted in his death.

The fact that you defend what they did makes you an accomplice of sorts and the target of people's anger. Why are you here anyway defending the program, instead of the staff members who committed this crime? You weren't even a witness. Had you been, perhaps watching this child loose his body functions may have even prompted you to insist on proper care. We can't know for certain, but perhaps.

[Anonymous]

Daughter, you need to spend all that PRAYING TIME to get things right with DADDY. You do know one of the BIG TEN is to "honor your father and mother," now don't you.

NOW: give me ten...and start praying...and get it right with Daddy, now Daughter!!!!