Author Topic: Arizona Boys Ranch  (Read 26099 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2005, 12:06:00 AM »
Like DAUGHTER has said, OverLordd, these kids aren't there to have fun. They're there to serve a punishment. They're not "some poor kids" that are tortured under the "rule of torturous staff members" as you all believe. They are there because they have committed crimes and broken the law. People who work with these troubled teens have to break down their walls and relentless attitudes to reach these kids and turn their lives around. Wake up and see the truth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2005, 12:17:00 AM »
Before this topic gets way off into justifying what happened to Nick, or passing off abuse as f'ing exercise....
WHAT FOLLOWS IS NOT EXERCISE OR DISCIPLINE OR ROUTINE OR PROPER CARE. IT IS ABUSE:

Employees at the paramilitary-style camp, where hundreds of California youth offenders are sent, had already tried to deal with Nick's incontinence by MAKING HIM SLEEP IN SOILED UNDERWEAR, ordering him to DROP HIS PANTS SO THAT OTHER BOYS COULD INSPECT THEM, requiring he FINISH WHATEVER PHYSICAL ACTIVITY [EXERCISE???] he was engaged in BEFORE USING THE RESTROOM, making him EAT DINNER WHILE SITTING ON THE TOILET and, near the end of his life, making him CARRY A YELLOW TRASH BASKET FILLED WITH HIS SOILD CLOTES AND HIS OWN VOMIT.

At times he was instructed to do push-ups that LOWERED HIS FACE INTO THE FOUL-SMELLING BASKET.
On the day before he died, Nick COLLAPSED SEVERAL TIMES DURING PHYSICAL TRAINING. After he fell while running up a hill, staff bundled him into a wheelbarrow and made another boy push him around the camp. Nick was told to make the sound of an ambulance siren.

On the day he died, a staff member told Nick he deserved an ACADEMY AWARD FOR RAKING.

Nick collapsed for the last time about 5:30 p.m. on March 2. Staff members, who had SPENT THE DAY ORDERING MORE AND MORE PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT, [NOT ROUTINE, NOT EXERCISE- A HALF HOUR ACCORDING TO DAUGHTER] issued their last command. Get up, Nick was told. "No" was the last word he spoke.

Babb failed to note any illness, even as Nick rapidly lost weight--as much as 20 pounds--and began to VOMIT SEVERAL TIMES A DAY, ate little food and began defecating on himself. Nearly each time he saw the nurse, she cleared him for PHYSICAL EXERCISE, according to the sheriff's investigation.

Other boys reported that Nick's vomiting was so regular that staff would mock him, start a countdown and say: "He's gonna blow!"
According to one 16-year-old boy, everyone watched as Nick was DAILY BELITTLED BY STAFF when he WAS UNABLE TO DO PT.
"They'd tell him, 'Keep going!' or 'get up off your knees!,' " the boy told investigators. "If he didn't keep doing the push-ups, then they'd PICK HIM UP AND START PUSHIN' HIM UP AND HE'D START CRYING, he'd say, 'I can't do it.' They start MOCKING HIM, 'I can't, I can't,' like he was a little kid. They'd start pickin' him up and BEATIN' HIM AGAINST THE GROUND. He would let out a series of yelps, like, 'OW!,' but they kept doin' it."
As he grew more physically unable to perform physical exercise, he was PUNISHED BY BEING MADE TO DO MORE.
"They try and MAKE HIM WORK HARDER THAN ANYBODY ELSE HERE, they make him do PT and he throw up all over the place," he said. "They don't even make him clean up. [They] make him KEEP GOING AND GOING AND GOING. He'll throw up like three times a day but they KEEP MAKING HIM DO PT."

Staff members told investigators that they viewed Nick's complaints and collapses AS A TRICK to get out of work. Andres Torres, Nick's Boys Ranch case manager, told sheriff's deputies that the boy never said anything to him about being sick.

Residents have adopted their own terminology, including "Wall to Wall Counseling," which means BEING THROWN AROUND THE POOL ROOM BY STAFFERS, and "Texas sandstorm," in which residents EXERCISE FOR TWO HOURS IN A SEALED AND HEATED BARRACKS. [A HALF HOUR, DAUGHTER????]
 
Among the complaints against staffers at the ranch that licensing authorities have substantiated: A boy was HIT ON THE HEAD WITH A SHOVEL, a boy's HEAD REPEATEDLY DUNKED IN WATER, a boy's FEET WERE BURNED so severely in hot water that he required skin grafts, a boy's NOSE WAS BROKEN AFTER HIS HEAD WAS SLAMMED INTO A TABLE.

* In 1995, the ranch fired two employees who struck a 15-year-old California boy 25 to 30 times.
* Newly released Arizona Department of Economic Security records show that in a 1996 internal memo, five employees complained that Boys Ranch was hostile and uncooperative and "CONTINUES TO ABUSE CHILDREN, THWART REGULATIONS AND USE THEIR POLITICAL INFLUENCE TO COMBAT NONCOMPLIANCE OF LICENSING RULES." The documents also show that DES agreed to give the ranch 48 hours' notice before undertaking any inspections.
* The ranch's LICENSE HAS BEEN PUT ON PROVISIONAL STATUS BECAUSE OF ABUSE THREE TIMES. In the latest case, its license was renewed in 1996, with the stipulation that it enact more stringent reporting on ill or hurt children and increase staff training on the use of physical restraint and control.

ANYONE WITH A LICK OF INTELLEGENCE KNOWS WHAT THE SHERIFF KNEW:

Sheriff's investigators ran into a circle-the-wagons mentality when they questioned the staff about Nick's death. At one point, Detective M.C. Downing was losing his patience. He had been questioning Oscar Peru Jr., staff orientation lead, about what takes place at the camp and he got consistently similar answers.
Det. Downing: Mr. Peru, enough, OK? . . . you guys are driving me crazy. Every staff member I've talked [to] in here, they sugar coat everything. Do you see stupid on my forehead?
Peru: No, I don't.
Downing: All right. Let's get over this [expletive], OK? I'm tired of hearing the sugar coating. I basically know what goes on here. I was military . . . and you guys gonna sit here and tell me you're being polite? Ain't gonna happen. I know that, he knows that, everybody that has to deal with this place knows that . . .

Det. Downing: Something was wrong with him the last two weeks of his life.
Torres: I disagree with that, Det. Downing. [It was] his ruse to [get] out of the program, I don't feel [it] had anything to do with his health. I looked at it as his way to get out of the program. . . . His way of lying and making up, you know, a fictitious story.
Downing: Obviously there was a problem. He died.
Torres: Yes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2005, 12:31:00 AM »
PT, like hell.  This boy died! Daughter, you need to shut the f.... up!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2005, 12:56:00 AM »
Rest in Peace, Nick.  

Daughter, Go To Hell.

 :flame:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2005, 11:27:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 21:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Like DAUGHTER has said, OverLordd, these kids aren't there to have fun. They're there to serve a punishment. They're not "some poor kids" that are tortured under the "rule of torturous staff members" as you all believe. They are there because they have committed crimes and broken the law. People who work with these troubled teens have to break down their walls and relentless attitudes to reach these kids and turn their lives around. Wake up and see the truth. "

I thought that when you get "punished" you're supposed to LIVE through it so you learn a lesson...?

What did this child learn from being murdered.  I don't get it.  When you punish your kids, are they still alive when you're done with them?

I'd like to punish you, you sick fuck.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2005, 12:59:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 21:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Like DAUGHTER has said, OverLordd, these kids aren't there to have fun. They're there to serve a punishment. They're not "some poor kids" that are tortured under the "rule of torturous staff members" as you all believe. They are there because they have committed crimes and broken the law. People who work with these troubled teens have to break down their walls and relentless attitudes to reach these kids and turn their lives around. Wake up and see the truth. "



Whoa, what?! I've worked in programs for six years, and I can assure you that at the places I've worked, the purpose is never to punish anyone, or have them serve time. Most of the kids we serve have not broken the law, other than using drugs. And we certainly aren't trying to break down anything. I urge you to get more information on how these things work.

The perfect formula for failure with kids includes punishing them for things they can't change. The only thing you can do is offer them some opportunities to change what they do now and in the future.

Giving a student a consequence--which, by the way, consists of nothing more than a loss of points--has nothing to do with pounishing him or her for past "crimes." Admittedly, some of these kids have seriously annoying attitude, but the fact is, most of them end up in trouble because they're bright and creative, and just used it wrong. So let them keep the attitude (if we can define it as a state of mind demonstrated by a desire for autonomy and individuality). Just show them how they can make it work.  :razz:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2005, 05:43:00 PM »
August 1993
"BOOT CAMP" PROGRAMS

(On May 7, 1993, The Huntsville Times reported a nineteen year old boy died at a young adult "boot camp" in Alabama from heart failure during physical training. The following is a copy of a letter sent to President Bill Clinton on April 5, 1993. Mr. Burns urges all professionals to contact President Clinton on the matter of "Boot Camps" as a part of juvenile corrections.

(As we go to press, President Clinton has just announced his proposed Crime Bill which includes boot camps for juvenile offenders as a significant part of his proposal. - Lon)

President William J. Clinton
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20500

Dear President Clinton:

As a professional in the field of child and adolescent treatment, I am very concerned about administration considerations to expand utilization of "Boot Camp" programs within juvenile corrections. It appears this interest is growing more due to the potential economic and political benefits rather than the realization of their potential. In fact, I am aware of no reliable evidence which supports "Boot Camp" effectiveness, while I am aware of a considerable body of research which shows such approaches and techniques used by "Boot Camps" are, at best, ineffective and, at worst, harmful.

These programs rely on aggressive confrontation, harsh discipline, extreme physical exertion, and strict obedience to those with power. The basic beliefs are these methods will 1) "scare" these kids "straight" 2) improve self confidence and esteem (pride over having survived the experience) and 3) punish them for their criminal behavior. I think such programs certainly punish, but little else. In fact, it is highly likely such treatment increases the probability of antisocial behavior and decreases self confidence and self esteem. Reports on these programs reveal that as high as forty percent (40%) of the youth "wash out" and, that for those who finish, recidivism rates are the same as for those who complete the typical corrections program. Based on this information, one has to ask exactly what has been accomplished?

Also of importance is the question of humane and non-abusive care and treatment. Quite frankly, the harsh verbal and physical aspects of these programs would not be permitted by state licensing authorities in other child care, treatment or custodial facilities. I can tell you emphatically such practices would be regarded as abusive and actions would be taken against the facility. While we still have a long way to go in terms of providing quality treatment and rehabilitative care to youth in this country, I certainly think we should not regress to the point where we think that verbal abuse, mindless and/or extreme physical exertion, and humiliating consequences for rule infractions (i.e. wearing baby bottles around the neck) are suitable practices which produce positive results. Such an environment will generally only become more and more abusive. This was the case for the "Boot Camp" opened in Birmingham, Alabama. The camp was closed in 1992 after it became clear to external authorities that youth were being emotionally and physically abused by their "instructors". Unfortunately, I think this facility may recently have been allowed to reopen. From a child protection and civil rights viewpoint, such treatment is not compatible with our public policy and laws for the protection, care and treatment of children and adolescents.

[And to the several comments Daughter has made about these violent teen criminals who might harm 'innocents' like herself]

Finally, I wish to point out some of the characteristics of the youth most likely to be placed in these programs. First, these are not the hardened, dangerous, violent juvenile criminals. These are excluded from participation due to their offenses. The youth enrolled are those which have generally committed non-violent property crimes or drug offenses. The participants typically will come from economically and socially disadvantaged homes with histories of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. Educationally, they will be significantly behind with little or no usable job skills. Psychologically, many will show clear symptoms of a variety of diagnosable psychiatric disorders which are often the result of the brutal treatment they have already received in their young lives. Are these youth who will benefit from such a program? If anything, this experience is simply more of the same. I think many of these psychologically impaired youth will only be further damaged, traumatized and lost.

In closing, President Clinton, I want to urge you not to support or encourage the continued development of such programs. I and other professionals, I am sure, would gladly give of our time and expertise to provide assistance and consultation in this area. While we don't have all the answers about what works, we do know about some things which clearly do not work. "Boot Camps" do not work and cross the line between firm guidance and discipline to abuse.

Sincerely,

Christopher Burns, MA
Vice-President - Operations
Three Springs Treatment Programs.
Huntsville, Alabama
205-880-3339

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ews06.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OverLordd

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« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2005, 07:26:00 PM »
Quote
PT is not the worst thing in the world your ever going to do in a program OL.

Haha, I dont know TSW, its my personal view that PT sucks worse than getting shot at, but thats just me.  :grin:


Quote
They are there because they have committed crimes and broken the law.

And they did not have a fair trial. Ok... lets see. I say you broke the law, now I'm going order you to go to prison. It does not work that way does it? You would dislike that wouldent you? Because once I kidnapped you out of your home all bets would be off. Once I got you out in the middle of no where I could do anything I wanted to you, including abuse you as much as I fucking felt like. These children did not have a fair trial. So I will say they broke the law once they had a fair trial.

Quote
I encourage PT as a part of the over all routine.

I disagree, you accually have to want to do the Pt to get anything from it and enjoy it. I hate Pt, but I do it because I want to and I know it need to. These kids just grow up in their hate because people are making them do things they dont want to, and do things that hurt them.

Quote
Whoa, what?! I've worked in programs for six years, and I can assure you that at the places I've worked, the purpose is never to punish anyone, or have them serve time. Most of the kids we serve have not broken the law, other than using drugs. And we certainly aren't trying to break down anything. I urge you to get more information on how these things work.


Bam! haha! see first anon! second anon was right, thank you second anon. Oh and second anon, if your from WWASP I will hunt you down... thank you and have a nice day.  :grin:  
 :tup:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline DAUGHTER

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« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2005, 04:32:00 PM »
Quote

On 2005-09-29 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

I've worked in programs for six years, and I can assure you that at the places I've worked, the purpose is never to punish anyone, or have them serve time. Most of the kids we serve have not broken the law, other than using drugs. And we certainly aren't trying to break down anything. I urge you to get more information on how these things work.


So you've worked in programs for six years. That's all just great, but you have never worked in ABR, have you?? NO! More than 90% percent of those boys were sent there because they have committed crimes and broken the laws. So your experience elsewhere is irrelevant. Those are completely different programs and need a completely different approach and structure. I wouldn't handle a criminal delinquent the same way I would handle an anorexic teen. Your approach to these criminals have to be totally different.

Maybe the reason our country is so contaminated with all these juvenile delinguients is because these kids have parents such as yourselves that refuse to punish them. So talking to them is the only way they will learn from right and wrong?? NOT!! Sorry, I may be old fashioned, but I believe in spanking all the way--not beating my kids, but spanking. I would also take away things they like to do-TV, playing w/ friends, etc. Its simply called - consequences for your actions and learning from your mistkes.
I have come to realize that parents with the same mentality such as yours are the reason programs, such as ABR, exist. Your kids will never learn right from wrong and will have no direction or guidance in their lives. They will be rasied with the mentality that they can do whatever they want without having a consequence for their actions. (Well, they may get a talking to, but honestly, what will that ever teach them? What will they ever learn from that.) So I find it ironic you all bash these programs that fix the problems you all create. If stupid people just werent allowed to procreate then neither of us would have to sit here and agree over all this because it just simply wouldn't be an issue.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ring back good, successful programs, such as Arizona Boys Ranch!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2005, 04:44:00 PM »
DAUGHTER, treatment programs are for that purpose, "TREATMENT" not for punishment; and I do believe you have already been told to shut the f...K up!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2005, 04:49:00 PM »
Can you tell me exactly what Nick learned from being KILLED at this program? Just what little life lesson was he taught there you stupid, stupid woman?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2005, 06:05:00 PM »
Daughter, I think you have taken the TOUGHLOVE approach to discipline and turned it into a lifestyle.

Get help, lady ... and please, don't have kids.  You have a heart of stone.
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Offline DAUGHTER

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« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2005, 06:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-09-28 21:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"PT, like hell.  This boy died! Daughter, you need to shut the f.... up!"


And you all say that these staff members are cruel and mean. You all are advocates for medications and therapy and liberal approaches to dealing with these kids, yet the way you speak to INNOCENT citizens is dispicable. I wouldn't want my kids around any of you. I have never done anything except exercise my freedom of speech here. I haven't done anything wrong. If you don't like what I write--don't read it. Don't visit this forum and don't even waste your time. Telling me to go to hell-mature, real mature, and also VERY loving. I see exactly all your approach. You say what is politically correct but yet do whatever you want. You say you oppose these programs and facilities, but treat others worse than these staff members ever would and I haven't even committed a crime or done anything wrong here. And FYI, I am a born again Christian who works with under-privilidged children. I minister the word of God to these poor children in hopes that they will realize the love God has for them so they wouldn't make choices like these boys. So I will be in Heaven, not hell. I just have different opinions when it comes to consequences, and punishment for our nation's juvenile delinquients.

And to anonymous who posted the fabricated lies concerning Nic's death: consider where you received this "factual" information from--another anti-"boot camp" site. Each one of you have an agenda and aren't willing to post the truth if it goes against your opinions. This is called being biased. The police report isn't biased, and more than half of the things you stated in your little article aren't even mentioned in the police report. Show me an article that isn't loaded with fabriacted and exaggerated lies spread by these biased websites. Maybe then you'll have a convincing arguement. And remember, I used to live on these ranches and no such "Sandroom" exists. LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, and what do you know--so more LIES!! Is that the highlight of your pathetic lives?? Making up crap about facilities which are trying to correct this issue in our nation must be the highlight of you paethtic lives. I have since spoken with more employees and ranchers who all back up my story. No one was hit in their face with a shovel or thrown around rooms. Staff never timed bathroom trips or showers. Nic was never ordered to eat in the bathroom or carry a bucket w/ his clothes around, or drop his pants. This just shows how pathetic your lives truely are.
Love always,
"Boot-Camp Fanatic"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ring back good, successful programs, such as Arizona Boys Ranch!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2005, 06:55:00 PM »
How dare you call this dead child "Nic"...this boy DIED in that abusive program. Go preach your "Born Again" BS to someone who cares, lady. And may God have mercy on your children, if you have any!
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Offline DAUGHTER

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« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2005, 06:58:00 PM »
Like I said, you all treat people (innocent people, at that) horribly. You tell me that these delinquients should be treated with more respect than the way you treat me. I have never told you to "shut the F...K up!!" or "go to hell". Thats just down-right rude. I have never done anything to you exept exercise my freedom here just like you. Treat me with at least the same respect you would give these criminals. You may not like me, but you can at least me civil and respectful. (This is a valuable lesson I learned while growing up at military bases and at ABR. -- oh wow, another positive thing)If you (the anonymous who has posted such hateful replies) has Jesus is your life, you sure don't show it. If you don't have Him in your life, you really should. He helps take away such hatred and anger.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
ring back good, successful programs, such as Arizona Boys Ranch!!
\"DAUGHTER\"