rma 90-93

[Anonymous]

Off topic, but... God, I miss Boston! I lived in Brookline for awhile, which I loved, right on Beacon Street by Coolidge Corner.  Then, I lived in the North End, which I also loved... reminded me of being in Europe... everyone spoke Italian, Italian families owned all the little shops, cafes, and laundromats... I could walk down to the harbor... and go to the open market... and, it was the safest place for a woman to live because the mob let NOTHING go down in their own 'hood.  I miss it.  Man, I miss it. Always something to do.

[mad]

Boston has been a very good place for me to finish growing up. I moved here from Los Angeles when I was 21 and had yet another falling out with my family.  I'm from LA, and somewhat strangely to me, I am rapidly approaching being in Boston for as long as I lived in LA.  I can't belive that I am old enough for that to be true! Boston is a very nice "small city.  Lots of culture, people tend to be over educated and politically involved, two things I have come to value, and I do also like the seasons.

Best, M

[Anonymous]

'90-'93... I was there for parts of those years (RMA> SUWS> RMA> SUWS> Amity... Weeew.)

That was so long ago, I don't even sort of remember what PG...

Spent a lot of Full time though... :wink:

-ERH

[SolidBlues]

i was in pg 40 with kim nicole greg brian forgot whom else.

lived in boston for 10 yrs also.  love that place and miss it now.
i'm in north carolina now for a job, not by choice, but making the best of it.

good to see a post about this era in RMA, I don't see much of it.


.[ This Message was edited by: SolidBlues on 2006-05-13 18:03 ]

[jbadams669]

What's up with everybody being so secretive with who they are??  lol

This is Justin Adams, I was in PG 39 from 90-92.  I would LOVE to hear how some of you people are doing these days.  I live in Florida now with my wife of 2 years and things are going well (except that I got a DUI recently, stupid but I'm doing what I need to do to get through it now).  

I saw Amber Hawkins this weekend, she lives near me in Sarasota, so that's why I started thinking about all of the old RMA days and found this site.  I don't have any real negative feelings about the place, although from what I've heard things went really downhill in the last 10 years (actually, I think it started while i was there).  Of course, I had plenty of my own problems after i got out of there, but I do think that i learned how to deal with things better from RMA.  

Anyway, that's enough for now.  Again, I am really interested in finding out how everyone's doing.  I checked out Classmates, but that site sucks.  Maybe better luck here?  If anyone wants to email me I am at jabaaa123@yahoo.com.  

Oh yeah, and I've been going by my middle name (Brent) for about 12 years now.  Hope to hear from y'all!

[ERH]

Hey Justin! I'm so glad that you seem to be doing well (aside from the DUI, which sucks. Amazingly, I've not had one... knock*3) I emil occassionally with Kirsten, she and Amber have been in touch quite a bit and it seems Amber is also doing well.  It's amazing how, as long ago as that all was, and despite the relatively short time I was there, how well I seem to remember people... And miss them. Is it weird that there are times that I even miss the whole experience?
I have been back in Michigan for about 10 years (went to Amity and then college in Boston after that)  and have never appreciated my family quite as much.  I got married a year and a half ago and we live next door to my husband's brother and his wife. I'm very lucky to have such wonderful in laws, my sister in law in particular is amazing...  We have similar interests and she is almost ten years older, a very strong, intelligent woman from whom I learn so much everyday.  
I think we all went through problems adjusting after our respective experiences but, I really feel that I wouldn't have the life I have were it not for those experiences.  My husband spent a long time being angry at my parents, and confused about it all, so hard to explain to people who have not shared those situations....  However, he has learned, as I did, to appreciate the good and move on.  I admit I am saddened by the stories of those who had much harsher experiences...
Enough for now, I would love to hear more about your life, how you adjusted and what you have found...
 
Elanah Nachman Hunger

[mad]

Hey Brent and Elanah,

This is Mark.  I was there at the same time as you, peer group 43, I think.  It is nice to know that you have both landed on your feet and are doing well in your respective lives.  I make my home in Boston with my partner and dog, earning my living as a psychotherapist in a local outpatient clinic.  While I too reflect on my experience there as much more helpful than not, I do try and control who I tell about my time there (hence no last name).

I am in periodic contact with Nick, Brit, and Jennifer and Jessica P.  The last time I saw anyone was 2 years ago when I was visiting with family in California. A group of us met for lunch and everyone was doing pretty well on their respective paths. It was fun for me and surreal for my partner.  He is freaked by tales of RMA and knows surprisingly little about it.

Vickie Jones literally ran into me last summer.  It was an odd moment.  As she passed me on the street I recognized the back of her head and called out "Vickie."  We had coffee and caught up, it was nice but odd to run into each other 2,000 miles from Idaho.

Feel free to drop me a line.

Best, M

[jbadams669]

Hey to both of you!  Elanah,I think our mom's have talked a couple of times over the years.  Glad to hear you're doing well also.  And Mark, of course I remember you.  I saw a few other posts you wrote, and was interested to hear that you became a psychotherapist.  I received my Bachelor's in pyschology and had a few different jobs in the field, the last of which was a counselor at Mt. Bachelor Acedemy in Oregon.  That pretty much did me in on the whole psychology thing, and I went into business after that and got my MBA.  

Anyway, I recently found this site and I don't know how to send individual emails to people--if you know how, go ahead and shoot me an email & we can exchange contact info.  I'd love to hear how you're doing, Elanah.  Hope to hear from you both!

J

[Anonymous]

As a licensed therapist, how could you condone CEDU style "therapy" of humiliation, experimental mind fucking techniques used in propheets, children unrestrained in the emotional bullying of other children, staff crossing boundaries and transferring their own personal issues on us, the lack of proper treatment/diagnoses when needed, rampant coersion and badgering to force kids to admit things that ranged just as much on the side of the things they didn't do as things they did do...  Is verbal, psychological, and emotional abuse really the ticket to fixing kids?  To say nothing of substandard academics that were falsely relayed as genuine.

What exactly were the benefits and helpful tools of the program, Mad?

[Anonymous]

i believe that was a decisive list of reasonable assertions, and would like to see an ariticulate reply.

[jbadams669]

I'll try to answer that...

First of all, I understand that some people had much worse experiences than others at the CEDU schools.  However, there were many changes over the years, and it seems to me that things became progressively worse over time--from what I've read and heard.  I would also guess that people's experiences are going to be different depending on which school they went to, which staff ran their lives, etc.  

I think that many people on this site make the assumption that just because they hated the place, or they had some bad shit happen, or whatever the case may be, that there were absolutely no redeeming qualities about any of the schools at any time for anybody who ever attended.  Quite frankly that's bullshit.  I've seen threads on here where someone will say that they felt that CEDU "saved their life" and people jump all over them for it.  Hey, if it helped some people, let them feel that way and mind your own business.

I would also say that a lot of the threads I've read have been--to say the least--whiney as hell.  I do believe that some people might have had some poor and totally unprofessional treatment occur, but for the most part I see a lot of bitching about how you got put on bans, or couldn't talk about music, or had to do work details, or whatever.  Hey--GET OVER IT!!  The place is closed, you're not there anymore, and unless you were really, honestly abused in a way that a court of law would recognize as abuse, shut the fuck up already!

On top of that, why can't you recognize that maybe some people are better off for having gone there??  For myself, I can't say that I loved the place, and I had more than my share of problems after I left RMA, but I can say without a doubt several things:

1.  I learned what true friendship meant.  Prior to RMA my friendships were completely full of shit and nobody had loyalty to anyone.  I tend to think that it was because I had no idea how to be a real friend or how to expect a "friend" to act.  That's something that has had a tremendous impact on my life.

2.  I learned how to recognize my problems and deal with them.  As I said, that doesn't mean I don't have them anymore, but I did learn how to take care of the shit that I need to without having to hit bottom before I got motivated to do something.

3.  I learned how to communicate more effectively with others.  Prior to RMA I would argue about whether or not the sky was blue.  Now I pick my battles, and I say what I need to say to the people in my life when it needs to be said.  I know for a fact that my marriage would not be nearly as strong as it is today because of what I learned at RMA.

4.  Finally, I gained TRUE self esteem--not to be confused with the cockiness that so many people seem to think is self esteem.  I see people every day that act as if their shit smells like roses and their the coolest fucker on the planet, but I can also see past that and I know that in reality they haven't got a clue.  

So, all that being said, I did gain a lot from RMA.  I hated being there, and I couldn't wait to get the hell out, but I can't deny that I'm a better person for it.  Sure, the rules sucked, Idaho sucked, and it didn't work for everyone.  And I believe that there are some people who have pretty legitimate gripes against some of the staff (Caroline Wolf comes to mind).  But again, YOU'RE NOT THERE ANYMORE!  Move on with your life already!  And if you can figure out the good things that you got from your experience (even if it's just a few) than remember those rather than being a bitter, pissed-off victim.

Off my soap box I get....

[Anonymous]

This isn't about not being there anymore; it's not even about how good or bad you are doing now, or how much it sucked to be there.  

It's about being isolated in a place that used SYSTEMIC techniques that were abusive, manipulative, underhanded, and unaccredited.  It's about pyschological manipulation--and not the "good" kind.

Point by point:

1. Most people I talk to, no matter how successful they have become, say that these programs actually inhibit REAL friendships because the programs teach you to judge people in black and white, and accept people on limited terms. In addition, it teaches you to verbally abuse, bully, humiliate and spy on your "friends." And frankly, I think you can be your "brother's keeper" without resorting to these tactics.  I know many, many people from various programs who say that their experiences being emotionally badgered and exploited feel a certain detachment from people that make it difficult to form deep friendships later.

2. Recognize your problems? Boy, were you lucky! Because let me tell you, I hear the EXACT opposite from most people in a wide variety of these programs.  For the reasons I mentioned. Usually, the root of the problem is overlooked in favor of some easy target the staff badgers you with.  I know of way, way, WAY too many students who were coerced into admitting things that either never happened, or were greatly exaggerarted.  I also know of many stundets who had medical issues that were dangerously ignored.  And my own personal experience was of staff blatantly lying, exaggerating or transferring their own issues. That is why I NEVER respected the therapeutic value of the program. Also: fucked up students should not be administering therapy on eachother....  And it is a BASIC tenet of therapeutic boundaries that staff don't regale students with tales of fucking animals and raping girls, and rubbing shit all over themselves.  Frankly, you couldn't just have a problem with depression, you had to have some crazy bullshit story to earn CEDU's equivalent of street cred. The more you cried about what a big slut (Or fill in the blank) you were, the better.  No, I don't think CEDU was qualified to help you ID problems. I think they created problems and ignored others and it doesn't matter if they actually were on target once in awhile if the methodology is not only flawed, but damaging.  I know people who lived for YEARS after CEDU buying into a label they realized was never accurate to begin with, and now they have to figure out the real shit.

3.  Hell, the idea that you learned how to communicate effectively at CEDU is just laughable. What? Yelling, putting people down, bararging, badgering, swearing at, haranguing, and humiliating is effective communication?

This was also a systemic issue at CEDU.

4. Hey, man, congrats to you for having good self esteem. I have no idea where that originates from, but I don't buy CEDU as its purveyor. CEDU was a place that used shaming, whether deserved or not, as one of its primary tools for modification.  And it wasn't the kind of shaming that turns around bad self esteem. In fact, shame was mastered to an art form at CEDU--something to revel in and visit upon others.

Honestly, I just don't see how you can defend CEDU as a therapeutically sound environment.

[jbadams669]

Well, I appreciate your response, and I can see how some people may feel that way.  However, POINT-BY-POINT:

1.  I developed extremely strong friendships while I was at RMA that were completely void of any judgements or "terms".  That is in stark contrast to the friendships I had before where my "friends" were the cause of more problems than they helped me with.  I couldn't EVER share actual feelings with someone in high school (I'm sure that would quickly get you labeled "fag" or something along those lines).  Furthermore, while I can't speak for anyone other than myself, I NEVER verbally abuses, bullied, humiliated, or spied on my friends.  I have no doubt that there were those who did those kinds of things, but I can honestly say I wasn't one of them--which is probably why I can also say that my friendships were as strong as they were.  

2.  As to your third sentence of this paragraph, a word of advice:  stick to what you know from your own experiences rather than basing your beliefs on what someone else is telling you.  But to answer your points, I can agree with some and disagree with others.  There were definitely some staff who were way more fucked up than any of the students and probably shouldn't have been let within a mile of any school, let alone act as counselors.  On the other hand (and I hope you can at least admit this), there were some other staff that honestly and truly cared very deeply about the students, and it was from them that I took what I could.  The others I pretty much ignored as much as possible.  I never had a staff regale me with stories of fucking animals or raping girls or rubbing shit all over themselves, so I can't really respond to that one.  I can tell you that I have a degree in psychology, and I know plenty about "basic tenets of therapy".  

I agree that many students probably felt that they needed to make up or exaggerate their past.  I don't agree that they all did that for the same reasons.  Some did it to "fit it".  Some for acceptance, as weird as that sounds.  Others to get the staff off their backs.  And some people really DID have that much fucked up shit in their past that you can't help but think, "this guy's GOTTA be making this up".  That doesn't mean it wasn't true.  For my part, I had issues that I had no idea how they had impacted me until I took an honest look at them MYSELF, not because I was trying to look good for the staff.  And when I did, I realized how those things had affected me for years without knowing it.  This wasn't the staff telling me this, this is what I found out for myself.  

As for those who are still living with some label years later, I truly feel sorry for them.  Whether that's the program's fault or their own for holding onto it, I can't say.  And I really don't think you can, either.

3.  See point #1 above:  I really don't feel that I ever participated in putting people down, badgering, swearing at, haranguing, and humiliating others.  I'm certainly not going to try to tell you that it didn't happen--but then again, that goes on at every single school across the country every day, doesn't it?  You ever see high school (or even worse, middle school) kids today???  You think the treament at CEDU is bad?  Are you serious?  

But to answer your point, yes, I did learn to communicate better.  

4.  I felt no shame, so I don't really have much to say about this one.


Now, I want to make one thing abundantly clear:  I'm not on here to defend CEDU or the staff or any of the things that went on at the schools.  As I said in my last post, I think it seems obvious that the place started to get pretty fucked up.  What I am saying is that it's a pretty poor argument to cover ALL of the staff, ALL of the students, and ALL of the schools with blanket statements.  It's clear to me that some people did not benefit from their experiences there (but again, I wonder how much better they'd fare at some of the public schools I've seen).  But I think it's very closed-minded to not be able to accept that there were many others who were able to get something positive.  Again, I'm not "Mr. CEDU" here.  I had lots of disagreements with the way some things were handled and some of the ridiculous rules, and numerous other things that I could talk about.  However, I choose to not dwell on that shit.  Why would I want to go through my life thinking about negative crap that really isn't important anymore?  As with anything in life, take what from it what you can and what can make you a stronger, better person, and forget about the rest.  It really is that simple.

[Anonymous]

If what you say is true then you must have had a strong psychological foundation when you went in, in spite of how unideal things may not have been for you in your high school.  It is entirely possible that all you credit to CEDU would have developed naturally over time as you matured even in a non-CEDU environment.  It is also possible that you may need to credit CEDU so as not feel the loss of the years you spent there.  I don't know, it is just a thought.  There were many who did not have your psychological strength and were damaged by the experience.  You don't just "get over it" and get on with it in this case.  And it is not really about pouting over "bans" and not being able to listen to certain music, you know that.  Since you are so convinced that it helped you would you mind sharing specifics?  I am very interested in hearing which CEDU thing helped you to do what and why rather than generalities.

[Anonymous]

I guess we will agree to disagree.  After years of studying the topic in graduate school and speaking with many others, my problem with CEDU is  NOT what happened to me (to be honest, I did my best to just blend in and stay in agreement)but what happened to so many others. Moreover, I KNOW from participating and attending that the program was SYSTEMICALLY unethical, whether YOU came out okay or not.

And frankly, I don't know anyone who did not participate in the bullying and verbal assault on others.  It was painful for me to watch the way other students were hounded by this mob mentality.

I'm not here whining about manual labor or bans: notice I didn't even mention those, or other bits of minutiae.  I'm more concerned with the bigger issues and that other kids are still subjected to unsound psychological programs TODAY.

This isn't about taking the best and leaving the rest--it's not about my experience per se, because I've already integrated it into my life. I'm much more concerned with the fact that these programs exist today unregulated and unchecked.  

When I read your list, especially the point about the lack of verbal abuse and barrage, and healthy communication techniques, I was floored, because the school was about anything but that.

As far as caring staff: of course, there were some caring staff.  But I can't tell you how many of them seeemd to be attracted to CEDU's cult like environment hoping some of that Lifesprings bullshit would rub off on them.  And I certainly didn't need to hear their personal stories in technicolor detail. Staff to me were either newbies being hazed in a way by older staff members, and really were looking for a fix themselves, or vets, who enjoyed the power of dispensing Kool Aid and watching you drink.  In any event, the caring staff who hadn't yet been corrupted were a haven to me, so yes, of course, I appreciate them.

As far as the place starting to get fucked up... Well, it already was when I was there. (And if you knew the history of CEDU, I don't think you would be so quick to embrace it.)I'm sorry, I just could never condone the types of tactics used by CEDU, along with their outright manipulation and lies to parents.