Carlbrook

[Troll Control]

DJ- I continue to be amazed at your anger and hostility. Why is it so hard for you to admit that not every kid is harmed beyond redemption by the upper-tier programs such as Carlbrook?

Your anger/hostility meter needs a calibration.  I'm a flat affect kinda guy.

I never said that every kid is harmed.  What I said is that programs like Carlbrook do more harm than good.  That is a proven fact.  If you have valid research that shows otherwise, I'd be glad to read it.

And you're wrong when you say that there are not violent kids or sexual predators there.  Just read the accounts of the kids that went there.  I'm sure the facility tells you that they don't take these types of kids, but it's simply not true.  How do you explain the fact that they take court-mandated kids?  If they're mandated, you can bet it wasn't for poor grades or "underachieving."

I'm continually shocked and amazed at the lengths to which you people will go to defend a program you've never been in, that has no basis in accepted mental health practice, that uses behavior modification (abundantly proven not to work) and LGAT workshops (proven harmful, especially to developing minds).

You're the sick ones.  You sent your kids there.  I just pointed it out and people like you hate being exposed for exactly what you are: parental failures.  You should be taking issue with yourself and your peers, not me.  Decades of research and applied theory support my point of view, not yours.  You seek "treatment" for your kid that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be damaging.

[Anonymous]

I must have missed the post where someone who attended Carlbrook said there were violent felons and sexual predators there.
There was one staff member with some issues who was fired as soon as they came to light. He was actually a highly degreed therapist.
I admit I failed in many ways as a parent. My kid would agree.  Sending him to Carlbrook was not one of the ways.  In ways perhaps unique to him, it saved his educational future and got him back on track. He hated Carlbrook and didn't buy into much of the therapy.  ALL of the kids in his group were from middle to upper class families and had issues ranging from substance abuse to promiscuity. Most were decent to strong students. None had been convicted of a crime. None had been in RTC prior to Carlbrook.  All had attended wilderness and all but one or two felt positive about wilderness.  So-where is all this abuse and harm?
Some kids come out of Carlbrook and go back to substance abuse.  Some bomb out in college.  Some get arrested.  Many do just fine. Some, like my son, go on to top colleges.  So-excuse me if I don't buy your crap.

[Deborah]

***ALL of the kids in his group were from middle to upper class families and had issues ranging from substance abuse to promiscuity. Most were decent to strong students. None had been convicted of a crime. None had been in RTC prior to Carlbrook. All had attended wilderness and all but one or two felt positive about wilderness. So-where is all this abuse and harm?

How would a 'parent' be privy to all this inside information unless you read each kid's file and 'treatment' notes? How do you know that all but 1 or 2 felt positive about wilderness?

[Anonymous]

The groups were small and the parents all got to know each other pretty well. There were a number of parent-group seminars and lots of time to talk. In addition, my son filled me in on the backgrounds of the kids.  Carlbrook is quite clear on what type of kids they will take.  It really has the feel of a small prep school.  Grant Price is very protective of the place and has final say on who gets to attend.
There are just over 100 kids there at a time. We had parent email lists (discouraged by the school but organized by parents). It wasn't all that hard to learn about the other families.

[Troll Control]

Some bomb out in college. Some get arrested. Many do just fine. Some, like my son, go on to top colleges. So-excuse me if I don't buy your crap.

Exactly the same outcome they would have had without going to Carlbrook.  Thank you for agreeing with me.

It's not my crap.  It's your crap.  You paid an egregious sum of money to get the same results as rolling the dice.  Nice job.

[Anonymous]

"Exactly the same outcome they would have had without going to Carlbrook."

If they weren't at Carlbrook, where were they going to be?  Your feeble little brain is having trouble grasping the fact that these kids had exhausted the educational and societal resources in their communities. They were on the verge of arrest or serious harm to themselves and others.  Living at home where they were stealing, displaying violent behavior and getting kicked out of schools was not possible. Carlbrook was a safety net for these kids. And- it worked.  You can not document your claim that the results with any given kid would have been the same without Carlbrook. Remember- being there gave them a year to 15 months to mature and decide how they wanted to live their lives.  Whether or not the program impacted them meaningfully, the maturation can not be denied.  
Getting it yet, DJ?

[Troll Control]

Hey Dummy, I get your argument.  The problem is that your points aren't valid.

You yourself said that AFTER Carlbrook many kids bomb out, go to jail, etc.  My point is that if they were left alone and not sent to Carlbrook, many would do fine, a few would go to top colleges and many would fail.  EXACTLY the same result.

Again, dummy, I have years of clinical research that says this is the case.  Show me JUST ONE clinical study that shows TBS's improve a child's chances of success.  JUST ONE and I'll concede the point.  

The problem here is that you (notably uneducated and lacking the cognitive resources to engage in this debate) choose not to accept facts that have been long and well established.  That's on you.  You're not smart enough to grasp reality.  I'm not going to be able to assist you with this little problem.  You might read "The Art of Missing the Point: When You Can't Afford to Catch On."

[Anonymous]

I'm continually shocked and amazed at the lengths to which you people will go to defend a program you've never been in,

That says it all right there. In what other context are people so darn defensive? Think about it.

[Anonymous]

But if they aren't at Carlbrook, where are they? On the streets? If so, the results are NOT going to be very good.  What you are missing here is that Leaving Them Alone is NOT an option. They are minors and the parents are responsible for them.  They can not remain in the home because of their behavior.
The choices are extremely limited.  Some action has to be taken by the families.  If you are fortunate enough to be able to afford Carlbrook, great.  If not, the kid goes to a sub-par treatment center or juvie.  Regular boarding school?  Oh, wait! These kids have already been kicked out!

[Anonymous]

My point is that if they were left alone and not sent to Carlbrook, many would do fine, a few would go to top colleges and many would fail. EXACTLY the same result.

These type of programs drive a lot of kids - who had relatively minor problems to begin with - much deeper into whatever psychological or drug problems they had before entering. Listening to this parent saying 'it's about as good as not doing anything' is very telling. Why not just say what it is? Wharehousing teens. See? I did it, it's not that hard. If these people were truly interested in HELPING these kids, they easily could. Instead, they make excuses, and claim the wharehousing itself is therapy. Then spend years after the fact defending that decision to strangers online.

You know how it goes... watch what they do, not what they say.

[Anonymous]

Some action has to be taken by the families. If you are un-fortunate enough to be able to afford Carlbrook, the kid goes to a sub-par treatment center.

Fixed it for you.

[Troll Control]

But if they aren't at Carlbrook, where are they? On the streets? If so, the results are NOT going to be very good. What you are missing here is that Leaving Them Alone is NOT an option.

You keep telling yourself that.  You have a strong need to defend your behavior and your precious program.  That's your business.

I've been involved with this type of business for far longer than you, dummy.  I have vast experience where you have none.  I am a degreed mental health professional, you are quite obviously not.

I post online to bring a level of consciousness to many brain-dead parents like yourself.  Wheteher or not you want to admit it, you dumped your kid in a warehouse so you wouldn't be bothered with rearing him (hey, you did a lousy job of it, why not just quit altogether?).  

If your kid truly had the level of disturbance you described, he would belong in a locked mental hospital, not a TBS.  It is obvious that your inherent need to keep justifying your behavior means that it simply isn't justifiable.  If it were, you'd be content and happy with your decision.  You wouldn't spend hours and hours trolling message boards trying to justify yourself to strangers.

[Anonymous]

I don't feel the need to justify anything.  I am not a mental health professional, but I AM a parent.  That gives me a lot of insight that you don't have. I did a terrible job of parenting my kid in many respects. Some of his issues had nothing to do with his parenting.  As a parent, I was unable to do many things without turning to outside help. I couldn't treat his strept throat, torn ACL or impacted wisdom teeth. I had to take him to doctors and dentists. When it became clear that I could no longer help him with his emotional issues, AND after all local resources were exhausted, I sent him to wilderness.
If my son acknowledges that we had no choice but to send him away, why is it so hard for YOU to accept it?  As a trained mental health professional (scarey thought), you might examine what bothers you so much about the fact that some of these kids go through programs, are not mis-treated or abused, and come out just fine.
Didn't you read the letter Rico Moreno wrote?  It was posted somewhere on this thread, I think.

[Troll Control]

they were stealing, displaying violent behavior and getting kicked out of schools

and

Carlbrook is quite clear on what type of kids they will take. It really has the feel of a small prep school. Grant Price is very protective of the place and has final say on who gets to attend.

Yeah, they're quite clear on who they take: violent, thieving hooligans.  I can see how it is viewed as a prep school now.  Thanks for explaining that so clearly.   :roll:

So which is it?  A clean-cut prep school with only the best and brightest attending?  Or an unaccredited, unlicensed RTC warehousing violent, thieving thugs?

The answer seems to be "whatever is convenient."  If one of these brain-dead parents is praising Carlbrook, then it is a prep school.  If they are saying how their kid was so out of control he needed to be locked up (demonizing their child), then it is a kiddie jail.  Carlbrook is all things to all people.  Just ask their marketing department.

[Troll Control]

I did a terrible job of parenting my kid

I guess an admission like this is the first step, but you've got a long way to go.

And BTW, what do you expect your kid to say?  "Carlbrook was fucked up and I just faked my way through it"?  

He's not as dumb as you think.  He knows his ass will be kidnapped in the middle of the night and be headed right back for another two years of living hell.  He'd have to be an idiot to talk honestly or openly with you ever again.  It is guaranteed to have disasterous results.