Carlbrook

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-06 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You know what the methods used are, and you don't agree with them!  Why should anyone engage in the same useless dialogue with you.

What works is the peer support, the counseling and mentoring by an excellent (with a few exceptions) staff, the workshops and the emphasis on self-respect and honesty.  What also works are clear consequences for violation of rules.  It is a simple system, but it works."

You say it works.  That is a statement borne of ignorance and wishful thinking.

Kindly cite ANY clinical research that shows a BM program works.  Show JUST ONE and I'll concede the point (although Niles probably won't).  Show the research.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe in clinical research. The anon poster summed it up really well. End of story.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-06 14:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't believe in clinical research. The anon poster summed it up really well. End of story. "

Allow me to re-synopsize your position for you:

"I'm an idiot."

or

"I prefer experimental or knowingly harmful treatment for my kid."

or

"I shelled out all that cash and I'm so deeply invested that no matter what clinical research shows I reject it out-of-hand."

With your level of rational thought, it's no wonder they roped your stupid ass in with a shiny brochure and a wink.

[Anonymous]

It is a simple system, but it works.

WRONG. Try again.

[Anonymous]

It works for many kids- not all.  This is the research- the kids who have been through th eprogram!

[Nihilanthic]

On 2006-02-06 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You know what the methods used are, and you don't agree with them!  Why should anyone engage in the same useless dialogue with you.

What works is the peer support, the counseling and mentoring by an excellent (with a few exceptions) staff, the workshops and the emphasis on self-respect and honesty.  What also works are clear consequences for violation of rules.  It is a simple system, but it works."

Oh, I do! I do know!

Do you? Could you even BEGIN to explain what they are?  :roll:

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)

[Helena Handbasket]

... Ex program kids, think of it this way:  you have a cute, but stupid puppy.  The damn thing runs out into traffic every chance it gets.  It's going to get killed.  First you fence in the back yard.  Puppy digs under the fence and is out in traffic again.  You rescue him in the nick of time, and put him back in the fenced yard, and this time he's tied to a tree.  Puppy is safe, puppy hates it, and you feel like you did the best you could, but you still feel like shit.  You hurt whenever you see poor puppy out in the yard.  You wish he could run loose, and stay out of trouble.  

Woman, I'd hate to be your dog.  Never even allowed in the house, much less given proper guidance?  Why don't you even mention "house" or "home" in your analogy?

Probably because you consider your dwelling YOUR home .  Not the pup's home, not the kid's home.  It's YOURS all yours , and be damned anyone who crosses you, for a nervous piddle on the $8,000 Persian rug is as distasteful to you as the faint smell of cigarettes in the newly wallpapered room, and deserves to be punished to the fullest extent.

I feel a little better that my kid says he was helped by wilderness and Carlbrook, but it still hurts.  I tried to think about what I'd do if a time machine took us back four years, but I don't have an answer for you.  It still hurts.    "

Oh look, here comes the martyrdom.

Of course your kid says it helped.  Dare he not challenge the Throne of the Home who put him in the place where the only escape was to acquiesce... so he could get... back... home.  

You make me sick.

Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/remon.html' target='_new'>James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

[Anonymous]

On 2006-02-06 20:30:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

"

... Ex program kids, think of it this way:  you have a cute, but stupid puppy.  The damn thing runs out into traffic every chance it gets.  It's going to get killed.  First you fence in the back yard.  Puppy digs under the fence and is out in traffic again.  You rescue him in the nick of time, and put him back in the fenced yard, and this time he's tied to a tree.  Puppy is safe, puppy hates it, and you feel like you did the best you could, but you still feel like shit.  You hurt whenever you see poor puppy out in the yard.  You wish he could run loose, and stay out of trouble.  

Woman, I'd hate to be your dog.  Never even allowed in the house, much less given proper guidance?  Why don't you even mention "house" or "home" in your analogy?



Probably because you consider your dwelling YOUR home .  Not the pup's home, not the kid's home.  It's YOURS all yours , and be damned anyone who crosses you, for a nervous piddle on the $8,000 Persian rug is as distasteful to you as the faint smell of cigarettes in the newly wallpapered room, and deserves to be punished to the fullest extent.

I feel a little better that my kid says he was helped by wilderness and Carlbrook, but it still hurts.  I tried to think about what I'd do if a time machine took us back four years, but I don't have an answer for you.  It still hurts.    "

Oh look, here comes the martyrdom.



Of course your kid says it helped.  Dare he not challenge the Throne of the Home who put him in the place where the only escape was to acquiesce... so he could get... back... home.  



You make me sick.

Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/remon.html' target='_new'>James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"

well said

[Anonymous]

Oh look, here comes the martyrdom.

 :nworthy:

[Carlbrook Graduate]

To the parent who sent me a PM- please send your e-mail again, I did know your son.  To the other person who went to Carlbrook on this forum- I don't know how you could've sat through a group and call that peer support.  15 people all yelling at their best friends about how their life is going downhill because they repeatedly don't tuck in their shirt.  Somehow this is brought up as a symptom of the greater problem, a teenager's non-conformity with a belief system that they just don't happen to believe in.  Having your best friends take your most personal things and throw them out at you in front of 15 people is supportive?  Getting yelled at more because of the simple fact that you don't feel like crying?  I witnessed that bullshit as well as being involved in it.  If you have a problem with someone or something that they're doing, how about you be the strong individual that Carlbrook speaks so much about and confront the person yourself?  When I even said something discounting the crazed group mentality, the bite of the beast would turn on me.  They would ask why I was so defiant, why I wasn't helping them "rail" this person, how I obviously didn't care.  Tough Love?  I'm sorry, I didn't know that you show love to people by betraying their trust.  I wasn't aware that saying the most fucked up things you could ever say to somebody shows that you love them that much more.  Any of you readers who have never experienced a Group Therapy session, I suggest you read Ken Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest.  It's about as accurate a representation as you will ever find on how ridiculous these sessions are.  Under the guise of creating a stronger individual, they strip you of your individuality, making you conform to what they want.  Start thinking for yourself and stop repeating the mantras that have been embedded in your heads.  You work harder to sell the institution than they do.  Who are you trying to prove that it's good to?  Why do you care what a bunch of people on a message board that's mostly anti-RTC have to say?  If you don't weigh both sides of the equation, you can't give an honest opinion.[ This Message was edited by: Carlbrook Graduate on 2006-02-07 04:00 ]

[Troll Control]

I wasn't aware that saying the most fucked up things you could ever say to somebody shows that you love them

Boy, you hit it right on the head.  Spot on.

What people need to understand is that the "group therapy" provided at Carlbrook, like all BM centers, is punitive, not therapeutic.  It is merely an extension of the culture of punishment.  It has been shown time and time again by numerous clinical studies and anecdotal accounts that IT DOES NOT WORK and it's never going to.

I can't believe how incredibly stupid some people are to buy into this complete and utter "therapy" scam.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-02-06 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It works for many kids- not all.  This is the research- the kids who have been through th eprogram! "

This is BS.  The percentage of kids who were "helped" by this type of program happens to be the exact same percentage as random chance.  That is, if you did NOTHING your kid would have the same chance of success as if you sent him to a program.  Educate yourself to the facts before you try to have an argument with anyone who has a grasp of reality.  

You're bringing a knife to a gunfight, slick.

[hogheaven]

"That is, if you did NOTHING your kid would have the same chance of success as if you sent him to a program"

That could be, but the fact remains that some kids get to a point where they can't live in the home or in the community. After a couple wrecked cars, school dismissals, violence towards family members, wilderness and TBS allow the kid and family to be safe while some maturity is gained.  If some therapeutic progress is made,all the better.

[Troll Control]

wilderness and TBS allow the kid and family to be safe while some maturity is gained.

You can't be serious.  

Firstly, there is nothing "safe" about exposing your child to a peer-culture of delinquents.  All relevent data show that juvenile delinquency is enhanced by placing children in RTC environments, i.e. they usually exacerbate the presentling problem.

Secondly, children often become victims of crime or abuse in facilities where they are warehoused with serious offenders (violent felony offenders, sexual predators, sociopaths, etc) of which Carlbrook certainly has its share.  Or they learn new maladaptive behaviors from these peers.

Thirdly, BM programs and LGAT workshops are both proven methods of inducing regression.  They are well known to stifle the maturation process.

Maybe you should try to stick to some things you actually understand in your discussions.  It is crystal clear that you have no idea about what you speak.

[Anonymous]

If you are trying to describe Carlbrook in that post, DJ, it is YOU who have no idea what you are talking about.  Carlbrook takes a very limited type of kid- and that does NOT include sexual predators or violent felons.  My kid was exposing himself to a peer culture of delinquents at home!
DJ- I continue to be amazed at your anger and hostility. Why is it so hard for you to admit that not every kid is harmed beyond redemption by the upper-tier programs such as Carlbrook?