Carlbrook

[Troll Control]

I'll answer for you- the ONLY choice is to try an emotional growth program which also offers the academics which many teens still need. I could care less if there is scientific proof as to the success rate

Well, there you have it, folks.  A more typical programmie response could not be given.  

She doesn't care if it works or not.  She doesn't care if it has been evaluated by research.  She doesn't even care to let me answer the question SHE asked me - she even answers that one FOR me (how gracious!).

My problem with these type of people usually comes with the "we tried everything" answer.  Quite clearly, you have not.  It is obvious that you did not even consult a reputable professional psychologist who specializes in adolescent and family treatment.  If you did, s/he would have told you not to consider an "EG" program because there is no quantifiable data that shows them to be effective, yet there is copious clinical data that shows them to be harmful.

So, no, you DIDN'T try everything else first.  You didn't even cover the basics like a consultation with a reputable child/family psychologist.  If you did, you wouldn't be here.

[try another castle]

this may be illegal activity or drug/alcohol abuse OR sexual promiscuity. The kid will not accept any direction or correction from the adults in his life. The kid has been kicked out of school. The kid is violent and may be stealing from the family or the parents of friends.

Welcome to the world of having a teen. YES, teens can be violent and steal from you.

And you know what? I CAN'T say what constitutes a need for residential treatment. You know why? BECAUSE I'M NOT A CHILD THERAPIST, PSYCHIATRIST OR SPECIALIST, AND NEITHER ARE YOU. Ever consider having a kid evaluated before deciding to simply ship him or her off? (And that is, evaluated by someone who doesn't have ties to the behavior mod industry, or gets kickbacks from them, or is on their payroll.)

What I CAN say is, no matter how fucked up a kid is, they don't deserve going to an emotional growth school. There ARE alternatives. Read Maia's book.

I've said this before, but the current parent culture is just ridiculous. Less involvement, and higher expectations.

[Anonymous]

I also notice that when these pro-program parents are touting the virtues of their beloveds, they often mention that kids are being accepted into "very prestigious schools" etc.  That's another thing that makes me think parents really are more interested in churning out these little Waspish (pun intended) soldiers than they are in actually finding out what's right for the kid.

[try another castle]

On 2006-03-06 11:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I also notice that when these pro-program parents are touting the virtues of their beloveds, they often mention that kids are being accepted into "very prestigious schools" etc.  That's another thing that makes me think parents really are more interested in churning out these little Waspish (pun intended) soldiers than they are in actually finding out what's right for the kid."

And even so, there is no guarantee that these places are responsible for their placement in such colleges.

I will say one thing, though, it certainly fucked up my ability to socialize with my classmates. It took about two years before I was able to not be a total holier than thou brainwashed retard.

So maybe your kid got into college. How did they do socially when they first got there? Were they able to even interact on a normal level? (Don't bother answering that, really. Kids don't normally talk with their parents about such things. I know that I am staunchly anti-program and I don't talk with my parents about it at all.)

[Anonymous]

"You didn't even cover the basics like a consultation with a reputable child/family psychologist. If you did, you wouldn't be here."

Wrong again, DJ.  We consulted with several. That is what finally led us make the phone call.  The therapist that treated our son in wilderness is one of the best therapists I have ever encountered. He recommended Carlbrook (along with our EC).

[Anonymous]

castle- for the milliionth time, noone is saying Carlbrook or any other program got their kid into college. What it did was possibly prevent the kid from ruining his or her chances at getting into a good college.  I can assure you that my kid would not be heading for the college he will attend next fall if he had continued on the course he was on pre-Carlbrook.  
My kid was only in wilderness/Carlbrook for a total of a year.  There was absolutely no effect on his social development. He did fine at his boarding school pre-program and is doing fine post-program. He can be an arrogant jerk, but that isn't Carlbrook's fault.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-06 11:22:00, Anonymous wrote:


Part of parenting is recognizing when you have exhausted the personal resources available to you. I have readily admitted my parenting mistakes. My kid had way too many privileges and not many consequences.

You guys will only admit to things like "oh, I wasn't strict enough"..."my kid had way too much"...which all fits in nicely with the system in place at the programs.  That way they can make up ridiculous, arbitrary rules and justify them as necessary for the kids to realise they're not in control anymore.  You don't really hear any of them admit that they were too busy to have truly gotten to know their kid or that maybe they were too hard and set some unrealistic expectations or that maybe, just maybe they really DO expect the kid to grow up exactly how they'd planned.  Nope, we only hear about how the parents were too lenient and that's why they need someone to crack the whip for them.

How truly sad and pathetic.

[Troll Control]

And you know what? I CAN'T say what constitutes a need for residential treatment. You know why? BECAUSE I'M NOT A CHILD THERAPIST, PSYCHIATRIST OR SPECIALIST, AND NEITHER ARE YOU.

Well, I am.  I can certainly tell you if a child meets the clinical threshold for a residential placement.  This threshold is met in less than one percent of clinical cases.  

The problem is that the vast majority of these parents never had their kid evaluated/diagnosed and the facilities don't do testing.  Most of the time the kid is summarily labeled "ODD" - and that diagnosis is "iffy" anyway (most clinicians do not use ODD as a dx at all and in over 90% of ODD cases the child is UNDER TEN YEARS OF AGE).  

So, you're being asked to swallow a LOT of garbage.  One, your teen is among the one in ten cases of ODD over ten years of age AND that the "ODD" is at the clinical threshold of requiring inpatient treatment (significantly less than ONE PERCENT).  Do the math.  This scenario describes about .0005% of the teenage population (if you factor out that ODD doesn't really hold water as a dx).

How exactly did Carlbrook get over a hundred of these kids?  How did the industry find over 20,000 of them?  This time I'll answer for you, Karen: FRAUD.  Plain and simple.

 

Karen, what is your son's diagnosis?  Who did the clinical evaluation.

[Anonymous]

His diagnosis was made after extensive testing at the wilderness program.  I am not going to share that here, sorry.  The testing was done by a reputable psychologist (PhD) and we received an extensive report.  
Where is the fraud?  Carlbrook (or wilderness) guarantees nothing. As Ted pointed out, Carlbrook does an extensive investigation into your kid before they are accepted.  Mine barely got in, by the way (due in part to almost killing his escorts during the transport to wilderness).
Karen

[Troll Control]

There was absolutely no effect on his social development

Really?  How do you measure this?  How could you possibly know?  Another "guess" on your part?

[Troll Control]

His diagnosis was made after extensive testing at the wilderness program. I am not going to share that here, sorry. The testing was done by a reputable psychologist (PhD) and we received an extensive report.

Why can't you say what the dx is?  Obviously, it has to be extremely severe (worse than 99.5% of ALL CASES) or he wouldn't have been placed residentially.

Your argument has totally deflated.  You don't know if the program works, you don't care if it does or doesn't AND you won't even say the dx that put your kid there.  Could it be that the placement was meritless?  It seems so.

Until you say WHY your kid was deemed to be worse off than 99.5% of the mentally ill population and NEEDED residential placement, you cannot seriously expect anyone to listen to anything you have to say, can you?  

You've shot yourself in the foot.  This is where your tired rhetoric ends and real facts emerge.  

And, BTW, why on earth would you send your kid to wildrness without even having an evaluation first?  Your "we did everything we could" mantra is just plain false (you didn't even have your kid TESTED before you shipped him out!), but I guess I want you to prop yourself up somehow.

Karen, the more you talk, the more you show you're full of shit.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-06 12:09:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

Obviously, it has to be extremely severe (worse than 99.5% of ALL CASES) or he wouldn't have been placed residentially.

That's an extremely important point I think.  The number of kids who are actually endangering themselves or someone else in pretty goddamn small.  It would be interesting to see the percentages of kids who are turned away due to the very thing that DJ just brought up.  How many really, truly and honestly need to be removed from their homes?

[Anonymous]

DJ- you have stopped making any sense and all you are doing is ignoring most of what I am saying and twisting the rest.
The only diagnosis I needed before sending my kid to wilderness was that he was no longer able to safely live in our household or our community. Wilderness was the absolutely perfect choice for him.  You would have to know more about him to understand this.  
As far as social impact- my son is around enough peers and adults who are constantly monitoring him at his boarding school.  I assure you that I have lots of feedback on everything he does.  He has plenty of friends, plenty of girlfriends, is captain of his team, and otherwise seems to be doing just fine.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-06 12:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"DJ- you have stopped making any sense and all you are doing is ignoring most of what I am saying and twisting the rest.

No, you're avoiding the questions that have been asked of you.

The only diagnosis I needed before sending my kid to wilderness was that he was no longer able to safely live in our household or our community.

What do you mean by this?

Wilderness was the absolutely perfect choice for him.  You would have to know more about him to understand this.

What criteria did you use to come to that conclusion?


 

As far as social impact- my son is around enough peers and adults who are constantly monitoring him at his boarding school.

Gee, I bet that's a load of fun.  What a way to have to go through life.  But no, he's not being impeded socially at all.  ::noway::  :cry:

[Troll Control]

The only diagnosis I needed before sending my kid to wilderness was that he was no longer able to safely live in our household or our community.

This is where the rubber meets the road, Karen.

So, you now admit that your kid had no psychological evaluation before you sent him to wilderness, right?  "We did everything."  Yeah, right, everything except even having a psychologist evaluate your son.  How negligent!  How PATHETIC.

You also are saying that when you eventually got around to looking into what the problem was - AFTER you sent him away - that the dx doesn't matter, nor does it matter if that dx is best treated by residential placement in an experimental "EG" "school."  Lady, I knew your story would come out eventually.

Karen, the parent who advocates kidnapping your kid, placing them in an experimental program with zero clinical validity, who doesn't believe in psychometric testing and even believes that "everything" means "nothing."

Great, Karen.  You're a fine example to egotistical parents everywhere who believe - despite the fact that they did a horrible job parenting - they know better than trained mental health professionals what's good for their kid.  Sure, just completely discount reason expert advice and you have the perfect program parent: ignorant and arrogant concurrently.