Author Topic: Carlbrook  (Read 700103 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #495 on: March 06, 2006, 01:33:00 PM »
It's emotional growth, not a science experiment. I know my kid, and many others, came out better than he went in. Do most?  I don't know. It sure is worth  giving it a shot, though.

I am not a proponent of all programs. I would not have considered very many of them. If my kid had serious substance abuse issues, I would have taken a different route.  There are a few quality programs that are worth trying if a family is at the end of the rope.  I think I want you to recognize the existence of these programs and stop lumping everything into the category of "your kid will by abused and will die" category.
Karen
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Offline Troll Control

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Carlbrook
« Reply #496 on: March 06, 2006, 01:34:00 PM »
Quote
I'm sorry, DJ, but I really don't get what your problem is with this place.
Karen


There's a lot that you don't "get" about a lot of things.  I'm not here to educate you about anything, so whether or not you understand me is irrelevent.

Just cite the relevent clinical research about Carlbrook and I'll talk directly to its findings.  Until then, I have to deal with you, as you seem to be the only "source" citing a success rate.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #497 on: March 06, 2006, 01:39:00 PM »
I never cited a success rate.  A number of kids are doing very well at college. A couple more have just been admitted (post Carlbrook) into some of the most selective colleges in the country. A couple more are in rehab.  One that I know of just committed a felony.  We are dealing with teenagers here. Kids mature at different rates. Some enter the program at 16 or 17, some at 15 (Carlbrook rarely will accept a student younger than 15).  Different things happen post-Carlbrook. There are different family dynamics involved.  A lot depends on how willing the parents are to understand THEIR OWN role in the teen's problems.  There are too many variables for your absurd request for scientific proof.  
Karen
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Offline Troll Control

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Carlbrook
« Reply #498 on: March 06, 2006, 01:53:00 PM »
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There are too many variables for your absurd request for scientific proof.


Really?  Wow, I guess you know absolutlely nothing about mental health care or scientific study in general.  

Of course a valid study can be done.  They're done all the time and yield valid, quantitative data.  

The question is why doesn't Carlbrook do follow-up testing or analysis?  If they were a "professional" outfit, it would be an integral part of their business plan to address efficacy.  

In the absence of a plan to address efficacy, I can only assume that Carlbrook doesn't want to have their effectiveness put to the test.  Usually that's because the seller already knows the product won't stand up to scrutiny.  Carlbrook knows that they don't help the majority (or even a small plurality) of kids, they just don't want everyone else to know.

Now, Karen, I know you claim to be an educated woman, but what you are saying is patently ridiculous and is industry quack-speak for invalidating legitimate criticisms.

These types of statements are used by all program supporters.  They throw out strawmen, red-herrings, ad hominem fallacies and post hoc fallacies relentlessly to avoid the real issues.

What dear Karen MEANT to say (but somehow can't bring herself to do it) is that she sent her kid to an experimental treatment center whose practices have no basis in accepted mental health treatment and that keeps no statistics on the results of their "treatment."  

I wouldn't send my kid to a place so bankrupt of professionalism.

So, I guess all you parents out there should just trust Karen's word for it rather than look for empirical evidence - you won't find any of that anyway...
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #499 on: March 06, 2006, 01:53:00 PM »
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I never cited a success rate. A number of kids are doing very well at college. A couple more have just been admitted (post Carlbrook) into some of the most selective colleges in the country.

And there is no proof whatsoever that Carlbrook is responsible for this.

Quote
Kids mature at different rates

Exactly. So who's to say that the kid with "problems" wouldn't have eventually grown out of it without any sort of residential treatment?

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A couple more are in rehab. One that I know of just committed a felony


Um.. You know, this doesn't exactly help your argument.

Besides, one of the studies that HAS been done has shown that many kids who have "graduated" some programs came out using much worse drugs than they did going into the place. (I believe the figure is 50/50. Exactly the same as random chance. But I could be wrong. It might actually be more in favor of kids failing to acclimate to society after these programs. I'd have to double check the study.) Since that is the case, it obviously doesn't help in terms of getting kids to stop using drugs, and could possibly make it worse. But at the very least, it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #500 on: March 06, 2006, 02:02:00 PM »
The one thing you haven't been able to tell me or the other parents is- What would you do with a teen who could no longer live in the home or the community? Assume all local resources are exhausted, the family is being destroyed by the behavior of the teen, there is not an addiction problem requiring a rehab facility....  I'll answer for you- the ONLY choice is to try an emotional growth program which also offers the academics which many teens still need.  I could care less if there is scientific proof as to the success rate.  My kid needed a place to go to school, obtain therapy and be away from home. He had already been kicked out of regular boarding school.  It doesn't matter if he would have "eventually" grown out of this behavior.  He couldn't remain in the home- he, 2 years later, readily admits this.  
I think the disconnect here is that you really don't understand what happens when these type of problems are occurring in a home. Maybe some families are willing to just leave the kid to the mercy of the legal system or wash their hands of the whole thing.  We were not willing to do that. We chose wilderness and Carlbrook. It was a tough year, but not as tough as what we had been through leading up to it.
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Offline try another castle

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Carlbrook
« Reply #501 on: March 06, 2006, 02:08:00 PM »
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What would you do with a teen who could no longer live in the home or the community?


What is your criteria for this? What constitutes "no longer being able to live in the home or community?"

And actually, Maia talks about this in her book. She lists plenty of ideas and courses of action to take with a troubled teen, and what a parent should do to investigate potential caregivers to ensure that they will take good care of your kid.

But if you are a parent who believes in the emotional growth "tough love" industry, then god help your child.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #502 on: March 06, 2006, 02:08:00 PM »
Amen.  Ted
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #503 on: March 06, 2006, 02:12:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-06 11:08:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

"
Quote
What would you do with a teen who could no longer live in the home or the community?



What is your criteria for this? What constitutes "no longer being able to live in the home or community?"



And actually, Maia talks about this in her book. She lists plenty of ideas and courses of action to take with a troubled teen, and what a parent should do to investigate potential caregivers to ensure that they will take good care of your kid.



But if you are a parent who believes in the emotional growth "tough love" industry, then god help your child.
"


 :tup:  :tup:
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #504 on: March 06, 2006, 02:13:00 PM »
"What constitutes "no longer being able to live in the home or community?""

The kid is engaging in increasingly risky behavior- this may be illegal activity or drug/alcohol abuse OR sexual promiscuity. The kid will not accept any direction or correction from the adults in his life. The kid has been kicked out of school. The kid is violent and may be stealing from the family or the parents of friends.  The parents have lost control. There is no other adult or living situation that is acceptable. The kid's life is going down the tubes and the family members are unable to function acceptably due to issues involving the teen.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #505 on: March 06, 2006, 02:17:00 PM »


Welcome to the wonderful world of parenting.  Get a grip and raise your kid yourself.  It blows my mind how parents can send their kid off someplace to forever become the family scapegoat while ignoring their poor parenting in the first damn place.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #506 on: March 06, 2006, 02:18:00 PM »
I think I can speak for the parents posting here in saying that noone is saying they "believe in the emotional growth/tough love industry".  We are saying that in the case of our particular families, one specific program proved to be worthwhile.
I still have a hard time understanding why that is so hard for you to accept.  No one here is defending abusive programs or claiming that the whole industry is wonderful.  I wish NONE of these programs were needed!
I'm sure there are a number of kids who went back to using drugs. That was not the issue with my kid in the first place, so that was not my experience.  I never heard Carlbrook guarantee that the kids would never touch drugs again.
Karen
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #507 on: March 06, 2006, 02:21:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-06 11:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I still have a hard time understanding why that is so hard for you to accept.

and we have a hard time understanding how you don't see the abusive and destructive nature of these programs from their inception.  They're based on faulty premises to begin with so no amount of whitewash and roses is going to make them any better.


 
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No one here is defending abusive programs

You might not be meaning to, but you are.


Quote
I wish NONE of these programs were needed!


They're not.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #508 on: March 06, 2006, 02:22:00 PM »
"Get a grip and raise your kid yourself. It blows my mind how parents can send their kid off someplace to forever become the family scapegoat while ignoring their poor parenting in the first damn place."

Part of parenting is recognizing when you have exhausted the personal resources available to you. I have readily admitted my parenting mistakes. My kid had way too many privileges and not many consequences. His older sibling didn't wind up in a program, however. The best decision I could make for my kid was to send him to wilderness. Again, HE ADMITS THAT.  He can look back and see the damage he was causing to himself, others and his future. He claims he would have been OK if he had come home after wilderness. Perhaps.  However, by going to Carlbrook a whole new set of options opened up which has proved to be very beneficial to his future.
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Offline Anonymous

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Carlbrook
« Reply #509 on: March 06, 2006, 02:28:00 PM »
Parenting isn't about priveleges and punishments.  I think that's part of the whole fucked up mentality of parents today.  Parenting is about connecting with your kids, teaching them.  It's not about molding them into miniature versions of ourselves or into what we want for them.  It's about helping them to discover what that is and succeed at it even if we don't get it or it's not what we would have chosen for them.  No one said it's not scary.  It is.  Most of the damn time.  But this whole system of reward and punishment is so far from what these kids need.
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