Carlbrook

[Antigen]

Who provides, monitors and manages this oversight?

Apparently this responsibility falls not on the owners, board members, presidents, directors, headmasters, family heads, educational consultants or parents.

Apparently the duty of monitoring the complete lack of oversight falls on the fornitia.

Or, to put it another way, the media--the Fourth Estate of government--the public. I don't really have a problem with that. We can't really expect the organizations in question to objectively monitor themselves. Nor can we expect some government agency to do it.

[Anonymous]

Who provides, monitors and manages this oversight?

Apparently this responsibility falls not on the owners, board members, presidents, directors, headmasters, family heads, educational consultants or parents.

Apparently the duty of monitoring the complete lack of oversight falls on the fornitia.

Or, to put it another way, the media--the Fourth Estate of government--the public. I don't really have a problem with that. We can't really expect the organizations in question to objectively monitor themselves. Nor can we expect some government agency to do it.

We expect the govt to "monitor" rape--aka punish people who commit it. Similarly, we can expect the govt to monitior abduction, imprisonment and torture.

 Prior to the 70s anti rape statues, particularly date rape, were not enforced. Today, laws against abduction, imprisonment and torture are not enforced. We can and should expect them to be!

[Anonymous]

So are people kept against their will at this place? Whats the deal?

A CB survivor in another thread spoke to this, but I can't remember which thread it is. It sounded identical to the line they gave us at CEDU, and I believe I even commented on it in that thread.

A student was held hostage through intimidation and mind-fucking. Do you want to leave? Fine, go ahead. There are no walls here. There are no gates or fences. Of course, where will you go? You're out in the middle of nowhere. You might get raped by a trucker. (as one kid actually did, and the staff milked that event for all it was worth, often in the presence of the victim)

If someone did split, and they weren't 18, they'd send the van out after you to pick you up. Blownaway (who has his splitting story in the CEDU section of this site) talks about his ordeal when he split, trying to keep to the backwoods so he wouldn't be apprehended by staff. He caught the search vans going by several times looking for him.

If you were lucky enough to make it into town (Bonners Ferry), normally the sheriff would snag you and bring you back to campus.

...that is, until he was allowed to sit in on a rap. After that experience, he said he would never send a kid back there again, and as far as I know, he never did. (Blownaway became friends with him, I believe.)

Now, I am fairly certain that CEDU was pretty much required to do this, since they were temporary custodians for all students, (even though they weren't legal guardians) and if the student was underage, they were therefore responsible, since if we got lost, they would get an earful of "wtf did you do with my kid" from the parents. So, I don't exactly take issue with the fact that they wanted to come looking for you. However, the circumstances regarding why students left, and the taunting that often preceded (or tried to dissuade) a splitting was more than just a little bit toxic. There was also mixed motivation in finding said child, since fear of a liability lawsuit held just as much weight as concern for the kid's welfare. (of course, their welfare wasnt exactly considered once they got back)

And then of course, the consequences weren't exactly much better, and obviously was also used as a deterrent.

When kids were brought back they were subjected to any number of different kinds of restrictions. Normally splitting meant either getting on a full-time or going down to survival school in southern Idaho, which was a major suckfest. By the time you got back from survival, you were happy to be at RMA, since at least there, they had fun things like heat and food and showers. blownaway spoke about how thrilled he was to be back from survival, simply because he was starving. I witnessed several kids come back from there. All of them had lost a considerable amount of weight, many were covered with infected insect bites (unless it was in the winter), and most of them had parasites. (giardia)  I actually had an expedition down in that same area, and drinking that water without boiling it first will get you hellishly sick. If you were dehydrated and couldn't wait to build a fire to boil it (building fires in survival, btw, required using a bow drill) you'd get the parasite. Our expedition was lucky because we were allowed iodine tablets, but on survival, it all has to be boiled.

So.. there was nothing that was physically keeping us on the grounds. However, if we were underage, and we left... that was when shit went down.

Most of us felt a large sense of futility in even trying, since the location was so remote. The walk to town was maybe a one to two hour trek if you kept to the roads, which normally meant that you would eventually get picked up. A couple of guys in my peer group got as far as the Canadian border by hitching a ride in a boxcar, which is pretty fucking dangerous, especially if you value your legs.

CEDU running springs was even worse. You could see the city lights from campus, but the trek down the deceptively hikeable hill was actually quite treacherous. It kind of reminds me of alcatraz. You could see SF and it seemed sooo easy to cross... until you got in that freezing motherfucking cold water, and had to deal with currents that were a hell of a lot stronger than they looked.

An upper school student who was of age split while I was in Voyageurs, and a friend in his peer group walked him out. They had a last light about it, (i.e. the daily before bedtime thingy) and his friend was saying how he was just sick of it and decided to go. He was allowed to, of course, because he was an adult, so that was his last day there, basically. At that time (I dont know if it changed) CEDU was not like WWASPS in terms of lying to kids telling them that their parents had gotten extended custody, or getting the parents to not take their kid back, so he/she had nowhere to go after splitting. If you were 18 or older, you could physically leave the campus without fear that they would come after you. As far as I know, anyway.

At CEDU you were physically prevented from leaving, so I am somwehat confused by your answer.
If you read through this thread you find that survivors say that, yes, they were imprisoned, physically prevented from leaving Carlbrook--it is a gulag

[Anonymous]

Do not sent your child to Carlbrook, as long as Grant Price is still in charge. For eleven months, I begged my parents to be sent anywhere else. Not home, just somewhere else. If forcing your child into treatment really seems like your best and only option, take a look at the Oakley School. For me, it was far less damaging and a lot easier to get into college from, as well as far more realistic, providing a little bit of freedom and seeing what you do with it, then tailoring the program to you from there. You get to be a lot more active and it provides far more opportunities for growth. Carlbrook needs to be shut down-- I can see that it began with good intentions but the fact that there have been two attempted "uprising" or "underground" situations in the last few years should be telltale enough, and the therapy is aggressive and hostile.

Carlbrook was not started with good intentions. It started after murderer and torturer Tim Brace recognized he could imprison and torture kids for profit at CEDU and wanted his own private for profit torture chamber.

[PKW]

My ex is dropping off my son this morning.  I spoke to him last night he had just been released from SNWP - the conversation was strange - he kept talking about a "higher power" which means the staff.  I gave him the heads up about visiting, phone calls, letters, BANS, etc.  I have been in contact with the State of Virginia Dept. of Education.  Received a response that they were "extremely concerned about the contents of the parent handbook".  I checked with the Dept. Health and none of the Advisors are licensed to practice in the State of Virginia and the consulting Psychologist isn't either although he is licensed in South Carolina.  The powers that be are supposed to call me once he has been dropped off and settled in.  I am appealing to anyone, survivors and parents of survivors to help me  because the Judge will not have him removed from this program because of the report received from SWNP.

[maruska]

PKW, do you have joint legal custody? Please try this site for legal advice:
http://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custo ... tation-37/

[psy]

My ex is dropping off my son this morning.  I spoke to him last night he had just been released from SNWP - the conversation was strange - he kept talking about a "higher power" which means the staff.  I gave him the heads up about visiting, phone calls, letters, BANS, etc.  I have been in contact with the State of Virginia Dept. of Education.  Received a response that they were "extremely concerned about the contents of the parent handbook".  I checked with the Dept. Health and none of the Advisors are licensed to practice in the State of Virginia and the consulting Psychologist isn't either although he is licensed in South Carolina.  The powers that be are supposed to call me once he has been dropped off and settled in.  I am appealing to anyone, survivors and parents of survivors to help me  because the Judge will not have him removed from this program because of the report received from SWNP.

It's great youforwarded the manual to the Dept of Education.  You might also want to forward it to the dept of health and whoever else you can think of (or whoever is supposed to be regulating residential treatment in VA).  CB might claim to be a school, but it's crystal clear from their manual they are practicing treatment (and as such, probably require licensing as a facility).

As for the judge...  If you can't find anybody else to come forward, try showing the judge this section of the handbook:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10982&start=2595#p328736

To me, it shows a clear danger in Carlbrook's policies (specifically in dealing with suicidal or homicidal kids).  You might want to show the example of Alldredge Academy to drive the point home about the dangers of these sorts of policies.

[PKW]

Thanks for the advice, at this point I do have joint custody and I will forward a copy of the handbook to the mental health dept.  I have spoken to so many people today my head is spinning.  The most recent was the Director of the SACS-CASI who advised me that they only accredited the school for Education and that I should call the school to raise any concerns about their policies.   She did state though that they "had to abide by all of Virginia State Laws" which she assured me they did.  Of course she didn't know who would oversee that.  I have a call in to the school, they left me a message on my cell stating that a copy of the Parent Handbook would be mailed to me today, but since I already have one I have some ? for her and to please reach me at home.

[Antigen]

We expect the govt to "monitor" rape--aka punish people who commit it. Similarly, we can expect the govt to monitior abduction, imprisonment and torture.

 Prior to the 70s anti rape statues, particularly date rape, were not enforced. Today, laws against abduction, imprisonment and torture are not enforced. We can and should expect them to be!

No, not like this. We don't have government monitors checking in each time someone fucks to make sure it was consensual. If you report a rape, chances are pretty good that they'll do some manner of investigation.... unless, of course, you report having been raped by a staff member in the troubled parent industry... or by a priest.  All these things we're talking about, the violence, neglect, emotional abuse, they're already illegal. The trouble is that teenagers are the new scapegoated class. We collectively look the other way and assume they're lying or they deserve whatever they get. We don't need any new laws, just new attitudes.

[Anonymous]

So I think someone just mentioned me way back on page 2; I was "that kid" who requested to be sent to the woods in the middle of the winter. Weird.
   Yeah, I went back to the woods, because they said if I did then I wouldn't have my graduation moved back (kept there for several extra months) because of the trouble I got myself into. They also said that I'd only be there (in the woods) for 2 weeks, so I wouldn't miss the last workshop (or seminar, for those who have attended different programs where that's the nomenclature preferred).
   So that deal looked pretty good, and went off to the freezing Colorado wilderness, where I was informed after an extra 3 weeks that no, I couldn't graduate on time, as had been promised, and that I'd have to stick out another 6 months.
   I was, at that point, heartbroken because all of the closest friends I'd ever had (one of the arguably few good things that comes out of Carlbrook and --I'm surmising-- its sister programs) would be graduating without me. So I said I wasn't willing to do that and went to go to California to finish highschool and live with my grandparents. It might just be the Stockholm-syndrome speaking, but it's probably the only real regret I have.
   And yeah, I relapsed, and my use was far, far worse than it had been before Carlbrook/the two wilderness programs, but I eventually decided that enough was enough and went and got some 12-step help. I definitely have less in the way of criticism for those programs than I do the emotional-growth regimes, although one does notably need an internal desire to make them work.
   Anyway, there's a nice ramble. I'm sure I'll read more and think of stuff I wish I'd said. I'd love to hear from anyone with any opinion- my email is bensturgess@hotmail.com, my AIM is BSturgess1985
   Peace,
Sturge

this kid might help you

d
PTW, did you contact  Karenindallas or Bensturgess?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the advice, at this point I do have joint custody and I will forward a copy of the handbook to the mental health dept.  I have spoken to so many people today my head is spinning.  The most recent was the Director of the SACS-CASI who advised me that they only accredited the school for Education and that I should call the school to raise any concerns about their policies.   She did state though that they "had to abide by all of Virginia State Laws" which she assured me they did.  Of course she didn't know who would oversee that.  I have a call in to the school, they left me a message on my cell stating that a copy of the Parent Handbook would be mailed to me today, but since I already have one I have some ? for her and to please reach me at home.

start a new thread called looking for carlbrook survivors and people abused by tim brace...on a variety of forums and contact
isac, cafety, heal caica

[psy]

start a new thread called looking for carlbrook survivors and people abused by tim brace...on a variety of forums and contact
isac, cafety, heal caica

do that, but not caica (long story).

Caica works with Sue Scheff, who gets paid by programs to refer kids (kids for cash).  While she claims she would never send kids to bad places, she has (Whitmore, sue's favorite program to refer to, was cited by the GAO as the "worst of the worst").  Caica cannot be trusted.  CAICA has stabbed parents in teh back before, too... just don't.

Word of advice: don't trust people who have ulterior motives and want to sell you something (even if they claim it's a better "product").  SImply, there is no way for parents (or anybody for that matter) to tell a good program from a bad one.   Furthermore, there is no way for a parent to know whether a person referring to a program is getting paid (like the judge in PA).  While it's not ethical, it's not illegal either, and it's very very hard to catch people who do it.

[Anonymous]

Well, received my first letter from my son.  He is pissed at his advisor and his teachers because they are telling him his girlfriend must have been a bad influence otherwise "why would you be hera".  He is angry because he wasn't told what this place was like and doesn't know how long he is going to be there.  I was told by his advisor not to text his girlfriend on his behalf.  My first phone call is scheduled for next week via Laura (the phone lady) as mentioned on previous posts.  Also received in the mail the list of books to read, what is expected of me at the first visit in June - oh and if he has not been behaving properly even though you have travelled all this way the visit with your son could very well be cancelled.  Met with my attorney, gave him all the info I had so now and wait and see.  Did find a email address for a law firm who is supposedly handling a class action suit against Hidden Lake Academy.  Since Brace is the headmaster at Carlbrook and was also either the Headmaster and/or Director at Hidden Lake I hope I receive a response from this law firm.

[Anonymous]

Well, received my first letter from my son.  He is pissed at his advisor and his teachers because they are telling him his girlfriend must have been a bad influence otherwise "why would you be hera".  He is angry because he wasn't told what this place was like and doesn't know how long he is going to be there.  I was told by his advisor not to text his girlfriend on his behalf.  My first phone call is scheduled for next week via Laura (the phone lady) as mentioned on previous posts.  Also received in the mail the list of books to read, what is expected of me at the first visit in June - oh and if he has not been behaving properly even though you have travelled all this way the visit with your son could very well be cancelled.  Met with my attorney, gave him all the info I had so now and wait and see.  Did find a email address for a law firm who is supposedly handling a class action suit against Hidden Lake Academy.  Since Brace is the headmaster at Carlbrook and was also either the Headmaster and/or Director at Hidden Lake I hope I receive a response from this law firm.

GO PUBLIC with your story. That is the only way. These "schools" don't want the publci to know they hold their "students" prisoner. Why are you being so meek about this?

[Antigen]

Yes. But bear in mind that there are varrying degrees and moods of publicity. I'm trying to find this old thread but having no luck. The OP was a 16yo girl who's boyfriend had been disappeared into a WWASP program. She started a Myspace page titled something like "Save Alex". I posted a static ad for that thread w/ the boy's picture taken from the girl's Myspace page. As I recall, at that time we had almost a complete corner on the market of people who were willing, able and inclined to investigate this topic.

• The good: Despite the bad and the truly ugly developments, some serious minded and well informed people provided the same kind of good advice as you're getting now. A few people sent copies of Maia Szalavitz Help At Any Cost  to the various social workers, schoolpeople, clerks of court, lawyers, etc. Others personally contacted those same officials with their own experience and  (eghhem) interacted with family members and friends on the forum.  In the end, if I'm remembering right, a writ of habeas corpus got the kid out, but the judge asked him the kind of questions he knew to ask because of the information that had been provided to all parties.
  
• The bad: There was so much publicity and all bearing the kid's last name (he was a legal adult) that it brought a lot of stress onto everyone involved.
• The truly ugly: The things this kid's mother, sister and aunt said about both of these kids was just disgusting! For example, they took a punk rock band "friend" off of the girl's myspace and characterized that as both of them consorting with heroin addicts.

When you find those people willing and able to give concise, relevant information, put them in touch with the people charged with contributing to any decisions that may be made in his case. But I wouldn't advise anybody to go so far as using surnames or other blatantly identifying information in any public space unless you're up for living a very-real and quite protracted episode of Maury guest hosted by Jerry Springer. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It can be fun if you can keep your sense of humor about it. But it is a very hard row to ho.
:jerry:
Please keep us updated and don't hesitate to ask for any help you may need.