Author Topic: Typical Day at Sagewalk  (Read 85591 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #150 on: July 31, 2005, 06:25:00 PM »
Overlordd, the little I can understand of your totally horrible writing re-emphasizes that you have no clue about the MAJORITY of these programs. You have been told over and over again over on the other board that your arguments are weak- not to mention incoherent.  
The good programs are not punitive and have impeccable safety records.
Get over it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #151 on: July 31, 2005, 06:41:00 PM »
Please provide a list of programs that you feel are safe and not punitive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline OverLordd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 802
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #152 on: July 31, 2005, 06:46:00 PM »
I think I know who the annon is. I have seen that arguing style before, you know, of not answering a damned thing you say and being very condisending in return. His name is mose, I believe anyway.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
our walking down a hallway, you turn left, you turn right. BRICK WALL!

GAH!!!!

Yeah, hes a survivor.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #153 on: July 31, 2005, 06:50:00 PM »
Would it help the disucussion if we could all agree that there are boot camps and there is wilderness therapy abd they are not the same thing?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #154 on: July 31, 2005, 06:55:00 PM »
SOME of them are not boot camps. Others are. I draw the line at compulsion. If a kid wants to go on a dangerous and exciting wilderness adventure, that's fine w/ me. But you can't ethically force a kid to 1) risk their life and 2) engage in non-consensual intimate discussion w/ strangers.

It is the old practice of despots to use a part of the people to keep
the rest  in order; and those who have once got an ascendency and possessed themselves of  all the resources of the nation, their revenues and offices, have immense means  for retaining their advantages.
--Thomas Jefferson to John  Taylor, 1798

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #155 on: July 31, 2005, 06:59:00 PM »
Of course these kids don't want to go on a "dangerous and exciting wilderness adventure".  They want to stay home and get stoned, skip school and have sex. It is ethically just find to force them to go. They can choose whether or not to talk to the therapists. They figure out soon enough that things will progress better for them if they do.
By the way, I think Mose is a woman.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2005, 07:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-07-31 15:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Of course these kids don't want to go on a "dangerous and exciting wilderness adventure".  They want to stay home and get stoned, skip school and have sex. It is ethically just find to force them to go. They can choose whether or not to talk to the therapists. They figure out soon enough that things will progress better for them if they do.

By the way, I think Mose is a woman. "


Belive it or not, but most of these kids just want to stay at home and have a family they can rely on. Not a stupid, lazy, cruel parent who will send them away to be tortured, forced to talk about their intimate issues with strangers, and march for miles and miles carrying heavy packs for no reason whatsoever.

These kids neeed PARENTS. So instead of paying someone to raise your child for you, why don't you start taking responsibility for what's going on in your own house and BE A PARENT.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2005, 07:30:00 PM »
Don't think we were "stupid, lazy and cruel", but do agree that the family dynamics had failed.  However, the teen needed to take ownership of his role in that failure- lying, stealing,drinking, wrecking cars, selling pot, not going to school.....   During wilderness (he liked the hiking, by the way) he did take ownership of those things.
Do you really consider sending a teen to a therapeutic program for a year or two "paying someone else to raise your child"? These "children" have become a threat to themselves and others.  I still haven't heard any wisdom from you morons on a better way to address this.  Let them go to jail?  Let them have a fatal car accident?  Let them destroy their home?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #158 on: July 31, 2005, 07:48:00 PM »
How many of the kids in wilderness therapy have a diagnosable mental illness?  I know mine did.  Years of therapy at home (including family therapy, which my kids willingly went to because they knew it would make me a better parent) made no dent.  I would have been a derelict parent if I did NOT try to get my child all the help in the world.  I did my homework and found reputable and effective care for my child.  It happened to be outside.  

BTW, no one cuts and pastes the stories here on to another site just to make fun of the pain.  That's just cruel.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #159 on: July 31, 2005, 07:54:00 PM »
Quote
Don't think we were "stupid, lazy and cruel", but do agree that the family dynamics had failed.  However, the teen needed to take ownership of his role in that failure- lying, stealing,drinking, wrecking cars, selling pot, not going to school.....

How about you "taking ownership" for your part in this? Instead of dumping the problem on a bunch of strangers, why don't you own up and work it out? Why are you so desperate to scam your way out of raising your kid?

Quote
Do you really consider sending a teen to a therapeutic program for a year or two "paying someone else to raise your child"?

Yes, I do. Raising a kid is not all fun and games. It also involves helping them through difficult situations. Instead of doing that, you just sent your kid off to be raised by strangers when things got a little rough. A year or two during the teenage years is a very long time. During that time, you have nothing to do with your teen's day-to-day life. In most programs, you are not even allowed free communication and visits with your own child. You are completely cut off of your child's life.

Quote
These "children" have become a threat to themselves and others.

Was your child suicidal? Assaultive? No? then, no, he/she was not a "threat to themselves and others".

If your child was/is suicidal/assaultive, seek *professional* help (that means professional psychiatrists/psychologists, not some underqualified "fix-a-teen" quack).

 
Quote
I still haven't heard any wisdom from you morons on a better way to address this.  Let them go to jail?  Let them have a fatal car accident?  Let them destroy their home?


How about you getting involved? How about you talking to your kid for a change, finding out why they do the things they do. Behaviors don't come out of nowhere. There are reasons for all this. You talk about the benefits of "wilderness programs"-- how about you take that "wilderness trip" alongside your child? Take a break from the usual routine, in a neutral environment.

And here's a truly revolutionary idea: stick by your kid. Don't abandon them in a strange, oppressive, abusive program just because you got tired of being a parent.

It doesn't really matter what I'll say, though. You'll just going to try harder to justify your poor judgement and bad choices. You are just going to try harder to justify your choice to abandon your child when they needed you most. You are one sick individual.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #160 on: July 31, 2005, 07:55:00 PM »
***They can choose whether or not to talk to the therapists.

Which program are you refering to? That comment demonstrates how little you know, or want to know. They aren't going to let a kid sit silently in group or private sessions (if they have the latter). They will be forced, overtly or covertly.

***They figure out soon enough that things will progress better for them if they do.

Yes, when they get hungry enough. Enough punishment can motivate them to even make something up if need be, in order to appear in compliance and avoid further punishment.

Not to mention, forced confessions like smoking pot or being sexually active, resulting in the kid being labeled an addict or slut, which is held over them the remainder of their stay.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #161 on: July 31, 2005, 08:08:00 PM »
***However, the teen needed to take ownership of his role in that failure- lying, stealing, drinking, wrecking cars, selling pot, not going to school.....

First, I find it weird how you speak of your son in third person (the teen), like an inanimate object.
Another way of saying this- My son would benefit from realizing that he was in reaction to not having his needs met.

It's amazing how quick kids are to accept their part in the difficulty when their parents cop to their own faults and shortcomings. Doesn't take months of trekking through blizzards or stiffling heat to get there; or years living under the punitive microscope of a 'program'.

***These "children" have become a threat to themselves and others.

Again, THESE children? Which children? Thousands of teens, including my own sons, were sent to programs and were NOT a threat to themselves or anyone else. They were a pain in the ass for their step mother.

Far as I can tell, many of the children of posters on ST have kids who they still consider to be a threat to themselves and others, even after years of wilderness/TBS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #162 on: July 31, 2005, 08:51:00 PM »
God- why didn't I think of THAT?  Damn. I should have ASKED my teen why he did the things he did!  Yeah, I just gave up when things got "a little rough"- when he was in the ER after yet another overturned car.  H E L L O, idiots!  We did EVERYTHING possible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #163 on: July 31, 2005, 08:55:00 PM »
Including giving him the keys to a car?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Typical Day at Sagewalk
« Reply #164 on: July 31, 2005, 09:35:00 PM »
Sure, we "gave" him the keys to the car.  Get real.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »