Redcliffer

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-11-26 11:08:00, Notafriendofredcliff wrote:

"I haven't posted in a long time.  There was so much going on, and we had no luck removing my stepson from Redcliff by legal means.  His mother's permission, and the permission of her 3rd ex-husband (representing himself as the boy's father), along with approximately $31,000 (including the cost of his abduction) was sufficient reason for Redcliff to keep him as long as possible, against my husband's wishes.



FINALLY he did graduate.  It took 80 long days. We went to Utah and attended the parent's seminar.  Trust me, nobody wants to go through that.  It was ongoing hours of listening to Dr. Dan drone on about things that had absolutely no relevance.  I went because I expected them to tell us what to expect, and about aftercare.  Nope, it was just Dr. Dan enjoying hearing himself speak.  People were nodding off.  The boy had his FIRST SHOWER IN 80 DAYS.  It took about 3 weeks to finally chisel all the filth off him.  It's a wonder they didn't all have lice.



Fortunately, one good thing came out of this long saga.  The boy revealed enough about his home life to his therapist there that we were able to gain custody of him.  



We objected to him being sent to Redcliff because it was done without my husband's knowledge or consent, and against the advice of the boy's evaluating psychologist, who said it could be counterproductive.  It was established that all he needed was some regular local counseling to deal with anger issues (and now we know...boy, did he ever have reason to be angry!) and a more stable home environment.  For that, he was abducted by strangers and taken to Utah.  We had never had any problems with him other than him being quite spoiled, and having a sense of entitlement.  



That has sure changed.  We brought him home from Utah, and it has been chaos ever since.  The experience has nearly ruined him.  Of course, he had to enter high school late, so he will likely end up in summer school to attempt to catch up.  But he likes his new school.  Other than that, he hates everything.  He resents having rules to follow (very REASONABLE rules, I might add) and he has blatantly lied to us more times than I can count.  He has gotten into trouble, and he refuses to accept that he is grounded as a consequence of his actions.  Every day is a constant battle.  We've tried to talk to him about the merits of being honest and trustworthy, and he just says that's a bunch of crap, and he doesn't care if he's trustworthy, and why would anybody spend any time thinking about trust?  He is extremely disrespectful and cruel.  He says he is not going to respect the rules, that he shouldn't HAVE any rules, etc.  We read some of his written therapy assignments, in which he says how important trust & truth are, and how he wants to be a better person.  He now admits, he learned to play the Redcliff Game, and knew what was expected of him to make him worthy of graduating.  All the kids learn the game.  He just took longer than average.



Redcliff was advised within a few days of accepting him into their program, that his psychologist warned this was not right for him. They were given a copy of his evaluation.  I told him in a letter that the psychologist said he shouldn't be there, and we were trying to get him out.  Because I did that, I was banned from writing to him.  Now he says his Redcliff therapist told him a different story.  She allegedly told the boy she spoke to his psychologist, and she read the evaluation, and she stressed that he DID say he needed to be there.  We contacted the psychologist and he said he never heard from anyone from Redcliff.  Because he has done nothing but lie since he arrived, I wouldn't be inclined to believe him, but he volunteered the information.  And the therapist had lied to us on at least one occasion that we know of, so who knows what the truth is.



Regardless, I would say to any parent who is considering Redcliff:  Don't buy into the advertising.  Keep in mind that the success statistics they quote on their website were compiled by people who are (directly or indirectly) affiliated with Redcliff (one is actually on their board of directors). Do your research.  It DOES NOT WORK.  In our case, they knowingly accepted a kid who didn't need it, accepted him under false pretenses, refused to allow his father to withdraw him, and turned him into a frighteningly angry young man.  We sleep with our wallets and car keys.  His mother turned her relatively normal son over to Redcliff. He had some very justified anger issues over his home life. She expected them to fix him, when she was the one who needed fixing. After 80 days, we returned home with an extremely angry, unmotivated, sarcastic and cruel young man.  Redcliff is nothing more than a lucrative business, operating at the expense of children and their families, and a feeder program to get kids into even more lucrative boarding schools.  They should be ashamed of themselves.  They feed off the desperation of parents, promising to repair their broken children, and teach them responsibility, accountability, and integrity.  I mentioned integrity the other day, and he said "What is that?".  When I explained, he dismissed it as something he had no interest in. So what DID he learn at Redcliff?  He learned how to build a fire without matches, and he learned how to use a knife.



Even though we told Redcliff that nobody in the family could afford to send him to boarding school....it was NOT an option, they continued to provide him with brochures, and even the field staff told him to keep pressing his parents to let him go on to boarding school (I have the field staff's journal notes to prove it).  That's where the big money is, so they try to lure the kids on board.  The kids don't know any better.  They don't understand it's all a big money making scheme.



So, overall it was one big disaster.  He has been set behind in school, his attitude is frightening, and we have a LONG road ahead of us.  Every day is a new challenge, or a repeat of an old challenge.  Nobody from Redcliff has called to ask how he's doing.  They don't want to know.  They took a good kid and created a monster.  They are still counting the cash.  And we are trying to save a kid they destroyed."

I don't normally dole out unsolicited advice, but here goes anyway. Perhaps instead of pressing rules and giving lectures or explanations about honesty and integrity, you should start with empathy and gaining the boy's trust. Any psychologist will tell you that the first and most difficult part of helping a troubled teen is to gain their trust. If he doesn't believe in honesty and integrity and such, ask him what he does believe in and go from there. Let him do the talking. Show an interest in, and acceptance, of what he thinks and how he feels.

I am speaking from my own past. I firmly believe that behind every troubled kid you will somewhere find that they feel like, "No one cares about me." This does not mean people don't care. Obviously, you do. It means the teen is somehow not feeling it. I remember all the attempts to 'save' or 'rescue' me when I was a teen and those that had the least immediate impact but ultimately a life-long impact were not the tough-love approaches and methods or programs, but the kind concerns of teachers, friends' parents, and members of my extended family that simply lent an ear and gave some advice here and there.

I was lucky. When my amoral, atheistic, views of anarchy, narcissm, and nihilsm came out, my father, put aside his leather belt, patiently listened without criticism or contradiction and then directed me towards ways of building a value system without the concepts of legitimate authority, God, and even good and evil (concepts I still reject). It is difficult to build a value system when you don't believe in anything, but it can be done. Does he read? Try Ayn Rand. If he's willing, try the UUA (Unitarian Universalist Association). UU is a liberal religion that encourages young people to question and challenge everything and develop their own beliefs and values.

Don't give up, ever. And good luck.

[Notafriendofredcliff]

Thanks, Atomic Ant!  What thoughtful and intelligent advice!

We hadn't thought much about what he DOES believe in, mainly because it appears he doesn't believe in much of anything beyond having fun, material possessions and social status.  But surely there must be something there. His mother forced him into Catholicism to assure his continued enrollment in Catholic School, but he has no desire to attend mass, or to practice the religion.  We now have him in public school for the first time, and he loves it.  Actually I had recently researched the Unitarians, as they seem to promote free thinking, and it's about time he is encouraged to have some free thoughts of his own.  It may be just the place for him to be exposed to diverse thoughts, values and ideas.  It's worth pursuing.  Right now his thoughts seem to center around ONLY his immediate "wants".  I'd love to see him do some reading, and Ayn Rand would be an excellent choice to promote some free thinking.  But he sees reading as work, and won't do it.  Our house is practically a library, and we read a lot, so maybe he'll eventually see reading as a leisure activity and pick up a book!

We've given up on trying to explain values and other foreign concepts to him.  He thinks it's just Redcliff chatter, and he's tired of it.  We believed, from his written assignments at Redcliff  and the few letters we received from him, that he was gaining an understanding of these things, but he was just playing the game.  We have accepted that he will only learn these things by example, and hope we can set that example.  He has been told for years that we are evil incarnate, so that will take time.  He knows we are consistent, and that we are always here for him.  Although he is still belligerent, we can sense that he feels very secure here overall.  That's a good start, and probably the best we can expect.  He's tried to blackmail us by saying he wants to return to the place where he had no rules to follow, but in the end he said he would not consider leaving here. We have very simple and reasonable rules.  He has a set bedtime on school nights, we are all expected to be honest and respectful with each other, and if he goes to visit a friend, we have to know their last name and home phone number.  Hardly a gulag situation.  He had a really good day yesterday, and we were encouraged.  His trust has been violated by nearly everyone in his life who supposedly "cared" for him, so it's going to be a huge adjustment.  I believe in time, he will come to trust us, as he sees that we are caring people, and we demonstrate our values in our day-to-day lives.  It's up to him to develop his own values....all we can do is be an example.  It's something that should have been instilled, or at least demonstrated to him throughout his life, but unfortunately we are starting from scratch.

You hit the nail on the head.  He doesn't believe anyone truly loves him, and he believes he's not worthy of being loved.  He told us he expected we would physically abuse him, which is not in our nature to do, nor is it a remote possibility.  But it was his expectation, as this has been his experience in life.  I don't know how long it will take him, if ever, to fully lose that expectation.  I try to empathize, but I can only imagine what he has suffered, and how helpless and alone he must have felt.  Then he was further victimized by being sent to Redcliff, which only served to reinforce that he deserved to be punished for being abused.  All in all, it's amazing that he functions at all.

It sounds like your father is an amazing and insightful man, and his guidance was immeasurable. I'd love to know his methods.  I thought I was such an experienced parent, having raised a family in my previous marriage (and my grown children are simply amazing, thoughtful and kind human beings) but this is a totally new challenge for me, and I can't afford to screw it up.  He is too important.  He IS worth saving, and I love him dearly.  Well, now the tears are coming.  I really want to help shape him in life, without putting him into a mold.  I want him to be able to think for himself, form his own opinions, and he's never been allowed to do that before.  Most of all, I want him to KNOW he is loved, and that he DESERVES to be loved.  We will love him even when he's being a little snot.  We will love him when he makes mistakes.  We may not always like him, but we will love him.  It will take time for him to realize this, I know.  

Thanks so much for the insightful and helpful advice!

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-26 16:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

I'm sure all the behavior you are seeing from your stepson is exactly how he was acting at his mother's house. It is not a result of his time at Redcliff.

Thanks, Miss Cleo!  :rofl:

Government can do something for the people only in proportion as it can do something to the people
http://lfb.com/?stocknumber=FF7485&code=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson.

[Antigen]

Well, here's my .02 worth. Instead of thinking of his recent ordeal as just damage, consider the kinds of strength and determination the kid had to master in order to survive it. You might worry that he keeps his cards soooo close and won't trust you or ask you for advice. But look at how well that has served him. If he hadn't mastered that, more than likely he would have done what most of these kids do and help pressure you guys to send him to a gulag school, believing either that he needed it or that failure to say so would get him locked down even further.

Once your parents raise the stakes to all out war status, I think there's no going back. Surviving one of these wilderness camps is, in my opinion, a whole lot like (but not idential to) being a war vet. So, to a certain extent, you have to treat him like a grown man. Ground him? Puh-leeze! He knows damned well he could dissapear into the relatively comfortable wilderness of, say, the Smoky Mountains or some urban jungle. In fact, I know a guy who eventually landed up in Straight in the `80's who did just that. After Outward Bound, he needed to get away from his psycho parents. So he found a tarp and built a little lean-to in the woods outside of town and took a little vacation for like a year or two.

Your step son is very, very fortunate to have understanding adults like you guys on his side. Just try to be very careful in picking your battles.

Stealing from you? Obviously a problem. That he doesn't get that? Well, maybe he just can't afford to believe that anyone, even you, is worthy of his trust or respect right now.  I can certainly understand how that would happen. But here's the thing, whatever he's not talking to you about is still happening. Is he treating his new school friends like this? Whether he tells you about it or not, it'll still hurt if/when that comes back to bite him in the ass. Maybe, maybe, he'll trust you enough to take that safe harbour in a storm when he needs it if you're careful to steer well clear of his definition of an enemy.

At least, that's how I felt and what I needed when I finally got out. It was a looooong time, though for me.

I turned to speak to God, About the world's despair; But to make bad matters worse, I found God wasn't there.
--Robert Frost, American poet

[Notafriendofredcliff]

More great advice!  Thanks!  We know the damage that has been done to him, but we also have praised him on the courage and strength it took for him to finish the Redcliff program.  We try to stress that to him, even though we privately believe the program is simply bogus.  We feel it's important for him to NOT to believe it was a total waste of his time, and trust me, that's not easy considering how we truly feel.  It's somewhat like supporting a war, lest the casualties of war will have sacrificed in vain.  We've told him if he could survive Redcliff, there's nothing he can't conquer.  That's about the most we can say to him about it, without being dishonest.

We aren't worried that he would steal from us.  But then we really don't know WHO he is at this point.  The reason we sleep with our wallets and car keys is so we won't unwittingly give him the means to run away.  At this time, we are just "covering the bases" for his own protection.  Of course, he could leave on foot at any time, but we don't want to enable him.  

We'll have good days and bad days, and I'm confident eventually the good will prevail.  It will be a long road.  He seems to do well with his friends so far.  No indication that he's treating them badly.  So that's encouraging.  We'll continue to keep the emotional door open to him if he wants to talk about anything.  I suppose that's not going to happen until he trusts us.  We can wait.  We're not going anywhere.  Eventually he may come to understand we are his advocates.  We are hopeful.

Thanks for helping.  Your support and advice is appreciated.  Who is this Miss Cleo person?  Is she for real?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-28 11:29:00, Notafriendofredcliff wrote:

"We know the damage that has been done to him, but we also have praised him on the courage and strength it took for him to finish the Redcliff program.  We try to stress that to him, even though we privately believe the program is simply bogus."

None of my business but I am not sure it is wise to conceal your opinion of RedCliff.  Your silence may be taken as tacit approval.  This might lead him to the conclusion that you are "the enemy" too.

[Anonymous]

We feel it's important for him to NOT to believe it was a total waste of his time, and trust me, that's not easy considering how we truly feel.

Why not just be honest? It sounds to me like you are trying to cover your own ass.

[Notafriendofredcliff]

Why would you say that?  I don't understand why you think I'm covering my ass.  I just don't want him to feel more angry that 80 days of his life was totally wasted.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-28 08:32:00, Notafriendofredcliff wrote:

"Thanks, Atomic Ant!  What thoughtful and intelligent advice!



It sounds like your father is an amazing and insightful man, and his guidance was immeasurable. I'd love to know his methods.
"

My Dad taught high school kids for forty years. He had lots of experience with teens. I never had a chance.  :grin:

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I have to say that I have had a totally different experience with Redcliff.  Yes the parent seminar was a little rough (exactly like you said) but if you hung with Doc Dan until the end he had a great message that actually addressed what you wanted to know -- what to expect -- and for me why this happened in the first place.

Your aftercare should have been addressed long before that seminar -- but then it sounds like you have sooo many more complex relationship issues then our family.

We are intact and very involved -- we were willing to go to counseling while he was gone and work on our issues and what we did to contribute to his problem.

I think your case was so much different because of all of the Drama -- Like you said your Son didn't need to be there and I can see that for a kid who does not need to be there this would be a very rough experience -- considering what your son has been through I can't imagine how tough this was for him.

My son thanked us for sending him and he was really proud that he could take care of himself no matter what.  He didn't need to depend on anyone or anything to make him OK -- he truely was a different kid.

He said that he feels happy inside for the first time in a long time.He is looking forward to returning as a leader in a few years.

OK so you can now all post things like I am a program parent and my son is brainwashed etc....but Redcliff saved my Son's life.

He is at a non-profit boarding school right now and loves it -- we were very careful about where to send him.  Maybe we got lucky -- maybe wilderness was the right choice for our son since the next step for him was jail or death.  Rehab didn't work.  Parenting classes didn't work, all the love in the world didn't work... he needed something extreme.

I sent a foul mouthed, expelled for hitting a teacher, drug addict and what I got back in 100+ days was a confident young man who knows who he is and what he wants out of life.  

Was it tough -- actually I can't really even begin to imagine how tough -- some of the stories he tells -- If I had known how tough it was I would have chickened out and not sent him.

The difference is that he wears this experience like a badge of honor.  He did something well that most people could not do -- yes in many ways it was like going to war -- but then that is what I was in -- a war to save this childs life.  He won - he did it on his own without me.

I know you think I am wacked but this is our reality --

[Notafriendofredcliff]

Thank you for sharing your experience.  If I may ask, did you bring your son home with you before he went on to boarding school?

Maybe Doc Dan was having an off day when we attended the seminar.  We did hang on until the bitter end.  We waited endlessly to hear him offer anything about aftercare.  Prior to the graduation, all we were told was to set him up with a local therapist before bringing him home.  Duh.  

I'm sure Redcliff accepted your son based on his past history of drug abuse, etc., and the knowledge that you had done everything possible to help him.  I still believe there should be some due process afforded anyone of any age before they are subjected to WT, but I'm not trying to judge you.  You did what you thought was best, as a last resort.  

Unfortunately, their system is purposefully flawed.  If the parents have the ability to pay, that's the only real requirement for enrollment.  In our case, they accepted him based on an obviously fraudulent enrollment contract signed by his disturbed mother and an unrelated third party who signed as his father.  They disregarded the psych evaluation that said he shouldn't be there. Nothing significant was done for him prior to being abducted and taken to Redcliff.  Even though their enrollment contract clearly states that any parent may remove their child for any reason, they refused to allow my husband to remove him.  They actively and deliberately denied my husband his rights as a father, and knowingly held a child who was sent there for all the wrong reasons.  He (and we) will be paying the price for this for years to come.  

I'm glad to hear that your son's experience was a positive one and I hope he continues to show improvement.  Knowing what we know about Redcliff, it's a minor miracle.  I hope he doesn't have to stay in a boarding school for too long, as he has already been isolated too long from his family.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply --

We had about a week alone with my son before we went on to boarding school. Not once did he ask me if he could come home rather than go on to school.  

Considering the experience we had with redcliff I am shocked at your experience.  

It really does sound like two different places and I am sorry for your experience.

Aftercare was something my son's therapist, my husband and I discussed early on.  They never pushed me one way or another and they actually refused to make a reccommendation to any specific school.  They just helped us process our options -- including bringing him home.

In fact they actually discouraged me from sending him to Discovery Academy or Discovery Ranch which are the ones that Redcliff is affiliated with.  

Did you get to participate in the weekly conference calls with the therapist?  That was where we did most of our aftercare discussions.

Also my husband and I sought out private counseling just to get a balanced opioion about aftercare.

The private therapist has no affiliation with any schools or programs.  He was a former herion addict and said that aftercare was essential to having any chance of a lasting outcome.

I found my son's boarding school on my own.  I researched it with the state and through web sites -- even sites like these... then I went for a visit.  I was allowed complete access to the facility.  We got to eat lunch with the kids and the program was just exactly right for my son.

I learned about their treatment concept by reading a text book on the subject as well as doing internet research on the method. Then we went there at saw it in action -- unstaged action -- it was awesome.

He gets to call home for 30 minutes a week and we get calls every few days.  He says he is having a great time and enjoys the art program and the school.  He has a lot of freedom and enjoys the other boys in his peer group.

He knows that he needs to practice life in a more structured environment than I could provide -- where he can make mistakes that don't cost him his life.

What I am kind of afraid of is that your son knew that you guys were trying to get him out so he didn't have to take it seriously.  

If he didn't take it seriously then it was a giant waste of money and time for everyone involved.

I hope I am not right but I am afraid your son is acting with you like he was with his Mom and that since he knows that one or the other of your two families with rescue him he does not need to be accountable for his actions -- there are no consequences.

I can only see this getting worse -- especially since in effect he "won" by getting back at the people who put him there in the first place.  That gives him tremendous power -- he will wield that power against you now at every turn.

Like Doc Dan said -- he is on developmental vacation.  The problem is is that now he can use Redcliff as an excuse for further bad behavior.  It is not his fault -- he was messed up by Redcliff...

He now knows that Redcliff is a card he can pull with you and you will back off -- it is the hairy scary monster in the basement... ya know what I mean... along with the Divorces and the power struggles and the awful things you say were going on in his home -- what a mess!

Also -- don't be so sure you are not dealing with drugs here... actually I would be surprised if you were not.

My son was in therapy since he was in 3rd grade -he did the outpatient thing (giant waste of money and time) We did medication, an 18 week parenting class, group therapy, home school -- you name it -- we did it.

He only changed because he wanted to change. Wilderness gave him the confidence to go forward and know that no matter what happens in his life he can take care of himself.

He knew it was his last chance -- he was also almost 17 -- I think that is older than your son.

Don't underestimate the power of the bow drill and knife -- if the kid is working the program then those things mean something to him...they are badges of honor -- they mean something.

My son was out there for over 100 days.  He says he was "hard core".  Not once did he complain to us in letters about anything the whole time he was there.

He knew why he was there and knew that this was a chance to work on himself and that we were prepared to have that take as long at it took -- there was nothing magical about 30-60-or 90 or even 100 days....

Best of luck to you and your very personal situation.  I hope you find what your looking for.

I think we have and it is a brigher day for all of us.

Redcliff Fan :smile:

[Anonymous]

Hmm.... now THAT sounds familiar.  :wink:

[AtomicAnt]

On 2005-12-19 18:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Thanks for your reply --



We had about a week alone with my son before we went on to boarding school. Not once did he ask me if he could come home rather than go on to school.  



Considering the experience we had with redcliff I am shocked at your experience.  



It really does sound like two different places and I am sorry for your experience.



Aftercare was something my son's therapist, my husband and I discussed early on.  They never pushed me one way or another and they actually refused to make a reccommendation to any specific school.  They just helped us process our options -- including bringing him home.



In fact they actually discouraged me from sending him to Discovery Academy or Discovery Ranch which are the ones that Redcliff is affiliated with.  



Did you get to participate in the weekly conference calls with the therapist?  That was where we did most of our aftercare discussions.



Also my husband and I sought out private counseling just to get a balanced opioion about aftercare.



The private therapist has no affiliation with any schools or programs.  He was a former herion addict and said that aftercare was essential to having any chance of a lasting outcome.



I found my son's boarding school on my own.  I researched it with the state and through web sites -- even sites like these... then I went for a visit.  I was allowed complete access to the facility.  We got to eat lunch with the kids and the program was just exactly right for my son.



I learned about their treatment concept by reading a text book on the subject as well as doing internet research on the method. Then we went there at saw it in action -- unstaged action -- it was awesome.



He gets to call home for 30 minutes a week and we get calls every few days.  He says he is having a great time and enjoys the art program and the school.  He has a lot of freedom and enjoys the other boys in his peer group.



He knows that he needs to practice life in a more structured environment than I could provide -- where he can make mistakes that don't cost him his life.



What I am kind of afraid of is that your son knew that you guys were trying to get him out so he didn't have to take it seriously.  



If he didn't take it seriously then it was a giant waste of money and time for everyone involved.



I hope I am not right but I am afraid your son is acting with you like he was with his Mom and that since he knows that one or the other of your two families with rescue him he does not need to be accountable for his actions -- there are no consequences.



I can only see this getting worse -- especially since in effect he "won" by getting back at the people who put him there in the first place.  That gives him tremendous power -- he will wield that power against you now at every turn.



Like Doc Dan said -- he is on developmental vacation.  The problem is is that now he can use Redcliff as an excuse for further bad behavior.  It is not his fault -- he was messed up by Redcliff...



He now knows that Redcliff is a card he can pull with you and you will back off -- it is the hairy scary monster in the basement... ya know what I mean... along with the Divorces and the power struggles and the awful things you say were going on in his home -- what a mess!



Also -- don't be so sure you are not dealing with drugs here... actually I would be surprised if you were not.



My son was in therapy since he was in 3rd grade -he did the outpatient thing (giant waste of money and time) We did medication, an 18 week parenting class, group therapy, home school -- you name it -- we did it.



He only changed because he wanted to change. Wilderness gave him the confidence to go forward and know that no matter what happens in his life he can take care of himself.



He knew it was his last chance -- he was also almost 17 -- I think that is older than your son.



Don't underestimate the power of the bow drill and knife -- if the kid is working the program then those things mean something to him...they are badges of honor -- they mean something.



My son was out there for over 100 days.  He says he was "hard core".  Not once did he complain to us in letters about anything the whole time he was there.



He knew why he was there and knew that this was a chance to work on himself and that we were prepared to have that take as long at it took -- there was nothing magical about 30-60-or 90 or even 100 days....



Best of luck to you and your very personal situation.  I hope you find what your looking for.



I think we have and it is a brigher day for all of us.



Redcliff Fan :smile:

"

You've managed to include every selling point in the teen help book in your last two posts. You even try to instill desparation and fear into these other parents and tell them you suspect drugs (with zero evidence). Wonderful.

1. would otherwise be dead or in jail
2. last resort
3. aftercare essential for lasting outcome
4. when it doesn't work, blame the kid, not the program

Noting I've read changes my view. The tough-love approach is still wrong, even if it occassionally appears to work. The approach of breaking someone and then rebuilding them can never be a valid option. No one should ever be forced into a situation where they will be psychologically broken. Spending 100 days in a Wilderness Program is cruel and inhumane, no matter the results.

No one should be denied the right to choose their own path in life; even if that path is destructive. It is their life and their choice.

I see the following path for any teen sent to a program:
 
1. Initially, disbelief, fear, anger, frustration, helplessness, hopelessness. They are caught. They cannot escape. They were either lied to or betrayed and kidnapped to get there.

2. Futility, apathy, they realize they are stuck and cannot get out.

3. Some may fake it. Some may enthusiastically adopt the program. It is the only way out, so all will eventually try to work the program.

4. Setbacks. Something happens to bring them back to stage one. This could an injustice they cannot ignore, or a series of small events that builds up (since no oppositional voice is permitted). They crack and act out, are punished, and have to stay longer. The same feelings as in number 1 return. This is good for profit. The longer the stay, the more money they make. Saying your son was 'hardcore' is just another way of saying he resisted their attempts to break him a bit longer.

5. Those that adopt the program view enthusiastically get through it and sometimes even want to become part of it. Those that fake it or simply adopt it temporarily to survive fare much worse and develop more emotional scars. Some simply break and become programmed. They move through the program like robots.

6. Graduation. The success rate is high because unless the parents pull a kid, they must graduate to leave. Graduation means little. It was a forced event. The kid survived. Those that wanted to change and accepted that change view this as an accomplishment. Those that did not want to change and were forced through the program feel they were abused. They become angry and sometimes worse off than before.

Even the language you use about the kid 'winning.' What does he win? Is this a war between parent child? I think it is. I think the war can be stopped without a winner. They only way to win a war with a child is to break the child's will.

[Troll Control]

Well said.  Well done.