Author Topic: forced child labor camp  (Read 7010 times)

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Offline katfish

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forced child labor camp
« on: June 04, 2005, 02:06:00 PM »
So, I work with kids and New York state law considers forcing a kid to excersize child abuse, as does California.  No, why would it make sense to send you kid to another state for the sake of having other people do what's illegal for you to do at home?

Does anyone know that laws in Montana around corporal punishment?  Is forced child labor allowed?

I've decided that my new reference to MMS is going to be 'forced labor camp'- for kids!

Welcome to MMS, forced child labor camp.  Your kid will leave knowing the basics on how to chop wood and build fences, ski and rock climb.  She will know how to speak and talk of conquences and accountability for your actions, sadly, she may not quite be able to fully embrace such terms once she is gone because what got her there to begin with may have been the type of issue that isn't best addressed in a fear based type of therapy set up and run by a man with a degree in ecology.  

Disclaimer: we are not responsible if this facade falls apart b/c we were unqualified to really deal with depression, anxiety, sexual abuse, parental negelct and other issues.  Any further emotional/mental damaged such as nightmares, anxiety, suicide, withdrawl, isolation, and extreme confusion and disorientation caused by our aggresive 'therapuetic methods', forced labor and isolation is not our responsibility either.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2005, 04:39:00 PM »
I doubt that any state condones forced child labor, there are just some that chose to ignore it, like Montana. This is the sole reason for so many programs being in such states. A parent in New York, California or any other civilized state would be arrested for child abuse for doing what MMS does on a daily basis. Can you imagine what would happen if a child went to school and told the teacher that their dad made them carry rocks in their back pack, run laps backwards, not speak for months, live in a tent outside by themselves in the snow, called them sluts and laughed at them as they begged to come in just for a minute to get warm? Such behavior would make the evening news, complete with footage of the parent being hauled off to jail and the child being taken away by CPS! MMS and other places like it should not be allowed to exist, plain and simple. Just because all of the girls didn't experience abuse, doesn't make the place acceptable.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2005, 04:48:00 PM »
that is all true.
 :scared:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2005, 08:11:00 PM »
Since when is chopping wood abuse?
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2005, 09:42:00 PM »
From the training I have had in working with children, any forced labor as punishment is considered abuse.  I can't make a kid go out and chop wood, for instance, any more than I can make them write 100 times what they've done wrong, or make them stand in a corner for having not followed the rules.  What they do in Montana is in fact considered abuse in some states, just not in MT, I guess.  I suppose that's why there are so many school there and not to many here in NY or in CA.

check out this site

http://www.childadvocate.org/3_cp.htm
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2005, 09:51:00 PM »
For California attorney general on us of excersize as punishment

http://www.pesoftware.com/Resources/exercise.html
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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Offline Antigen

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forced child labor camp
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2005, 10:13:00 PM »
Kat, this is a very interesting discussion for a number of reasons.

First off, what you're learning in school is completely at odds w/ the vast majority of American culture. And I think, to a great extent, the old fashioned ways are far superior to the new psychologized, scientized ideas about child rearing.

But there's a bait and switch going on here. When these salesmen describe structure, discipline and accountability we old farts get nostalgic for the good old days. When I was a kid, if I got caught out of bounds (which was not near so often as I actually went exploring) or commiting any other transgression, my dad would give me hard labour. I'd be scraping and painting the house or mowing the lawn or cleaning out a utility room that hadn't seen a broom in years! I was alright w/ that. Even if I was sure my dad was, he was the dad and I took my lumps. Also got the satisfaction of a job well done and being able to call it done and over with, having redeamed myself of the transgression (till next time... heh) Plus, it was my damned house. He never handed me any meaningless, worthless work. It was always something worth doing.

I do pretty much the same thing w/ my kids, thought not quite such hard work. And, like my dad always did, once they get started and show some interest, I forgive them and pitch in. Usually, we all wind up throwing in on whatever the project is.

But that's not what's going on at MMS, is it? But the're bying it. They think these Synanon based programs are just doing things the old fashioned way when, in reality, it's a whole lot closer to good old fashioned Maoist indoctrination.



Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2005, 09:04:00 PM »
HAHA! YOU ROCK! I totally agree....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2005, 07:38:00 PM »
. . . because California is soooooo successful, right? :razz:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2005, 09:47:00 PM »
Actually....I think it is what the school is doing..Although they seem to play with the extreme line.
When we would "get out of line" either as a group or individually they would give us consequenses like that.
we would shovel, have projects...ie...personal inteventions..we moved burn piles, built fences, dug out stumps,
we did the same as group yet we had pysical challenges. ie, skiing up the summit of something or acomplishing a certian mile ski.
These things wouldn't happen unless we started the day with a goal and one or more persons would not finish the goal. Even as a group we would build fences and have hug projects to do....anyone remember PNAIS?? I remember we liked the huge project because it kept us on our computers but not on our bikes.
Well my point is that MMS did the same thing that your dad did...just on a bigger scale.
and this whole abuse thing is getting OUT OF HAND.The word is being thrown out there with no true validity to it.
Did we enjoy every little thing we went through at MMS?? did we agree with everything that we did at mms?? No
Are we not better people for it??? did it teach us strength and skills for life, Are we not able to better handle what normally would be hard situations?? let me give you an example of my life and what im talking about. the first year after MMS I was raped....i wouldn't have known whaqt do with out MMS. My parents didn't even beleive me and the issues with my mom got worse and i only know how to deal with her due to the skills i learned....
Anyway im rambling...just wanted to put in my two sense
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2005, 11:03:00 PM »
"Are we not better people for it??? did it teach us strength and skills for life, Are we not able to better handle what normally would be hard situations?? "

I don't feel like I am a better person for having gone to MMS- I certainly don't feel at all that MMS taught me anything about strength and skills I need for life- in fact, I feel that I wasn't at all given tools to succeed- I acquired those much later and on my own and am still acquiring them.  Especially in terms of education, MMS did me a great diservice.  
I was not able to deal with situations at all when I left MMS.  I was so confused, a real mess when I realized that I had not learned really anything about how to handle life.  I learned at MMS to do lots of physical activity and cower down to what MMS dicatated was the right way to do things and also how to feel anxious over really stupid things like not doing thing the right way, their way.
my 2 cents
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Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2005, 12:15:00 AM »
Okay Kat.....maybe its just time you own the fact that you were a, (excuse the language,) shit before MMS....a shit at mms and .............
you were given a opportunity to chnange your life and become a much better person, take tools that were shown and given to you and make a change within yourself. If you didn't learn what was taught how is that MMS's fault??Why is there fault you walked away with nothing????
Why is it that out of ALLLLL the girls that went to MMS you are the loudest?? you claim to be have been "ABUSED" yet you have not been specific and have yet to explain your experience at mms.
MMS was harder when you left...I remember what it was like when you were there.
Just own your own actions and responisbilites and relax....it is what 14 years now since youve been at the school??? I still remember the day at mms when the staff had planned something for us and did we do the afternoon activity?? No, why??, cause ALL 5 FOUNDING members were on the phone with  YOU.
Every founding staff at that time did exactly what they asked the girls to do...skies...bike rides,...hikes. They ALL went with us. Im just saying they didn't expect more from us that they didn't require themselves to do.
I see it this way....its been 10-14 years since some of the old timers have been there.
MOVE ON!!! BEEN THERE, DONE THAT..GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND GET A LIFE!!!!!!!
Thats my 2 cents
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Offline sunshine

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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2005, 12:47:00 AM »
There is no need to get aggressive about this subject, anonymous. Just in case you havent read the hundreds  of other postings on this site, everyone has a different opinion about what happened while wewere there and we are all entitled to it. The fact remains that kat does not feel like mms is jsutified in the actions that they took in our therapy. it could have been more professional, less personal, less cussing, yelling and belittling, etc. All that shit bothered me, to be honest. And I relate to a lot of what Kat has said in lots of her posts. A lot of times i know she gets singled out for being a basher, but really she is strong, and she knows how to deal withthat type of criticism. As to the whole getting a life thing, we all have lives. Do you not have a life because you also sit here and post on this site your opinions? NO, so dont tell people that they need to get a life because they do not share your opinion. Your opinion is yours and it reflects how you have dealt with what happened there. Good for you, I am glad that you did a lot of growing there. However, many of us did not actually start growing until we actually left there and let the stigma of "having to go the mms way" behind.

All who doubted or denied would be lost. To live a moral and honest life -- to keep your contracts, to take care of wife and child -- to make a happy home -- to be a good citizen, a patriot, a just and thoughtful man, was simply a respectable way of going to hell.
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Offline katfish

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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2005, 02:22:00 AM »
woa, hostilities! Is that you, Betsy?  Say it ain't so! lol.  Dang, record time!

I think I'll just agree with lina oh so fina on this one.  Beyond Christians protesting against fags/dykes I don't think I've heard so much rage since...well, previous posts.

Also, don't anyone forget to sign the petition!

http://www.petitiononline.com/hr1738/petition.html

ps. this is my life, see above, among other things... I do want to, if I can, make a career out of making public harmful effects of such institutions, educating the public, getting places regulated, etc.  I don't want any other girl to have to go what I went through- not what YOU went through,  again, but me me me me me me.  Oh, and what a few others girls went through as well.

ma three cent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
Margaret Mead

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2005, 02:40:00 AM »
Everyone should consider signing the petition. I realize some people have downplayed its importance but none of us know the impact it might have on the people who will receive it. So I vote that everyone sign the petition today, because time is running out.
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