Growing Together - What to do

[concerned mother]

I recently visited GT and was trying to decide if it was right for my son.  He needs help .... before he throws away his life.  If anyone out there has a suggestion other than GT let me know.
Thanks ::  ::

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

[Anonymous]

Hi Concerned Mom,

  Sorry your son is having trouble.  I know it's VERY stressful for the whole family.
  I don't know of any other specific treatment options, so I don't have another one to recommend to you.
   I will tell you that I completed the LIFE program (which GT was formed from) back in the 80's, and felt it did me a world of good.  No, I wasn't happy to be there (don't know anyone who is happy that they need counseling or treatment) but I am VERY glad my parents helped me out back when I was 16, now.  
   Most of the posters on this site will tell you GT is awful, torturous, etc.  I do not not share their opinions.
   Good luck to you and your son.  

  Kim

[Anonymous]

http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2004- ... ure_1.html

[kpickle39]

Hello concerned mom  - I understand your feelings.  I am a father of a 24 year old son; I am also a survivor of straight inc.   My son was a wild child all through his teen age years.  He did many many things I disagreed with.  I'm not going to go into this in great length, but let's say my son was an extreme challenge.   This being said, I never thought of placing my son in a behavior modification program.   There are a many reasons for this.  The first is and most obvious is, while they are effective, (ie they modify behavior), they are not, (repeat are not) theraputic at all.   The long term impacts and unintended consequences from his time in GT or any behavior mod will not be want you or he will ever want to experience.

Our son is doing quite well now.  Enrolled in college, living on his own, great girfriend, paying his own way and making for the most part, wise and thoughtful decisions.  My advice to you is to take the path my wife and I chose.   Keep it   in the home. We kept him home and worked as a family to deal with the issues at hand.  It was hard as hell sometimes, even scary, but we kept him at home.  We did not farm out our parental responsibilities to someone else.  We had family meetings, counseling, etc....but the most obvious reason my son is doing better with himself, is he is growing up.  He is becoming a man.  He amazingly has the values that we tried to instill in him as a young child.   He is growing up.  Which is what happens to all of us.   If smoking drugs and being defiant or whatever your son's problem is, for the most part, he will probably grow up and out of that behavior.   Many of us acted as children when we were children, and we didn't end up dead, insane or in jail, as predicted by the parents/program people.

Please, do not send him away.  As a former straightling and now survivor, and as a parent, I am asking you, for your family's sake, don't send him away, keep him at home.    [ This Message was edited by: kpickle39 on 2005-02-24 04:27 ]

[DC]

Hi Concerned Mother,
Do not let anyone make this decision for you.  It is no one else's child but yours.  The people on this board offer a great deal of wisdon and experience from programs that GT has spawned from (ie THE Seed, STRAIGHT,LIFE etc...). Many of the practices that were utilized in these programs are also utilized in GT, however I think modified somewhat.  Knowing what I know about such programs, I believe that GT is a kinder and more gentle place based on my own experience.  My Daughter has been at GT for sometime now and I believe she has benefited greatly from her experience.  Do I agree with all of their tactics...no.  But if you ask me if I think that they played a part in saving my Daughter's life, the answer is yes, without a doubt.
I respect the opinions of the people who post here frequently and maybe they will offer their wisdom and experience to you as well as some interesting reading.  Again, I must emphasize that this decision is yours and yours alone (as well as your spouse).  Get the facts and make up your own mind.  My experience has been very good.  Everyone is different.  It is important to get both sides of the story and then make your decision.
Whatever it is you decide I wish you the best.  I understand your frustration and fear.  Good luck to you.[ This Message was edited by: DC on 2005-02-24 07:03 ]

[Anonymous]

Concerned Mom I would not recommend that you send him into this program. My parents thought I was throwing my life away as well and I was sent away to one of these programs for 2 years. Sure my behavior changed temporarily and that was only because I was afraid of suffering severe consequences. The tactics that were used on me and fellow group members were mentallly and emotionally abusive. Many people in our society believe the ends justifies the means when it comes to drug treatment. In other words whatever it takes to get the job done. Unfortunatley when they were "breaking me down to build me back up" I was not able to fully recover from the things they did to break me down.

I know this father DC believes he made the right decision, but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface.

One big clue that something is wrong with these programs is the constant changing of the names. When it gets to hot in the kitchen these programs pretend to close down, only to change names. GT, Life,Straight,The Seed, KHK, and Pathways are all derivatives of one single program.

[DC]

Anon...You forgot to mention Kim.

[dbucfan]

" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."

Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-24 16:15:00, dbucfan wrote:

"" but I can tell you the majority of us who went through these programs have problems even today because of them and it usually takes years for all the memories during our incareceration to surface."



Correction: the majority of people ON THIS SITE still have problems even today. I am one of the ones who didnt like going through the program(life) but it helped and worked for me...i appreciated my family and everything i had soo much while in and after i 7th stepped. It was definately a good thing for me and my family. :grin:  



"

  IMPORTANT point.  Majority of people ON THIS SITE.  Please note that.  (Good call dbuc)

  As for the programs having different names, um, it's a legality thing with ANY business.  You can't take a name that's already there, unless it's a chain.

[Anonymous]

Concerned Mom,

Go to Who Am I Discover-Whitmore and read a few of the postings there.

This was suppose to be one of the good schools too!

Don't send your son anywhere.
Keep him home, get a good therapist, and then you will never be in our position---having your child home, pressing abuse charges---and having to look your son in the eye, and trying to explain WHY.

[Helena Handbasket]

The first thing I would advise is that you read the New Times article that was posted earlier, and also look at http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html and
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html#gt

Here's some good reading on what to watch out for when considering "treatment" for your kid:
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html

Yeah, I know it's all the same source, but ISAC is pretty much a compendium of factual information on these places.  You'll see that in GTs documentation.

Also check out http://www.thestraights.com. While it focuses mainly on Straight, Inc., the players are the same.

Everything I've had to say is well documented, and posted throughout these fora by myself and many others, so there's no need to repeat.  The bottom line is true "addiction" rarely exists in teens and most all are just experimenting and giving the finger to control - happy authority figures.  When they fall on their face a few times, they get sick of smashing their acne - blemished little noses, and eventually grow out of it.  

And before you go off thinking that the dissidents of these programs are still living in their parent's basements, and hitting off a bong as they post their grievances, you should know that a good many of us are well adjusted, objective and successful.  

Bottom line - your kid's "problems" can be treated at home or, if need be, between home and a professional mental health practioner -  not by a bunch of kids screaming at them in an effort to break them down, and calling it "Positive Peer Pressure".

There's nothing positive about screaming at a teen girl that she's a "druggie whore", or that a teen guy is "worthless piece of shit".

[Anonymous]

And you could also read these:
 
 3 Teens Overdose on Cough Medicine:
http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/ ... 12963.html

  Teen dies after huffing:
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw1 ... 041019.htm

   Image of pot being harmless changing:
http://www.wokr13.tv/news/local/story.a ... BD82204393


  Teens road from meth:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 202176.DTL

  Teen drinking:
http://sciencentral.com/articles/view.p ... =218392404

  We could do this all day long.  Thing is, I believe you have probaly done ALL you can for your son by this point, at home, and nothing is working.  It's easy to say "keep him home", etc, and he'll be fine.  But he's BEEN home, and obviously it's gotten to a point that it is BEYOND your control, and that's how you ended up at GT.  I'm sure he didn't get a bad grade, and you ran over to check out a teen program.  There's probably QUITE a mess of stuff he's done or is doing.
  You don't have to escort him to GT, but it IS an option.  Why not ask the staff there to speak to graduates or their parents (with no staff present).
  This IS your child's life.  I would find it hard to sit on it, and HOPE for the best.
  I hope you've maybe found another interenet site to get input from too.  Coming to this site to ask if this program is right for your son, is like going to an anti-homosexual site to ask if homosexuality os ok?!?

  My best to you and your son.  What kind of stuff is he up too?  Drug use is merely a "symptom" of an emotional, behavioral, pyschological issue.

[Nihilanthic]

Wow, isnt this interesting? We have an ANONMYOUS fear-mongerer. Lemme excuse everyone from listening to me go into a diatribe about how stupid that bag-head is and how stupid it is to try to manipualte people through fear instead of try to communicate and think rationally, and how ego-reduction via methods such as fear are common tactics of programs and program supports, and just call it a FUCKING MORON.

Now, Sara here was actually PUT in this fucking program a while ago becuase her mom was, well, an ass, and wanted her gone for reasons I'm not at liberty to discuss. She had great grades, wasnt a bad kid, etc, and they still gave her the same 'treatment' of degredation, attempted coercive (forced) behavior modification (brainwashing, and if you know shit about this subject or psychology,  I DARE you to try to spin and P.C. it as something else, I fucking DARE YOU) and general maltreatment and discomfort. Then there was the program family she had to stay with, that had stupid rules about toilet paper. Nothing like feeling filthy all day to CHANGE THAT FROWN UPSIDE!

Yeah, Sure, you'll make them be positive, perfect little *PERKY* stepford children wtih degredation and skidmarks. COME ON.

Now, Sara brought up ISAC CORP and the warning signs of of abusive/problematic schools and programs. There is *NO* Excuse for any program or school to be found to do anything that list says is bad, PERIOD. Its supposed to be supportive and helpful, not isolation in a prison with interrogation-techniques used to break into their mind like a hacker getting into a computer to mess around with the inside of it.

Furthermore, NONE, NONE, FUCKING NONE of these supporters can explain AT ALL how the programs even fucking work! I made a HUGE, BIG ASS LOOOOOOONG Thread in "Teen help industry" called "How about some damn answers" here: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7573&forum=9
And if you read ALL FOURTY PLUS PAGES OF IT, you'll see how they still cant pull even the slightest reasoning or explanation for it. Oh, and guess what else happened?

Chi3 came to her senses and pulled her kid OUT of the program her kid was in. You should see how she and her child reacted when they did that. Chi3 is regretful for ever putting her daughter in there, and is now tired of her daughter opening up and telling her more about the TRUTH of the stupid camp.

Sara is right, there is no reason for abduction or (escort) to a 'program' thats just an isolation prison (yes its a prison, period, there is no process to evaulate the necessity or helpfulness of such extreme isolation and captivity for the kids going in, so its not a mental hospital; furthermore they keep everyone in there just as isolated as the next kid, so yeah...) which relies on extreme psychological and mental attack upon a child to make them break down and accept whatever you want them to regurgitate after they get out, and austere, pleasureless, supportless, emotionally and socially sterile environments consisting of little more than doing as told and living in fear and being CONSTANTLY obedient from fear of punishment and not being able to read, develop or grow in ways essential to children, and being prevented from proper hygene.

I'd first say, Find out for SURE, from a PROFESSIONAL, if there even IS a problem first, THEN, I'd look into other methods of treatment. Also, you could just do it the way Ginger (Antigen on this website, and RFornit on AIM) handled her kids - without anyone but herself.

Programs ARE a last resort, and a good one would only take a child who simply couldnt be helped anywhere else, but theyd operate totally unlike how a 'program' operates now. Parental involvement and trust would be essential, not a feeling of helplessness and having to act like a damn slave and accept blame for everything and be a submissive humble little child-slave, and then *snap* turn into a self motivated, independant and autonomous adult at 18, 21, or whatever the random integer of adulthood of the moment is after living as a pet-child in their teen years.

You've given us such a vague, general statement of your son needing help "before he throws his life away" that its USELESS. UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY USELESS. Without specifics and FACTS we cant differentiate you from a troll, or just some idiot/psycho mother who wants to be a control freak or dump her kid in a program and live it up while junior is "sent away",

Evaluate what problem he has, if any, and get actual therapy in the home or in a day program, and look into what the school system can do to help. Get an IEP.

And... get a clue. You obviously dont have one at all. This INDUSTRY, yeah, thats right, BUSINESS or keeping kids in the programs really doesnt give a flip either way about you or your son, they just want him (and your money) in their program. And if all they spit out is children who REALLY DONT WANT TO GO BACK THERE, they're gonna act juuust perfect and *YOUR* problem will be over.

Trying to find a actually helpful, therapeutic program in this sea of sharks who just want to make a buck (or god knows what else, look at thayer and CEDU...) is difficult if not impossible. Theres simply no need for such an extremely austere living condition and punishment, isolation, and captivity. Even IF there is real therapy with that, living that way is going to really screw up a kid. Plus, being not able to develop social skills and relationships and having the privacy all adolescents need is going to stunt their development later in life.

Not only are these programs notorious for being penny-pinchers and rationing toiletpaper, they time their cold showers or have constant supervision in them, and in toilets, and while sleeping, and someone made a thread a long time ago about how WWASPS punishes masturbating!

You dont want that for your child. At least I hope not, if you did you'd be unfit to be a mother. And the thing is, if you DO put your kid in a program that right off the bat makes you sign disclaimers and say that your child will "lie to get out of the program", and thus tell you ANY POSSIBLE BAD THING IS A LIE, FROM THE START, FOR EVERY CHILD, is OBVIOUSLY HIDING SOMETHING. Connect the dots!

Read up on http://www.isaccorp.org, or read my article at http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens

And to the fear-mongering dumbfuck baghead, guess what? CRIME AND DRUG USE FOR TEENS HAS BEEN GOING DOWN FOR THE PAST 10-15 YEARS! GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU ASSHOLE! THE ONLY THING ON THE RISE IS STUPIDITY, FEAR, MISINFORMATION, AND PROFITS.

[end rant]

I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Anonymous]

We could do this all day long.  Thing is, I believe you have probaly done ALL you can for your son by this point, at home, and nothing is working.  It's easy to say "keep him home", etc, and he'll be fine.  But he's BEEN home, and obviously it's gotten to a point that it is BEYOND your control, and that's how you ended up at GT.  I'm sure he didn't get a bad grade, and you ran over to check out a teen program.  There's probably QUITE a mess of stuff he's done or is doing.

You believe this, huh?  You live in the house with them?  Fact is, you don't know what's up with the kid, and neither do I.  Also, is it right to throw a kid in a program simply because he doesn't share his family values?   For instance, there was a story on here a long time ago about a kid that got thrown into a program because he was an activist for anarchy.  You're going to tell me that's okay too?

This "I just don't like the way he/she is acting" should never be the only criteria for sending your kid away.  And I will say it again, maybe you'll get it this time:

IF YOUR KID HAS A DEFINABLE PROBLEM LOOK INTO AN APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL WHO DEALS IN THAT PARTICULAR PROBLEM

Christ, people.. you don't go to a oncologist for cancer treatment when you have a sniffle, do you?
This is what you're doing to your kids.  Then 20 years later, they wonder what happened to their hair.

You don't have to escort him to GT, but it IS an option.  Why not ask the staff there to speak to graduates or their parents (with no staff present).

  This IS your child's life.  I would find it hard to sit on it, and HOPE for the best.

  I hope you've maybe found another interenet site to get input from too.  Coming to this site to ask if this program is right for your son, is like going to an anti-homosexual site to ask if homosexuality os ok?!?



  My best to you and your son.  What kind of stuff is he up too?  Drug use is merely a "symptom" of an emotional, behavioral, pyschological issue.

"

Oh yes, why don't you send a card, "Wishing you the best with your kidnapping?"  

If you want to believe that it is only here that you will find opponents to these Synanon style programs and camps, think again.

I have a document here from the International Society of Psychiatric - Mental Health Nurses.  I'll find out if Ginger can post it if I make a PDF out of it, anyway, here are a few nuggets:

1) All children have the right to be treated with dignity and free from mistreatment, abuse, neglect, and
exploitation.

2) ACAPN (which is the American division) opposes the abduction and involuntary transport of children to facilities for confinement
unless such measures have been clinically justified in specific, operational terms by a licensed mental
health professional with the legal authority to do so. In the event that such tactics are necessary for the immediate protection of the child and/or society, the child must have access to an appeal process commensurate with the same right of habeas corpus available to every citizen of the United States of  America.

3) Children have the right to appropriate treatment in the least restrictive available setting in the event that treatment is necessary. This setting must be one that provides the highest likelihood for improvement and that is not more restrictive to their physical liberty than is needed for their own protection or for the protection of society.

It goes on to list a bunch of stuff, including their opposition to restricting media, telephone and access to parents.

And to the parent who is asking the question in the first place:  I hope Gin will post this paper from a consortium of mental health professionals, then you can read it side by side with the GT documents and make a decision.  No one can make you do anything, but you have to live with what you do.

[Helena Handbasket]

Oooops... not enough caffeine in the bloodstream this morning.. that was me.