G.T. Now

[DC]

First of all I am not a lady, I am a guy.  Secondly, that is not my belief.  I am not brainwashed, misguided, maybe.  I doubt it.  Why don't you tell me what you would do if you had a child that was out of control.  You have plenty to say about everything but what to do about the problem.

[Helena Handbasket]

My daughter was never beligerent, never threw fits, but she did steal money, stay out all night, steal from her friends, get raped by a supposed friend and used many different and dangerous drugs, etc...   By the time we decided on GT, she knew that she needed help.  She had been in AA and had a sponsor for a year before her relapse.

In a nutshell - do everything differently that you were doing that didn't work before.

To prevent the stealing of money - lock it up, keep your credit cards with you at all times (They don't take that much space under your pillow).  I've lived with theives before - once you remove access, they quit trying.

Cutting off access to the cash will in some ways limit access to the substances, but not completely.  There are inexpensive alarm systems that you can employ to secure the house at night, preventing sneaking out.

As far as school goes, you could set up a daily attendance card with her teachers - having each teacher sign to verify that she's been in class.  Keep a signature card handy so you can verify teachers signatures.

Actively be involved in homework.  When she gets home from school, give her some down time to decompress from the day, then set a Homework time, where she does her homework... maybe at the kitchen table, where she can see you, and where you two (or three, including mom) can help and actually TALK about the schoolwork.  Make it interesting.  It's a creative process.

As far as her being raped - she needs actual counseling from a clinical psychologist, maybe a psychiatrist.  Even if she seems "fine".  Part of her substance use may be a result of burying that pain, and stuffing itside is HARMFUL.  The format of GT is not what she needs.  In fact, repressing and regressing a rape victim back to childhood may be disasterous.  Don't take my word for it... talk to a psychologist in clinical practice.

If she was out of control, she was out of control for a reason, and until that reason is indentified, addressed and fixed - all the children's songs, peer discussions, and rigid structure are not going to help.

There's my 4 cents.

[Anonymous]

Well guy how about finding a qualified therapist and stick with it! My other suggestion is to stop shipping kids off and expecting someone else to fix the problems. I was in a program and kept my mouth shut for a long time about what goes on there. Here's another suggestion: let your child make mistakes and learn from the consequences and how about you establishing some ground rules and sticking with them? Oh I'm sure you will say you had rules, etc, but I bet you were not consistant with them were you? Ever think your children are the most influenced by you? Maybe it's time YOU do a searching and fearless moral inventory and figure out where the hell YOU went wrong! That's right utilize your 4th step.

Your child did not turn out a mess over night. It starts from birth. Why not think of some postive things to help your child through all this instead of punitive ones?

[Anonymous]

This furiates me even more what the guy said about his daughter being raped. You have some damn good advice Sara. Let's help her and not punish her for being a damn rape victim. When the hell are these places ever going to shut down?!

[Helena Handbasket]

On 2005-02-03 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This furiates me even more what the guy said about his daughter being raped. You have some damn good advice Sara. Let's help her and not punish her for being a damn rape victim. When the hell are these places ever going to shut down?!"

I don't know.  We can even assume GT IS DIFFERENT.  Let's say that is IS a decent place now.

Rape is a devastating experience that is a very private matter.  It needs to be dealt with in therapy - one on one, then maybe moving on to a SPECIFIC rape support group - not a mixed up tag team of kids - maybe even ignorant kids who will confront her for being at fault.

I think anyone who has been a rape victim should automatically be disqualified from any sort of generic group therapy.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-02-03 12:35:00, DC wrote:

"First of all I am not a lady, I am a guy.  Secondly, that is not my belief.  I am not brainwashed, misguided, maybe.  I doubt it.  Why don't you tell me what you would do if you had a child that was out of control.  You have plenty to say about everything but what to do about the problem."

My son was "out of control" for a while, according to your definition of what your dauther did (by the way, you said she was an addict...calling bullshit again.."using all kinds of drugs" does not an addict make)

Oh yeah, he is getting ready to enter graduate school now...all without the help of "the program".

Much like 99 percent of america, he made it thru his hard knocks.

Believe in yourself,and believe in your daughter. You are only powerless if you believe you are.

[DC]

I appreciate your 4 cents, I really do.  The things that you mention are all sound ideas.  What if i told you that I hid everything, all the time, and still money and items came up missing?  What if I told you I had daily progress reports set up with her teachers and she still continued to cut class and fail?  That she didn't care anymore.  What if i told you that I did work on assignments with her and try to help her with her grades?
These problems are all associated with behavior related to taking drugs.  I am saying that I had her seeing psychologists and psychiatrists, took her to group therapy, damn near did everything I could.  I can't think of anything I didn't try, and I still failed.  
She is not afraid to talk about GT, we have had many discussions.  I even told her that I would pull her from the program if there was anything she felt she couldn't tell me, she understands this.  She is adament that there is no abuse.  She has no bruises, she doesn't come home upset, but more like the little girl she used to be before the drugs.  This program is close, there would be talk about things going on, but there is none.
I guess I am asking the wrong people.None of you believe the things I believe (regarding the disease of addiction).  through my observation of GT, I was curious to see why you all felt the way you do.  My conclusions are that none of you are addicts, making it impossible to understand the concept.  And also that you were put in your programs against your will and now still hold on to the grudge.  I will also say that I do believe that in the times that you were in these programs they were probably a bit different.  That maybe they did abuse you, I'm sorry about that.  No child should be abused.  i do not see the point that I am in fact abusing my daughter, I see it as saving her life.
Thanks again

[GregFL]

by the way, all joking aside, my sincere regrets for your daughter being raped. People close to me have endured it and survived and it traumatic and affects many things including self worth and fear.

I have personally witnessed people in TC "treatment" being called sluts and whores "on the streets". I really really hope that she didn't get this piled on top of her after enduring the humiliation of rape.

And don't bother asking her...she isn't allowed to tell you, and if she does and it gets back will have serious repercutions heaped further on top of her.

Are you sure you are doing the right thing?

[GregFL]

My son stole from me as well.  Life isn't perfect DC, and you can't force people to change inside.

Believe in her, even when it is hard. Put in the time. Chances are things will come out okay. The program is not improving those odds, only screwing up what is left of her childhood. It is NOT a normal way to grow up.

I do this, post on this and the seed discussion forum, not because I need to, but because I think it makes a difference. It is my way of giving back. Many many people have gone thru these programs and come up with nary a scratch. Others come out with severe physc and emotional scars. Others with family problems that last and last.

Why risk it?  Try another approach. Bring your daughter home...

[DC]

My daughter does not talk about her rape in group.  we have been over this together.  She is being counseled by a licensed professional.  That is the only way I would let them handle it.
I did have ground rules anonymous, i did stick with them.  I was consistant.  She just kept breaking the rules.  Why is it that you only blame me?  I am not your parent.  I honestly believe that i did the best I could, and I continue to do the best i can.  There is no reason to slam AA's 4th step, or even me.  I want solutions not more conflict.

[GregFL]

It is the Process that causes these kids to change that is abusive. The few people that got thrown to flooors ( I never did) or beat up (I never was) do not tell the story that you need to be told.

The process of changing your mind and being forced to think in a certain fashion, and accept only black and white stories about your pre and post program life is what is abusive.

I am not sure you will get this, but this the message we have tried, and failed, to get to you.

[GregFL]

anon was me, I forgot to log on. It is my son that is going to graduate school next semester.

[DC]

Thanks Greg, I know that what you said is sincere and I appreciate it.
I cannot say what I will do at this point, but you all have raised some very valid points.  I still believe things a bit differently than you, but maybe now I have some good references to start looking up.  yes, I saved the links to my favorites and have begun to read a few.  So I can honestly say that I have an open mind.
I know that you have in mind to disuade people from making the same choice as your parents as well as maybe something theraputic, so from the heart I do appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

So let your daughter fall and learn from her own mistakes. Oh you are very wrong about the addiction thing. I do belive in it and I do believe in AA for WILLING participants if that is what they feel helps them. What I don't like is that kids are incarcerated in these abusive places. It will take about 10 years or so before your daughter comes to terms with the mental abuse of this program.

What I'm saying is that YOU as a parent could not have did everything perfect because these types of problems do not manifest over night. Okay you stuck by the rules, but clearly there is something that happened in your daughter's life to make decisions to practice risky behaviors.

Also do not forget she is a teen and many teens do stuff like this and as time goes on they live and learn. Let her learn. I think you do have doubts about her program or else you would not be here.

[GregFL]

On 2005-02-03 13:30:00, DC wrote:

"Thanks Greg, I know that what you said is sincere and I appreciate it.

I cannot say what I will do at this point, but you all have raised some very valid points.  I still believe things a bit differently than you, but maybe now I have some good references to start looking up.  yes, I saved the links to my favorites and have begun to read a few.  So I can honestly say that I have an open mind.

I know that you have in mind to disuade people from making the same choice as your parents as well as maybe something theraputic, so from the heart I do appreciate it."

Thank you. That is all we ask, is that you have an open mind.