Money - Answer to Antigen

[cleveland]

Reply to Antigen "was Art intentionally recruiting wealthy heirs? And what was the point if he was going to pressure them into disowning their families anyway? Or is that just something that got out of control? Like maybe he expected the families to come along and kick down great sacks of loot?"

OK, I know there were some wealthy families, and that the 'admission fee' was $2000 in 1978, when I went in, and that there were donations and federal money...but I don't think money was the big motivator.

First of all, Art was incredibly frugal. Personally, he owned an old boat - a very nice one, to be sure, but it was apparently a wreck when he got it - and he lived in nice housing. But he didn't own a home until later, about 1982 I think. And it was nice, very. But he lived there with other senior staff. He had a nice car, but it wasn't that nice. It was a new silver Buick in my day. If you ate at the Seed you knew that the food was not expensive!

But this morning I was thinking about the 'inner circle.' We were not supposed to care about material things but most of the top dogs spent a lot of energy making money. Some of them have likely made good money since - they were in law, real estate, sales and insurance. As far as I know, Art never asked them for money although some may have made donations. He never asked for money from me, just that I kick in for the group home expenses. But I wasn't part of the inner circle.

My feeling is that there may have been some money, and maybe it was a lot. I think the heirs to wealth that joined sometimes had family support and other times not. I don't think Art cashed in on this.  And I think Art turned down a lot of federal support in order to retain his independence. This may not have been true of other Seed offshoots. If he had wanted to cash in, he could have.

I think it was ultimately about power, control and being the center of his own world. Art just wanted to do everything his own way because he's sure he's smarter than everyone else, and all those around him support him in this.

[Antigen]

On 2004-09-09 12:47:00, cleveland wrote:

I think it was ultimately about power, control and being the center of his own world. Art just wanted to do everything his own way because he's sure he's smarter than everyone else, and all those around him support him in this.

I won't argue w/ you there. I've always thought it was about power w/ Art. But the money was always important too, if only as a means to an end. That cheap food you ate was donated; much of it by my dad's friend, who owned a deli in Pompano. A parent, who was a wealthy doctor, donated a million dollar mansion which Art and Shelly probably still own. They were constantly begging for mo' money. Always passing the plate.

The reason why Art lost the federal expansion funding was that the Ervin Commission (on the Federal role in behavior modification) made informed consent a prerequisite to that funding. Art couldn't go along w/ that because it would require that new recruites be told specific aspects of how the program works; essentially, that they would be mentally broken down and then bullied into accepting and internalizng Seed culture.

All told, millions upon million went in. It didn't go for food, housing, trained staff, comfy buildings or any other obvious expense. Those things were all either donated or not provided.

So... where'd the money go? Really, where is it? I think Art invested in local politics. The Semblers went large w/ the same formula, investing in national and international politics.

History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan

[GregFL]

Art Showed up as officer in many corporations owned by or run by seedlings in Ft Lauderdale.

Those staff houses that you donated to?  Owned by staff members and perhaps paid for by the people living there. Some ex staffers own many houses in broward.

The lawyers that were staffers? Rumoured that Art paid their ways  thru college or assisted greatly.

Insurance agency by a staffer? Art was a corporate officer of an insurance agency in Broward.

I think you get the idea.

Art is listed as having holding companies as florida corporations. Look your favorite ex staffer up by name and see just how they suffer financially today.


http://www.sunbiz.org/corpweb/inquiry/corioff.html


and here, look up the property they own in broward county...

http://www.bcpa.net/Includes/Inc_RecName.cfm

I believe the Seed was a money machine.




[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-09 15:53 ][ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-09 15:57 ][ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-09-09 16:00 ]

[cleveland]

Very interesting. It looks to me like most of the corporations have been dissolved; a pretty quick search indicates nothing currently active.

I could not find much property registered to individuals, but what was there was substantial.

Yes, those boys were working hard on making money. Supposedly to help other people - spread the word. Well, it's just a small hard core group and a rabid spinnoff - seem straight, inc. and varients were even more abusive and corrupt.

I do believe that Art & Co. are true believer in the creed; they made money for sure, but I think in general were frugal, at least during my tenure.

I think it's the idea of money, rather than enjoying it, that operates here. Plus, this communal kind of thing and the denial of needs. Spartan. But that's debatable. And if Art was involved in politics beyond his own ambitions - I don't think he trusts anyone but his core group. If they are involved politically than I am sure he is too. The head of the pack.

Everything done as a tight little paranoid group, without dissent or debate, top down. That's the Seed way!

[GregFL]

In addition to properties in their personal names, some have "holding companies", that is, corporations that own the properties.


When you start following the money, you begin to get an idea how self serving the whole thing was.