Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[Anne Bonney]

So, why did you send your "daughter" away, if not for drug/alcohol abuse?

[Whooter]

Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.

Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits.  Their diagnosis can be way off.  If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends.  I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.



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[Whooter]

There is, but you'd never allow it.

To give my true identity?  You know that would not be wise, Anne.  Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.



...

[Dysfunction Junction]

No need for Whooter to prove who he is.  That's done already.  He has already admitted to all of the inside details of Mike Reuben's placement including exactly where he got treatment prior to the program, who referred him and all the details about his academics before placement as well.  It's sorry to have to see Whooter try to pretend he has a daughter and that "if only he could prove" he wasn't John Reuben then he, dammit, *tears streaming down his cheeks* he would do just that, Anne.

Gimme a break already.  Just read the below posts where Whooter tells all of it in his own words.  He's just a lying asshole using Fornits to try to do damage control for his floundering program referral business.  It's sad to watch as I admitted, but it's what the "true believers" will do to cover for their precious programs.  Whooter even made up children he didn't have to hold them out as "true program success stories."  That's a level of sickness most of us could never fathom, but hr did it and confessed to it.

when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.

Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral?  Was he forced to go?

3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember.  A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him.  He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.

Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.  

Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information.  We're all ears.

Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:

Prior to ASR  the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him.  As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path.  He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales.  He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can.  The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.

How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?

Hmmmm.....  Getting more interesting as we go...

Funny.  I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before.  I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.

If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?

That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post.  But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...

Live Music Junky

...on John Reuben's MySpace page.

Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):

John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.  
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.  

"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?

I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced."  Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."

Children: I don't want kids

Yeah, no shit.  I think we knew that already.

Hometown: Philadelphia

"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?

I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.

I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.

He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.

Malden, eh?  I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?

24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
Users posting from this IP address
TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
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Other IP addresses this user has posted from
24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]

IP Address   Country   Region   City   Latitude/Longitude   ZIP Code   Time Zone
    24.41.10.XXX  UNITED STATES   MASSACHUSETTS   MALDEN   42.4305-71.0574   02148 -05:00
   Net Speed   ISP   Domain
DSL   EARTHLINK INC   EARTHLINK.NET

   IDD Code   Area Code   Weather Station
1   781   USMA0228 - MALDEN

Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter.  It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.

And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address?  "Swampscott, MA."

Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?

Catherine Reuben!

Just "coincidences" I suppose...?

Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.

Why would anyone believe a single word this congenital liar utters here?  Makes no sense.  It's all phony.

[Anne Bonney]

Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.

Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits.  Their diagnosis can be way off.  If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends.  I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.

Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.  It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation.  I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard.  It drove me nuts!  See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me.  I believed what they told me about myself.  But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite.   They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people.  No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives.   When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal.  I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind.  They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do.  Then the light bulb went off.  I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense.  By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.

It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it.  I thank God for the people I met after Straight.   I never would have made it through without them.  My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids.  For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (great article, btw) .  There's a culture to this.....an entire movement.  It's not just "this program" or "that one".  It's the whole of it.  It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'.  It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.

Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap.  You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did.  You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development.   If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.

[Anne Bonney]

There is, but you'd never allow it.

To give my true identity?  You know that would not be wise, Anne.  Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.

Well, If you are not John Reuben you can have that easily verified here without giving away who you are, but if you are John Reuben, well.....you've already made yourself sort of a public figure, right?  I mean, you're the head of a non-profit organization to raise money to help kids.  So, since you're not Reuben...you've got nothing to lose, right?

If you're really not then no, I wouldn't want you to give away your identity, but if you are.......then if you believe so much in what you do, and raise funds in order to send kids away, then put your damn name on it.

[Whooter]

Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.  It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation.  I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard.  It drove me nuts!  See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me.  I believed what they told me about myself.  But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite.   They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people.  No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives.   When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal.  I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind.  They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do.  Then the light bulb went off.  I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense.  By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.

It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it.  I thank God for the people I met after Straight.   I never would have made it through without them.  My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids.  For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (great article, btw) .  There's a culture to this.....an entire movement.  It's not just "this program" or "that one".  It's the whole of it.  It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'.  It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.

Thats a big ordeal Anne and I could take the position you take on me and my daughter and decide that the evidence so far points to that you would have done far worse if you had never gone to straight and done far better if you had applied yourself and tried to take what straight offered to your own advantage.  
You have the right to view what I say anyway you want to just like I can.  I can tell you straight out that I never made a dime off of the industry and have paid them over $100,000.  I am not this person Reuben nor was I Peter Durham or any of the others.  You can chose to believe me or not, just like I can chose to believe your story.

Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap.  You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did.  You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development.   If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.

I saw my daughter grow up before my eyes and also saw her fall and get lost.  After the program she found herself again and has been doing great in leaps and bounds.  Its been more than 5 years so any brain washing would have warn off so that never occurred and she hasn't needed therapy or medication in years.  ASR got her interested in school and interested in herself again.  She has better self esteem and matured beyond her years during the time she spent at ASR.



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[Whooter]

There is, but you'd never allow it.

To give my true identity?  You know that would not be wise, Anne.  Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.

Well, If you are not John Reuben you can have that easily verified here without giving away who you are,

How?



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[Anne Bonney]

Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?

I am not sure how this relates.  There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.

Is it true or not?  There are many people what would dispute that it "doesn't relate".  There are many people who would say that the LGAT-type "seminars" he was exposed to directly or indirectly contributed to how he was feeling, if he took his own life.  That, in itself, is relevant to and worth of debate.

[Whooter]

Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?

I am not sure how this relates.  There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.

Is it true or not?  There are many people what would dispute that it "doesn't relate".  There are many people who would say that the LGAT-type "seminars" he was exposed to directly or indirectly contributed to how he was feeling, if he took his own life.  That, in itself, is relevant to and worth of debate.

I do agree it is worth a debate.  But I am curious as to how I could prove I am not this Reuben guy without revealing who I am.  Did you have a suggestion?



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[Anne Bonney]

Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.  It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation.  I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard.  It drove me nuts!  See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me.  I believed what they told me about myself.  But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite.   They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people.  No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives.   When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal.  I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind.  They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do.  Then the light bulb went off.  I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense.  By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.

It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it.  I thank God for the people I met after Straight.   I never would have made it through without them.  My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids.  For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (great article, btw) .  There's a culture to this.....an entire movement.  It's not just "this program" or "that one".  It's the whole of it.  It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'.  It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.

Thats a big ordeal Anne and I could take the position you take on me and my daughter and decide that the evidence so far points to that you would have done far worse if you had never gone to straight and done far better if you had applied yourself and tried to take what straight offered to your own advantage.  
You have the right to view what I say anyway you want to just like I can.  I can tell you straight out that I never made a dime off of the industry and have paid them over $100,000.  I am not this person Reuben nor was I Peter Durham or any of the others.  You can chose to believe me or not, just like I can chose to believe your story.

Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap.  You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did.  You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development.   If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.

I saw my daughter grow up before my eyes and also saw her fall and get lost (as did my father).  After the program she found herself again and has been doing great in leaps and bounds.  Its been more than 5 years (but you said that she had some issues after getting out, which could be described as her 'deprogramming' herself) so any brain washing would have warn off (yes, which is why "she" improved) so that never occurred and she hasn't needed therapy or medication in years.  (right, she became 'deprogrammed' a lot more quickly than I did and figured things out on her own) ASR got her interested in school and interested in herself again.  She has better self esteem and matured beyond her years during the time she spent at ASR.

Above ^^^in blue, me.


Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning?  What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?  

So, what I got out of your post was that your "daughter" ended up doing well.  No evidence, either way, that she would've done better or worse with a program.   She had a few problems in life, before and after according to you, and got them straightened out.  However, I gave ample evidence of the exact opposite happening in Straight, because of the same methods that are used today, and you have nothing to say about that.  You've nothing to say about the LGATs or how the accomplish this 'coerced reprogramming'.  

You have no idea what made your "daughter" end up figuring things out.  Correlation does not equal causation.

[Whooter]

Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning?

We will never know.  The same as your path if you never went to straight.

What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?  

Other than what I mentioned above I dont want to go into specifics on her issues.

So, what I got out of your post was that your "daughter" ended up doing well.  No evidence, either way, that she would've done better or worse with a program.   She had a few problems in life, before and after according to you, and got them straightened out.  However, I gave ample evidence of the exact opposite happening in Straight, because of the same methods that are used today, and you have nothing to say about that.  You've nothing to say about the LGATs or how the accomplish this 'coerced reprogramming'.

I dont believe she was reprogrammed or brainwashed.  LGAT's can be extremely intense or fairly benign.  They are used all over the country by some of out largest corporations.  Do I believe LGAT's can be hurtful?  yes.  But they can be helpful also is used correctly.  A few pain killers can ease the pain, too many can kill you.  You just need to moderate and apply it properly.

 spoke to her about her progress and what she was going through,  she had a therapist who communicated with her therapist at home

You have no idea what made your "daughter" end up figuring things out.  Correlation does not equal causation.

I agree we will never know, none of us will never know what would happen if we took a different path.  All I can say is I knew her and saw what the program had done for her.  The turn around would never have occurred if left to her own path.



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[RobertBruce]

When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.

I'm always interested in open discussion. What I'm not interested in is your attempts at damage control. I'm only going to have this conversation with you if you start being honest.

[RobertBruce]

Which has been my budding question to you Robert, are your motivations to slander, deny, fabricate and lie.

When you can form that info a complete sentence I'll address it.

[Whooter]

When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.

I'm always interested in open discussion. What I'm not interested in is your attempts at damage control. I'm only going to have this conversation with you if you start being honest.

I think it should go both ways, Bruce.  You need to be open to people explaining their motives and giving reasons behind their actions. You need to be open yourself.



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