Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[Whooter]

So your argument is that because you felt other people were lying, it was okay for you to do so as well?

I'm not interesting in hearing about your motivations, or your attempts to spin your actions by claiming you were "adding balance". I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.

Did you lie?

When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.



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[DannyB II]

So your argument is that because you felt other people were lying, it was okay for you to do so as well?

I'm not interesting in hearing about your motivations, or your attempts to spin your actions by claiming you were "adding balance". I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.

Did you lie?

Which has been my budding question to you Robert, are your motivations to slander, deny, fabricate and lie.

[Anne Bonney]

So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?

The same as the woman "Worried Anne", she was a stranger.  From my perspective everyone was lying on that thread.  People were saying I was this Reuben guy, someone else said his son wasnt allowed to go to his mothers funeral etc.  If you go back and read the thread you will see it was intended and written to attack this family.  There were no honest intentions there that I could see.  I did my best to counter the hatred written towards them.

Doesn't explain how you knew such intimate details of the Reubens.   In one small way, I actually feel sorry for you.  It's only my opinion, but I do think you are John Reuben and I can't imagine the guilt that you must live with (and do your best to deny) everyday.   There's no getting around that putting someone who is "troubled" into a situation where they're going to be humiliated and degraded (LGATs) is going to hurt them and hurt them badly.  As I've said to you plenty of times, unless you've been exposed to this "treatment", you'll never be able to understand the devastation it causes to the soul.

[Whooter]

So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?

The same as the woman "Worried Anne", she was a stranger.  From my perspective everyone was lying on that thread.  People were saying I was this Reuben guy, someone else said his son wasnt allowed to go to his mothers funeral etc.  If you go back and read the thread you will see it was intended and written to attack this family.  There were no honest intentions there that I could see.  I did my best to counter the hatred written towards them.

Doesn't explain how you knew such intimate details of the Reubens.   In one small way, I actually feel sorry for you.  It's only my opinion, but I do think you are John Reuben and I can't imagine the guilt that you must live with (and do your best to deny) everyday.   There's no getting around that putting someone who is "troubled" into a situation where they're going to be humiliated and degraded (LGATs) is going to hurt them and hurt them badly.  As I've said to you plenty of times, unless you've been exposed to this "treatment", you'll never be able to understand the devastation it causes to the soul.

I only know as much as I have read here.  The rest I filled in just like the rest of you did.  How did people know that the child didnt attend his mothers funeral for example?  People just made assumptions and filled in the gaps.  That is what I did.

I actually agree with you ,Anne, the guy lost a son and a wife and then his name is being thrown around here on fornits and then there are people like RobertBruce who is sending emails to the guys family and friends.  I feel for him too.

From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.



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[Anne Bonney]

From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.

No, we can't be assured of that at all  (it's one simple request....can't you at least stop doing that?  WE don't have a consensus on anything, yet you insist on trying to make it seem so) and I don't know how anyone in their right mind could come to that conclusion.  It might make you feel better to believe that, but those of us who have been thru it know that it is incredibly damaging and how much it hurts and for how long.

[Whooter]

From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.

No, we can't be assured of that at all  (it's one simple request....can't you at least stop doing that?  WE don't have a consensus on anything, yet you insist on trying to make it seem so) and I don't know how anyone in their right mind could come to that conclusion.  It might make you feel better to believe that, but those of us who have been thru it know that it is incredibly damaging and how much it hurts and for how long.

I have watched my daughter go through it, Anne.  I know how successful the program can be.  I have watched several other kids go through the program. I have  read the studies and reviews on the school.  I believe John Reubens son did very well there.  There is no doubt in my mind on this.  I do understand you are skeptical of this and dont believe it and that is fine.  But since this guy is closer to the situation than you and I.



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[Anne Bonney]

I have watched my daughter go through it, Anne.  

The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out?  The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own?  That daughter?

 I have watched several other kids go through the program.

Right.....you've watched from the sidelines and have no idea what these kids go thru on a daily basis behind closed doors.

I have  read the studies and reviews on the school.

You mean the parental surveys?  Please post these "studies" on the school.  Even if you already have, please for the benefit of us all, post them.

I believe John Reubens son did very well there.  There is no doubt in my mind on this.

Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?

I do understand you are skeptical of this and dont believe it and that is fine.  But since this guy is closer to the situation than you and I.

The father, whom I believe is you?  Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't.  It's a bitter pill to swallow.  The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom.  If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.

[Anne Bonney]

I just heard somewhere a good rationale as to why some parents do what they do (send their kids off) and then feel the way they do (as Whooter does).  So they can sit back in the aftermath and congratulate themselves on how much they tried to help.  No matter that what they were doing was actually harming the child.....it made the parents feel better and that's ultimately what mattered most.

[Whooter]

The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out? The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own? That daughter?

She didnt go back to her old ways when she got home.  She went back to her old friends and drank and smoked pot.  She was out of the party scene for about 15 months and it is natural for a teen to experiment and have fun.  She wasnt sent away for drinking or smoking pot.  She very quickly tired of her old friends because they just sat around too much for her and she had been use to being so busy that she moved on.



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[Whooter]

Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?

I am not sure how this relates.  There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.



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[Anne Bonney]

The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out? The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own? That daughter?

She didnt go back to her old ways when she got home.  She went back to her old friends and drank and smoked pot.  She was out of the party scene for about 15 months and it is natural for a teen to experiment and have fun.

Funny, but that's what so many of them get shipped off for.  That's what so many programs advertise about.  That's on so many of their useless "online questionnaires".

 She wasnt sent away for drinking or smoking pot.  She very quickly tired of her old friends because they just sat around too much for her and she had been use to being so busy that she moved on.

And what makes you think "she" wouldn't have otherwise?  What was "she" sent away for?

[Whooter]

The father, whom I believe is you? Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't. It's a bitter pill to swallow. The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom. If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.

The same logic could be applied to you.  You went through a program got out and had problems.  Who are you going to blame yourself?  No way.  It has to be the programs and your fathers fault.  You are too close to the situation to have an unbiased point of view.  Maybe if you had applied yourself you would have not had the difficulty in the program that you claim to have had.  But you can only see what you want.  Your logic works both ways.
Anne, I don’t profit from any of this and I am not this Reuben guy.  If there were a way I could prove it I would.  But it is what it is.  I could believe you were a waitress from Iowa just pretending to be survivor for kicks.  That applies to all posters here.  We are all anonymous.



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[Whooter]

And what makes you think "she" wouldn't have otherwise?  What was "she" sent away for?

I would rather not get into that here on this thread.  She had dropped out of school, was partying some but not any more than I did at her age,  but we lost communication and she had given up on school and a few other issues.  We worked locally which didnt help so we turned to out placement.  It turned out to be the right move.  I agree it is not for everyone.  each situation and school is different.



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[Whooter]

Funny, but that's what so many of them get shipped off for. That's what so many programs advertise about. That's on so many of their useless "online questionnaires".

I have read that too.  There are many parents who over react and panic when their kid smokes pot but this isnt the norm from what I have seen.



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[Anne Bonney]

The father, whom I believe is you? Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't. It's a bitter pill to swallow. The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom. If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.

The same logic could be applied to you.  You went through a program got out and had problems.  Who are you going to blame yourself?  No way.

Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off.  I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen.  And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight.  The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.

 

It has to be the programs and your fathers fault.  You are too close to the situation to have an unbiased point of view.

Except that pesky PTSD diagnosis.

 Maybe if you had applied yourself you would have not had the difficulty in the program that you claim to have had.

Ah...the old standard.  "If you had applied yourself".  I "graduated".  And I didn't have near the "difficulty" ( wasn't nearly as abused as others) because I never resisted.  I was compliant and the effects were still devastating, according not only to me, but the many therapists that I saw after getting out.

Anne, I don’t profit from any of this and I am not this Reuben guy.  If there were a way I could prove it I would.

There is, but you'd never allow it.