Author Topic: Taylor Hurst  (Read 11909 times)

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Offline DKincaidCFS

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2010, 11:28:12 AM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training.

As someone who studies this professionally, I can assure you that these two types of "behavior modification" are vastly different.  This analogy is obtuse at best.  

Toilet training obvioulsy is not "behavior modification."  It is exactly what its name implies: training.  The child has no knowledge of toileting and is trained to use the potty.  This is completely different from modifying the behavior of adults and subadults who already have certain views and understandings of the world and their place in it.  They behave according to their own paradigms that they realized over a long time via experience.  

Changing the ingrained behaviors of this set of people is a completely different ballgame than teaching a youngster to use the potty.
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Offline Ursus

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Re: toilet training vs. psyche rehaul
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2010, 11:38:41 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Yep. I was gonna say: Funny that you should mention that, Whooter, since these areas are precisely what many folks accuse them of destroying. Why is that?
You may feel this way because many here on fornits are distant from their families.  I have seen the process and the results and they work towards bringing families together.  Some kids may choose to not work in this area and stay distant from their families.  Programs will not work unless the child puts in some effort.
Always the "fault" of the child, and never that of the program, eh? How facile can one get?

Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training. Although I can't really speak for him, it appears that Whooter does not believe that program BM (thought reform) is wrong, or inherently psychologically invasive, or potentially damaging in and of itself.
I don’t think you could find many professionals at all which would say that Behavior Modification is damaging.

Toilet training is Behavior Modification.  It can be abusive if you beat the kid or it can be gentile depending on how you choose to implement it.  Learning to put clothes on before leaving the house is behavior modification.  There is nothing inherently bad about this.
There is actually quite a profound difference between learning to modify one's external behavior, and revamping one's internal psyche and self-identity. Especially when that latter process involves a "break them down, then build them back up" modus operandi that is imposed on one by others. I don't think you'll find many professionals who'd equate these two processes.
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 11:41:48 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Yep. I was gonna say: Funny that you should mention that, Whooter, since these areas are precisely what many folks accuse them of destroying. Why is that?

You may feel this way because many here on fornits are distant from their families.  I have seen the process and the results and they work towards bringing families together.  Some kids may choose to not work in this area and stay distant from their families.  Programs will not work unless the child puts in some effort.

I am very close with my family, with the exception of my mother, who locked me in a place that tried to murder me in such a way that my body would remain "alive".  As soon as she acknowledges this, I will resume civil relations with her.  Unfortunately she is still brainwashed and still convinced that denying me all human rights was the right thing to do because I was skipping school.  She was never very maternal in the first place, and that program just turned her into another fascist program monster.

Quote
Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training. Although I can't really speak for him, it appears that Whooter does not believe that program BM (thought reform) is wrong, or inherently psychologically invasive, or potentially damaging in and of itself.

I don’t think you could find many professionals at all which would say that Behavior Modification is damaging.

On the contrary, there are several books available on this forum by professionals who say exactly that.  Furthermore, all of us with the exception of Whooter are uniquely educated on the subject, having experienced it firsthand.  Who's stories are more believable?   Survivors who have lived through these places, or a shill with obvious program affiliations?

Toilet training is Behavior Modification.  It can be abusive if you beat the kid or it can be gentile depending on how you choose to implement it.  Learning to put clothes on before leaving the house is behavior modification.  There is nothing inherently bad about this.

...

The kids in these programs are not three year olds, why do you insist on this comparison?  What do you have against treating teenagers with respect and dignity?  If you treat them like they are a piece of garbage, why should you be surprised when they act accordingly?  Don't you think this degradation might be connected to the myriad reports of suicides of former residents or "students"?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2010, 11:54:31 AM »
Quote from: "DKincaidCFS"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Whooter has, in the past, repeatedly likened the behavior modification used in programs (i.e., thought reform) to the behavior modification used in toilet training.

As someone who studies this professionally, I can assure you that these two types of "behavior modification" are vastly different.  This analogy is obtuse at best.  

Toilet training obvioulsy is not "behavior modification."  It is exactly what its name implies: training.  The child has no knowledge of toileting and is trained to use the potty.  This is completely different from modifying the behavior of adults and subadults who already have certain views and understandings of the world and their place in it.  They behave according to their own paradigms that they realized over a long time via experience.  

Changing the ingrained behaviors of this set of people is a completely different ballgame than teaching a youngster to use the potty.

You should go back and check your text books.

Behavior Modification is central to working with toddlers in changing their present behavior (diapers) to a new behavior (Toilet)

Link

Remember that behavior modification works best when there is positive reinforcement for behaviours you want and undesirable behaviours are ignored

Link

Toddler behavior modification therapy revolves around the practice of giving rewards for changes in behavior that are socially acceptable. Most parents who use the progress chart feel that it has greatly helped their toddler to calm down and become less irritable through the method of positive reinforcement. It must be advised, though, that a progress chart must be used only to indicate progress and not for negative reinforcement by pulling off stickers or other forms of punishment for unacceptable behavior.

Link

The sticker sets are an improved and portable toilet training aide and behavioral modification teaching and learning tool system.
Link

There are no fixed rules. However, the technique that works the best is behavior modification with a primary and secondary reward.
Behavior modification works and is a powerful training tool.



...
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Offline Guest3

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2010, 12:01:05 PM »
Taylor Hurst was not sent there to help with "academic" issues. If he needed assistance with academic issues his parents would have just hired a tutor.

Taylor Hurst is a prime example of how HLA/Ridge Creek fails to help children placed in their care. End of story.
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Offline Ursus

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Domestic murders in Massachusetts on pace to surpass 2009
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2010, 12:02:34 PM »
Circumventing the focus a lil away from the toilet training issue for a moment, here's the first article mentioned in the OP:

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Domestic murders in Massachusetts on pace to surpass 2009

By Danielle Ameden/Daily News staff
The MetroWest Daily News

Posted Aug 14, 2010 @ 11:59 PM



Katie MacDougall was killed by her fiance in 2007. Photo contributed

Katie MacDougall's family and co-workers at the Staples corporate headquarters in Framingham never saw any black-and-blues or other red flags.

The 23-year-old was fun, optimistic and giddy about the baby she was expecting with her fiance. To her colleagues, he "seemed like a nice guy."

So the news that Taylor Hurst strangled to death the young mother-to-be in their Worcester apartment on March 4, 2007, came as a shock.

"It's still something that I don't understand, I just can't get my head around," said Libby Dawe, who worked with MacDougall at 500 Staples Drive.

So far this calendar year, there have been 27 cases of domestic violence-related deaths in the state.

There were a total 28 in 2009.

Jane Doe Inc., the state's nonprofit coalition against sexual assault and domestic violence, is also tracking two new cases that could bring this year's count to 29.

One is the murder of Heather Alleyne, 19, of Framingham. Police found the mother of two babies stabbed to death in her Oak Terrace condo last Monday.

Although authorities have not yet ruled it a domestic homicide, Alleyne's husband, Kyle Alleyne, is wanted by police as a person of interest in the case.

For abuse victims, stories like these are frightening reminders.

"It can be very scary because I think what we hear from people is, 'Oh my God, that could be me' or 'That could have been me,"' said Mary Gianakis, director of Voices Against Violence in Framingham.

Also last week, Joseph Ventola, 66, pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in the 2007 stabbing death of his wife Esther, 60, in their Milford home. He was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility for parole after 15 years.

In MacDougall's murder, Hurst was sentenced in 2008 to 18 to 20 years in prison after he pleaded guilty to manslaughter.

While a domestic homicide, her family believes MacDougall's death was a horrific, isolated incidence of violence and not part of a pattern of abuse.

Her older brother, Damien, said Hurst appears to have snapped, partly due to his drug abuse, unemployment and the stress of settling down.

"I'm not sure if Taylor felt comfortable becoming a father and a husband all at once," Damien MacDougall said.

Authorities said Hurst admitted to using crack cocaine, and after the murder he sold a sapphire and diamond ring he had given MacDougall to buy drugs.

She was three months pregnant with a baby boy when she died.

Her family forgave Hurst and supported the plea deal accepted by a Worcester Superior Court judge.

"Katie loved him and he was going to be the father of my nephew and my mother's grandchild," Damien MacDougall, 36, of Plymouth, said last week.

"We've seen or heard so many stories about people whose lives are devastated by something like this," he said. "We knew the answer wasn't in bitterness or anger."

Dawe and co-workers Diane Choquette and Amy McGrady at Staples last week recalled their former colleague as a happy person and huge Red Sox fan who loved helping people and driving demolition cars on the weekend.

At Staples, she worked for a temp agency doing purchasing, but she talked about going back to school to become a nurse.

She and Hurst, a native of Louisiana, were in a long-distance relationship until they moved in together in Worcester and soon after became engaged.

Her MySpace page is still active online, on which she talked about her life.

She listed her heroes as her family and showed off favorite pictures, including three of she and Hurst, smiling.

Friends continue to post messages there.

In January, one wrote, "Life just isn't fair Katie. I miss you every day."

A note from 2008 reads, "Happy Mother's Day love. I miss you."

At work, MacDougall sometimes hinted to colleagues she sometimes had trouble with Hurst. But she didn't give them any reason to worry or intervene.

MacDougall was optimistic, believing "she was going to love him so much he would change," Dawe said.

The colleagues say they met Hurst at a party thrown by one of the company's vendors around Thanksgiving in 2006.

"He was a nice guy," McGrady said. "He seemed like a nice guy."

To honor MacDougall's memory and fight domestic violence homicide, Staples has hosted a fundraiser carwash every June since the murder. The company donates about $2,000 in annual proceeds to Voices Against Violence.

"It's such an important cause," Dawe said. "It really is."

Voices Against Violence, a nonprofit program of the South Middlesex Opportunity Council, supports domestic violence victims and survivors.

"What we know is the money that is raised and donated to Voices helps us to do all of the things that reduce the chance there's going to be another tragedy in our community," Gianakis said.

The organization provides domestic violence and rape crisis services, including 1:1 counseling, a hotline service and advocacy and support groups, as well as outreach and education efforts.

On average, Voices serves 1,500 individuals a year, houses about 100 families at its confidential shelter and answers 3,000 hotline calls.

Voices Against Violence leads a team that works on high-risk abuse cases, bringing together advocates, the police, district attorney's office and probation and parole departments trying to prevent domestic violence homicides.

"It is said to be so predictable as to be preventable," Gianakis said.

Risk warning signs include threats to kill or harm, extreme jealousy, forced sex, controlling behavior, stalking and alcohol or drug abuse.

Gianakis said the high-risk team organized after a devastating 2006 murder.

Jeremias Bins, 32, was convicted in 2008 of bludgeoning his wife Carla Souza and stepson Caique, 11, to death with a hammer in their Framingham home.

She called 911 and asked police to "please" come because she was having a problem with her husband. When officers arrived less than 2 minutes later, she and the boy were lying in pools in blood.

He was sentenced to serve two consecutive life sentences at MCI-Cedar Junction without the chance of parole.

While people may wonder why victims stay in abusive relationships, Gianakis said the real question is why batterers do what they do.

"And how can we do a better job of holding them accountable?"

Victims often stay in an abusive relationship out of fear of retaliation violence if they leave, or to keep a family intact or for financial reasons.

Sometimes they hear the threat that even if they leave, "You will never be free," Gianakis said.

When domestic homicides occur, batterers sometimes use the news to intimidate their victims.

"They will say things like 'You better be careful or the next one will be you,"' Gianakis said. "It's a fear tactic. It's a threat. It's a way to really terrorize the victim."

She stressed that the violence is never the victim's fault.

'Perpetrating violence is always a choice," she said, "and it's not the victim's fault that they were on the receiving end of that."

For more information, contact Voices Against Violence at 508-820-0834 or http://www.smoc.org, or Jane Doe Inc. at 617-248-0922 or http://www.janedoe.org.

For help, call Voices Against Violence's confidential sexual assault and domestic violence hotline at 508-626-8686 or 1-800-593-1125, or SafeLink, the state's 24-hour hotline at 1-877-785-2020.

(Reporter Danielle Ameden can be reached at 508-626-4416 or dameden@cnc.com.)


Copyright 2010 The MetroWest Daily News.
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Offline Ursus

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Boyfriend charged with slaying in Elm Street apartment
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2010, 12:10:42 PM »
The Worcester Telegram & Gazette actually followed this murder quite closely. I believe the following article may have been their first day of coverage:

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Worcester Telegram & Gazette
Monday, March 5, 2007

Boyfriend charged with slaying in Elm Street apartment

By Mike Elfland · TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF


Taylor Hurst, charged with the murder of a 23-year-old woman, at his arraignment in Central District Court this morning.
(T&G Staff /MARK C. IDE)


WORCESTER —  A 23-year-old woman was found dead in an Elm Street apartment last night, the apparent victim of an attack by her boyfriend.

The boyfriend, Taylor Hurst, 24, was in Central District Court this morning to face a murder charge. He pleaded not guilty and was ordered held without bail.

Authorities said the woman may have been dead since Friday.

"Everything indicates it was a couple of days," said police Sgt. Kerry F. Hazelhurst.

Authorities have identified the woman as Katherine MacDougall. Court records indicate she was strangled to death.

She was three months pregnant, police said.

The body of Ms. MacDougall was discovered about 10 last night by police who had been asked by a relative to do a well-being check, according to authorities. Family members had not heard from the woman for a few days.

"Her mother called out of concern," Sgt. Hazelhurst. "When officers got there, the place was in darkness, all locked up."

As some officers were making entry to the apartment, other officers were told to be on the lookout for the type of car in which the woman might be riding.

About the time officers entered the apartment and came across the body, other officers encountered the sought-after car in the area of Washington Square. Mr. Hurst was inside the vehicle. At the time, he had an open container of alcohol, and was taken into custody for a violation of a city ordinance.

Police questioned Mr. Hurst at police headquarters. He was charged with murder.

Ms. MacDougall and Mr. Hurst lived at Apt. 1, 90 Elm St.

Detectives are continuing their investigation this afternoon.

Scott J. Croteau of the Telegram & Gazette staff contributed to this report.


© 2010 Worcester Telegram & Gazette Corp.
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 12:15:16 PM »
Quote from: "Shadyacres"
I am very close with my family, with the exception of my mother, who locked me in a place that tried to murder me in such a way that my body would remain "alive". As soon as she acknowledges this, I will resume civil relations with her. Unfortunately she is still brainwashed and still convinced that denying me all human rights was the right thing to do because I was skipping school. She was never very maternal in the first place, and that program just turned her into another fascist program monster.

Sorry to hear this, Shaddy.  I have seen many families where the child was totally disconnected from their family and the program brought them together again.  My Daughter is an example of this also.  I think we can conclude that not all families and program are alike and we cannot generalize.

Quote
On the contrary, there are several books available on this forum by professionals who say exactly that. Furthermore, all of us with the exception of Whooter are uniquely educated on the subject, having experienced it firsthand. Who's stories are more believable? Survivors who have lived through these places, or a shill with obvious program affiliations?

I would like to see one.  I have always known BM to be an integral part of growing up and learning new and healthy behaviors.  How else would we all survive?  What other tools could parents use besides Behavior Modification methods.
We are exposed to external stimuli every day which constantly changes and molds our behavior.  There is nothing abusive or unnatural about it.

Quote
The kids in these programs are not three year olds, why do you insist on this comparison? What do you have against treating teenagers with respect and dignity? If you treat them like they are a piece of garbage, why should you be surprised when they act accordingly? Don't you think this degradation might be connected to the myriad reports of suicides of former residents or "students"?

I think you may be confusing me with another poster.  I never have treated teenagers like garbage.



...
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Offline DKincaidCFS

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 12:17:48 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
There is actually quite a profound difference between learning to modify one's external behavior, and revamping one's internal psyche and self-identity. Especially when that latter process involves a "break them down, then build them back up" modus operandi that is imposed on one by others. I don't think you'll find many professionals who'd equate these two processes.

This is a very good point and well taken.  I also believe you would not find a single professional willing to equate toilet training with troubled teen program behavior modification, despite the protestations of your resident "forum troll" who seems bent on disrupting the converstaion about this abused boy's subsequent criminal behavior.
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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2010, 12:25:43 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

I think you may be confusing me with another poster.  I never have treated teenagers like garbage.

...

You do this here, every day.  You question the validity of their accounts with absolutely no proof of any dishonesty on their part.  They are abuse victims, have you no conscience?
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2010, 12:42:10 PM »
Quote from: "DKincaidCFS"
Quote from: "Ursus"
There is actually quite a profound difference between learning to modify one's external behavior, and revamping one's internal psyche and self-identity. Especially when that latter process involves a "break them down, then build them back up" modus operandi that is imposed on one by others. I don't think you'll find many professionals who'd equate these two processes.

This is a very good point and well taken.  I also believe you would not find a single professional willing to equate toilet training with troubled teen program behavior modification, despite the protestations of your resident "forum troll" who seems bent on disrupting the converstaion about this abused boy's subsequent criminal behavior.

Actually it was Ursus who brought up the toilet training comparison.  If you take some time to read up on Behavior Modification you will find that it can be applied to toddlers as well as teenagers and adults.  Many programs use positive reinforcement to attain changes in the students behavior which is in-essence Behavior Modification.

Everyone works well as a group we get Pizza for dinner.....  If we all work together and get to the next leg to the trip we can break early and have some free time... If you make it to the next level you can get more freedoms etc.



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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2010, 12:54:52 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
 Many of these programs are designed to get the kid back on track, build up their self esteem and strengthen family ties.

You can believe that all you want but the exact opposite is what happens.



Quote
If something extremely traumatic occurs while they are in the program then I would agree.


Something traumatic occurred every single day that I was in Straight.


Quote
But again the program is designed to get the kids back on track.


No, it's really not.  It's designed to drain the parents wallets.

Quote
The kids are not traumatized.


You have no authority to speak on that since you've never been through a program.  They most definitely ARE traumatized.

Quote
After they get out they can choose to go back to their old way of life if they want but many chose not to because they were shown that they have control of their future and can be successful if they choose to.  If they want to go back and sit in their bedroom and do drugs the rest of their life then that is their choice.  The school cannot be blamed for that.

Such a double sided coin....if the kid does great, it's due to the "success" of the program, but if he fails, it's because he didn't apply himself enough and has NOTHING to do with the abuse he suffered AT the program.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2010, 01:07:48 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
You can believe that all you want but the exact opposite is what happens.

Actually you are wrong, Anne.  I believe it may not be true in your individual case or with straight.

Quote
Something traumatic occurred every single day that I was in Straight.

That is one of the reasons straight is closed.  

Quote
You have no authority to speak on that since you've never been through a program. They most definitely ARE traumatized.

Kids are not traumatized in todays programs.  You have never experienced a program of todays design and therefore have no valid basis for your opinion.

Quote
Such a double sided coin....if the kid does great, it's due to the "success" of the program, but if he fails, it's because he didn't apply himself enough....

Exactly, I think most everyone here on fornits has said that these kids are old enough to decide for themselves how their life should go.  Some even believe they should have a choice on whether or not they should attend a program even.
I believe, for the most part, that the child is mature enough after graduation to decide if they want to continue down a new path or the old path of destruction.  I don’t think the child should continue to blames others for their bad choices post graduation.



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Offline Shadyacres

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2010, 01:19:24 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote
You have no authority to speak on that since you've never been through a program. They most definitely ARE traumatized.

Kids are not traumatized in todays programs.  You have never experienced a program of todays design and therefore have no valid basis for your opinion.

...

Uh, by your own criteria, neither do you.  Being a parent who does this to your child does not qualify as "experiencing a program".  There are many posts here that prove you wrong Whooter, MANY kids have been traumatized by programs that still exist today.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Taylor Hurst
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2010, 01:23:23 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

That is one of the reasons straight is closed.  

And then re-opened under a different name.  The exact same shit that goes on today

Quote

Kids are not traumatized in todays programs.  You have never experienced a program of todays design and therefore have no valid basis for your opinion.

Well, when I hear the exact same things happening that happened to me way back then, it seems fairly reasonable to assume that not much, if anything, has changed....except superficially.  It's always the "kinder, gentler" version of some other program that got shut down or closed on it's own due to the horrible publicity.  Straight was billed as The Seed minus the abuse, but ended up being even more abusive than the Seed.  Then when Straight was shut down, suddenly KIDS opened up. Same staff, same techniques, just a different name to avoid the bad publicity of Straight.  Then when KIDS was shut down it became Pathways (I think....I'm not up on the chronology of the program names) but every time one closed down, another opened up using the exact same methods but they always swore they took the "good" from the closed down program and left out the "bad".  Bull-fucking-shit.

Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Such a double sided coin....if the kid does great, it's due to the "success" of the program, but if he fails, it's because he didn't apply himself enough....

Quote from: "Whooter"
Exactly, I think most everyone here on fornits has said that these kids are old enough to decide for themselves how their life should go.  Some even believe they should have a choice on whether or not they should attend a program even.
I believe, for the most part, that the child is mature enough after graduation to decide if they want to continue down a new path or the old path of destruction.  I don’t think the child should continue to blames others for their bad choices post graduation.

Why is it never, ever the programs fault with you?  When you fuck with someone's psyche.....their very core, especially at an age when they're developing who they are as separate beings from their parents, it causes deep, lasting damage.  I don't care how well intentioned it is or isn't.....when you force that kind of "treatment" on a kid, you fuck with their very soul.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa