Islam’s Invasion Ideology...

[Anne Bonney]

I understand that, I really do but would you have been as squeamish if it was Muslims handing out Islamic literature at a Christian Festival?  Cuz that's what happened.  Christians went to a Muslim Festival specifically to hand out Christian literature. Why?  What did they hope to accomplish?  Was it just stirring the pot?  How well would that have gone over if it was switched around?  That's supposed to be one of the beauties of this country....that you're free to worship as you see fit, or not at all.   I'm also reminded of the famous Ben Franklin quote.....They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Their intention is neither here nor there to me...

It's of interest to me.  

it's the fact that it happened, that the cops ran them off for nothing that i find troubling

Me too, fwiw.

(and that goes for either way, hypothetically; if it had been the other way, that is fucked as well).

Cool.

So who cares what their intention was. That is not the point at all.

Well, like I said....it's of interest to me.  It seems like some of the people just want to provoke a reaction.  While that doesn't excuse the reaction, the live and let live attitude appeals to me a lot more than poking the bear.

A couple of the Christians were Arabs that had converted to Christianity. As far as Islam, they're brainwashed to reject any religious literature that isn't Islamic...and this is why the cops were alerted..

And JudeoChristians aren't?

[Froderik]

Not to that extent they aren't; apparently it's written into their book to react like this... I don't know, maybe someone else has more info on this.

[heretik]

This is all very interesting (I mean that sincerely; there's a lot of good stuff here). Now let's focus on Islam and the correct political response to events in recent years. We have to examine the big picture -- the fact that the U.S. & Saudi Arabia have been doing business for more than 50 years, etc. Where does America go from here? I find it unsettling to hear about how squeamish the media can be about all of this, and I don't like hearing about stuff like that bullshit that went on up in Dearborn MI...(people getting run off for handing out Christian literature on the street).

I think we are kissing ass too much. Way too worried about offending people, when we should be concerned for our safety...

But hey,.. maybe 9/11 never really happened...they say the Holocaust may have been a myth, too..  

Talk about squeamish, they gave up the idea of capturing and killing Bin laden because of well over 50 years of business with Saudi Arabia. My opinion.
France came up with a great solution for young women wearing head scarfs ("Hijab's'')in schools, the answer was no. Basically they said as a country, we are France and we enjoy who we are and if you want to reside here in this country there are certain rules we have, please abide by them or move back to your country of origin.
We are a country founded on Judea Christian values, this is not to say we are all Christians.
We need to stop being confused about who we are and stand up and reclaim are American values.

[Anne Bonney]

Not to that extent they aren't;

Depends on the person.  I've met plenty that are.

apparently it's written into their book to react like this... I don't know, maybe someone else has more info on this.

See, that's just it.  I keep hearing people say that, and it may very well be true, but whenever I ask for a citation all I get is "some Muslim told me.......".  I'm just asking for the citation so I can read for myself.

France came up with a great solution for young women wearing head scarfs ("Hijab's'')in schools, the answer was no. Basically they said as a country, we are France and we enjoy who we are and if you want to reside here in this country there are certain rules we have, please abide by them or move back to your country of origin.

I completely agree with that.  I read about a Muslim woman who didn't want to take hers off for her driver's license photo.  Bull. Shit.

[BuzzKill]

This is all very interesting (I mean that sincerely; there's a lot of good stuff here). Now let's focus on Islam and the correct political response to events in recent years. We have to examine the big picture -- the fact that the U.S. & Saudi Arabia have been doing business for more than 50 years, etc. Where does America go from here? I find it unsettling to hear about how squeamish the media can be about all of this, and I don't like hearing about stuff like that bullshit that went on up in Dearborn MI...(people getting run off for handing out Christian literature on the street).

I think we are kissing ass too much. Way too worried about offending people, when we should be concerned for our safety...

But hey,.. maybe 9/11 never really happened...they say the Holocaust may have been a myth, too..  

OK - Anne and I can take our current debate elsewhere if she wants ;-)
I have read your latest and do have a comment or two - but I'll leave it for now.

As to the cops being called on the Arab Christians trying to witness their faith to their muslim brothers and sisters and the "what would Christians do" table turn question. . .

I am sure it would varie a great deal. Some Christian groups are seriously closed to all outside debate while others are much more open. The tightly closed sectarian types might very well call the police. The more open to dialoging would probably be delighted for the opportunity to witness to the Muslims.  

But how would the cops respond? My guess is they'd tell the up-tight Christians to shut up or risk arrest themselves.

[Froderik]

This is all very interesting (I mean that sincerely; there's a lot of good stuff here). Now let's focus on Islam and the correct political response to events in recent years. We have to examine the big picture -- the fact that the U.S. & Saudi Arabia have been doing business for more than 50 years, etc. Where does America go from here? I find it unsettling to hear about how squeamish the media can be about all of this, and I don't like hearing about stuff like that bullshit that went on up in Dearborn MI...(people getting run off for handing out Christian literature on the street).

I think we are kissing ass too much. Way too worried about offending people, when we should be concerned for our safety...

But hey,.. maybe 9/11 never really happened...they say the Holocaust may have been a myth, too..  

:bump:

[Stonewall]

This is all very interesting (I mean that sincerely; there's a lot of good stuff here). Now let's focus on Islam and the correct political response to events in recent years. We have to examine the big picture -- the fact that the U.S. & Saudi Arabia have been doing business for more than 50 years, etc. Where does America go from here? I find it unsettling to hear about how squeamish the media can be about all of this, and I don't like hearing about stuff like that bullshit that went on up in Dearborn MI...(people getting run off for handing out Christian literature on the street).

I think we are kissing ass too much. Way too worried about offending people, when we should be concerned for our safety...

But hey,.. maybe 9/11 never really happened...they say the Holocaust may have been a myth, too..  

Saudi Arabia is actually a very good example of what Muhammad wanted to create. Worldwide. As it stands the Kingdom is a very good example of Islam and what Islam creates and what Islam is all about.

You have a King who has the final word on all things. You have an Islamic Judiciary who carry out what they understand in regard to Islamic Law. The King can pardon anyone if public opinion rises against a decision from the Courts, or world opinion becomes involved. It is not a the same type of theocracy that Iran employs.

Saudi Arabia has been our "friend" since WWI. Through WWII, when that was not the policy of the Arab World, or Iran, who were Pro-Hitler. Also, during the Cold War they stood by us although the Arab World stood mainly with the Soviet Union. Iraq, Syria, Egypt, etc..

The 1967 War was a Soviet instigated event. And, a major disaster for the Arab World. Having lost the West Bank, Gaza, The Sinai, the Golan Heights, the Israeli Armed Forces decimated their foes.

Several major events have led us to this point. And, the only way to "fix" this is to understand what led us here.

Nasser went to war, in Egypt, with the Muslim Brotherhood. Expelling their leaders and many of their followers. Expelling them to Saudi Arabia among other places. Osama bin Laden was trained, in ideology, by Muhammad Qutb. His older brother, Sayyid Qutb, is the most influential Islamic leader for Al Qaeda types. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.. He was hung by Nasser, but his brother fled to Arabia and became a teacher to Osama bin Laden. After Nasser's death Anwar Sadat made a peace with the Muslim Brotherhood and began a war of attrition with Israel, dating between his taking over Egypt and the 1973 War.

So, the ideological basis for Al Qaeda is the Islamic thinker, Sayyid Qutb.

The Soviet War in Afghanistan, the Iranian Revolution, and the Camp David Peace Accords radicalized the Middle East. Camp David was enormous because it ended any possibility that the Arab World would defeat Israel using Arab Nationalism as a political force. No way could Israel be defeated without Egypt going to war against them. Sadat was Arab Nationalist. Not an Islamist. He was killed by Islamists.

The rise of the Islamists are the times we are living in.

Saudi Arabia has used this time very effectively. The support financially the building of Mosques and madrassas, worldwide, that teach their version of Islam. Sunni Islam. Salafi.

Hindsight is 20-20. The first Iraq War was a huge mistake for the United States. Allowing veterans from the Soviet Afghan War into the U.S., and Europe, was a mistake. The Arab governments refused to allow some radicals back into their countries and Europe took many of them, we took some. Omar Abdel-Rahman. A good example.

We cannot continue to fight this ideology using Political Correctness.

We have to get over this idea that there is a moderate Islam. And, an extreme Islam. There is only one Islam. There are those who follow Islam and there are those who don't. Yet both of those still call themselves Muslims. Really though it is a game being played with us.

I don't even understand what a moderate Muslim is? What is a moderate Vegetarian? One who eats meat? An extreme Vegetarian would be one who never eats meat? What is a moderate anything? Are moderate cannibals those who don't eat human flesh, they just trade recipes?

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

Then they go off... like this guy:

Suspect in plot to bomb U.S. subway was quiet, suburban Muslim

Hell of a nice guy...

Another good article I have seen recently...

Think Again: A double standard for Islam

Before we can figure out what to do, we have to be honest. No more PC. That does not mean attack Muslims, or seek to even harm them them at all. Just tell the truth. Learn the truth and have no fear in telling it, no matter where or when.

 

[Froderik]

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

[/size]

 :notworthy:

[heretik]

Saudi Arabia is actually a very good example of what Muhammad wanted to create. Worldwide. As it stands the Kingdom is a very good example of Islam and what Islam creates and what Islam is all about.

You have a King who has the final word on all things. You have an Islamic Judiciary who carry out what they understand in regard to Islamic Law. The King can pardon anyone if public opinion rises against a decision from the Courts, or world opinion becomes involved. It is not a the same type of theocracy that Iran employs.

Saudi Arabia has been our "friend" since WWI. Through WWII, when that was not the policy of the Arab World, or Iran, who were Pro-Hitler. Also, during the Cold War they stood by us although the Arab World stood mainly with the Soviet Union. Iraq, Syria, Egypt, etc..

The 1967 War was a Soviet instigated event. And, a major disaster for the Arab World. Having lost the West Bank, Gaza, The Sinai, the Golan Heights, the Israeli Armed Forces decimated their foes.

Several major events have led us to this point. And, the only way to "fix" this is to understand what led us here.

Nasser went to war, in Egypt, with the Muslim Brotherhood. Expelling their leaders and many of their followers. Expelling them to Saudi Arabia among other places. Osama bin Laden was trained, in ideology, by Muhammad Qutb. His older brother, Sayyid Qutb, is the most influential Islamic leader for Al Qaeda types. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.. He was hung by Nasser, but his brother fled to Arabia and became a teacher to Osama bin Laden. After Nasser's death Anwar Sadat made a peace with the Muslim Brotherhood and began a war of attrition with Israel, dating between his taking over Egypt and the 1973 War.

So, the ideological basis for Al Qaeda is the Islamic thinker, Sayyid Qutb.

The Soviet War in Afghanistan, the Iranian Revolution, and the Camp David Peace Accords radicalized the Middle East. Camp David was enormous because it ended any possibility that the Arab World would defeat Israel using Arab Nationalism as a political force. No way could Israel be defeated without Egypt going to war against them. Sadat was Arab Nationalist. Not an Islamist. He was killed by Islamists.

The rise of the Islamists are the times we are living in.

Saudi Arabia has used this time very effectively. The support financially the building of Mosques and madrassas, worldwide, that teach their version of Islam. Sunni Islam. Salafi.

Hindsight is 20-20. The first Iraq War was a huge mistake for the United States. Allowing veterans from the Soviet Afghan War into the U.S., and Europe, was a mistake. The Arab governments refused to allow some radicals back into their countries and Europe took many of them, we took some. Omar Abdel-Rahman. A good example.

We cannot continue to fight this ideology using Political Correctness.

We have to get over this idea that there is a moderate Islam. And, an extreme Islam. There is only one Islam. There are those who follow Islam and there are those who don't. Yet both of those still call themselves Muslims. Really though it is a game being played with us.

I don't even understand what a moderate Muslim is? What is a moderate Vegetarian? One who eats meat? An extreme Vegetarian would be one who never eats meat? What is a moderate anything? Are moderate cannibals those who don't eat human flesh, they just trade recipes?

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

Then they go off... like this guy:

Suspect in plot to bomb U.S. subway was quiet, suburban Muslim

Hell of a nice guy...

Another good article I have seen recently...

Think Again: A double standard for Islam

Before we can figure out what to do, we have to be honest. No more PC. That does not mean attack Muslims, or seek to even harm them them at all. Just tell the truth. Learn the truth and have no fear in telling it, no matter where or when.

 

Excellent read, thanks.
Islam does present a problem for the USA. When we try to fight them we have liberal theologians crying, why are we subjecting Islam to bias. This is what it must of felt like millenniums ago. When the Christian Crusades (Popes) were ruling the lands, no one could fight them politically or militarily.
Moderates are also dangerous, they muddy the waters.

[Stonewall]

Excellent read, thanks.
Islam does present a problem for the USA. When we try to fight them we have liberal theologians crying, why are we subjecting Islam to bias. This is what it must of felt like millenniums ago. When the Christian Crusades (Popes) were ruling the lands, no one could fight them politically or militarily.
Moderates are also dangerous, they muddy the waters.

Perhaps a lot of it is media driven. CNN and other major media also operate inside Islamic nations and they have to figure that into their reporting back home. Even if that means creating a false illusion about Islam to America, it saves reporters 'over there'.

For whatever reason we are being deceived by the media. And to many people what the media opinion is, it is also their lazy opinion.

[Anne Bonney]

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

[/size]

 :notworthy:

See, now this is what makes me feel like I'm supposed to hate all Muslims and if I don't, I'm a "traitor".  I've been called that to my face because I wouldn't join in harassing and degrading a woman dressed in a hijab (sp?) who was shopping.

[Shadyacres]

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

[/size]

 :notworthy:

See, now this is what makes me feel like I'm supposed to hate all Muslims and if I don't, I'm a "traitor".  I've been called that to my face because I wouldn't join in harassing and degrading a woman dressed in a hijab (sp?) who was shopping.

This is why I try to hate ALL religious people, whenever possible.

[Anne Bonney]

Moderates are useless. All they do is seek to confuse the issues while providing cover for those we call extremists.

[/size]

 :notworthy:

See, now this is what makes me feel like I'm supposed to hate all Muslims and if I don't, I'm a "traitor".  I've been called that to my face because I wouldn't join in harassing and degrading a woman dressed in a hijab (sp?) who was shopping.

This is why I try to hate ALL religious people, whenever possible.

Partially agreed.  I don't want to hate them (although some of them I do), but I just try to live by the "live and let live" credo.  I think that's most of what bothers me about them (all religions).....they're trying to convert or save people, for their own good (sound familiar??).  That just strikes a Straight nerve with me.  I've been "helped" almost to death.  If religion works for you, great.....but that doesn't mean you've got to "save" everyone else.  Leave me the hell alone is what I'm saying I guess.

[Froderik]

Excellent read, thanks.
Islam does present a problem for the USA. When we try to fight them we have liberal theologians crying, why are we subjecting Islam to bias. This is what it must of felt like millenniums ago. When the Christian Crusades (Popes) were ruling the lands, no one could fight them politically or militarily.
Moderates are also dangerous, they muddy the waters.

Perhaps a lot of it is media driven. CNN and other major media also operate inside Islamic nations and they have to figure that into their reporting back home. Even if that means creating a false illusion about Islam to America, it saves reporters 'over there'.

For whatever reason we are being deceived by the media. And to many people what the media opinion is, it is also their lazy opinion.

 :tup:

[Froderik]

This is why I try to hate ALL religious people, whenever possible.

I was raised Catholic, so I hear ya on this...plus I liked (and still like) punk from the early 80's (if this doesn't tell you something, you should do your homework), but this is a sophomoric attitude when you think about it. Rage-driven, for the most part. Hell, I like Jesus jokes as much as the next free-thinking young American, but I've gotten over having senseless rage toward people who have not earned it. Don't get me wrong, some religious nuts can really get under my skin (the evangelistic types, especially), but to say I hate all religious people would not be true, not anymore.