How you couldn't really "fake it"

[Withdraw]

You know, I was thinking about this since I read the posts yesterday and I see even now in my life I am having to do this. As most of you know, I am very alternative thinking, and atm am in college in the Nursing program. I do have to be someone I am not use to being in an attempt to be successful in school. I am not sure if I am "faking" it or if I am in fact just finally growing up ;p But I am certainly not the person I was just a few years ago. Maybe I am just conforming to the normative rules of college until I get finished.. and then the "True" me can flourish again. I am not sure. In a lot of ways I sorta hope both is true, I hope I get to be both free spirited and disciplined at the same time. (If that makes any sense)

Geesh, I hope I still believe in Pixie dust and wishing on shooting stars when I am done school. It worries me a little....

And Pirate is right, I experienced some weird behaviors post straight. I never will forget.. After I got out, a few of my favorite straight friends who had been terminated or graduated had called me and I thought they were some pre-straight friends calling and I freaked out and said... "I can't talk to my DRUGGIE friends anymore...sorry" Of course these people then told me who they were.. and I was so shocked at myself that I had used those words "DRUGGIE FRIENDS" .. I mean wtf, I didn't even have actual druggie friends before straight, ROFL. But that straight think had even gotten in my head.. the head that always faced the floor and didn't motivate to speak.

And Hi all my favorite Fornits! <3 You all will never know how you helped me change my life and what you mean to me. Words just aren't enough.

Peace2you!

[shaggys]

I remember resisiting/misbehaving off and on for a month or so after being put in the program. Then one friday night in an open meeting review rap I got stood up and blasted for my lack of cooperation. I blurted out that i thought my father would come get me out of the program eventually. I was told in no uncertain terms that no one was coming for me and that I would never leave the program. I was blasted with that statement over and over and over until 30 minutes of yelling cursing and threatening had reduced my 15 year old mind to mush. I sat down and immediately knew that I had to cooperate to ever have a chance of leaving hell. I began to motivate that evening and thus began a year and a half descent into full scale brainwashing. I thought at first that it would just last until I got a good chance to run but gradually I began to believe it all. Finally, towards the end I would have done virtually anything the staff told me to do. All the terrible things that were done and said to me I then turned around and did to others. After all, you had to hurt people in order to help them, right? Yes, it was a descent into hell that started for real when I thought I could just make it easier on myself and "fake it" until I could run.

[Anonymous]

You know the funny part? I am living proof that those fkrs lied. They always said the sooner you conform, the sooner and easier it will be to get out. I cared "how" I got out, and I would never have hurt anyone to make it easier on myself. Don't misunderstand me, I don't judge anyone for it now.. But it is the part I can never understand, why? Why did so many people believe them? I mean, I didn't conform and I was outta there in 6.5 months. Yea, it was brutal.. but it worked faster than conforming.

[Anonymous]

I have talked to a lot of people who have claimed that they faked their way through and didn't get brainwashed.....and then a few minutes of retrospection and these people who didn't get broken down start to cry as they realize that they had, in fact, slid down this slippery slope mentioned by the OP. They often will admit that they were damaged by this but didn't realize it after thinking about post-program incidences where program thinking hobbled parts of their lives.

And when you get out, there are certain things that actually can be useful in recovering from the trauma of the program. Unfortunately, these tools that could be of aid to us were made into tools of torment and torure so we naturally have an aversion to them. Psychotherapy, self-analysis, the steps, serenity prayer, god, church, discipline, responsibility etc. are all things that are useful to people who need some psychological guidance when problems arise. But we associated these tools with evils of the program and avoided them like the plague. Because these tools (and songs) had been made into implements of torture, we wanted nothing to do with them and self betterment subsequently fell by the wayside. Just another reason we couldn't seem to right ourselves when down on our luck. Try to be a carpenter in a world of carpenters after you have been tortured with a hammer; try driving nails with your shoe and see how well you do in life. That is life, post-program.

I don't think anyone gets out unscathed, whether they think so or not.

The last sentence here says it all.

[Sam Kinison]

Simply put,the good things(Serenity Prayer,Signs,even RBT)were not the cause of evil at Straight.One has to learn not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.RBT was a good idea.George Ross is an idiot.Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.I seriously doubt that the authors of RBT would have let George Ross through their doors if they knew how George was going to twist their teachings for his own personal gain.Once again,don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Withdraw]

I couldn't quite finish earlier. ( omg, Surv!vor and Gr3y's Anatomy were coming on...) Anyhow, it just amazes me how people (all people, at some point in their lives..) tend to go along with the crowd. In Psych and Soc class we had to research the Asch and Zimbardo experiments. And it amazed me and reminded me so much of the dynamic Straight used to convince people to just go along with the crowd.

If you are ever bored and don't know about these experiments.. go read about them. They are really interesting and prove how mind control was being tested just prior to and during the years of Straight. These experiments had already proved that the dynamic that Straight used would work as well as it did. It will make you wonder a lot about what is really going through the minds of the other humans around you.. We are all hiding behind our smiles and knowing that makes me feel so icky inside.

Sigh, and you guys wonder why I wanna go and live in the middle of nowhere, LOL... It's because I know too much ^.~ and humans scare me!

PS: Sam, there was never any Baby. Just bath water... to bathe your brain. The baby.. it WAS the lie.

edited for 2 spelling errors, not content.

[psy]

You know the funny part? I am living proof that those fkrs lied. They always said the sooner you conform, the sooner and easier it will be to get out. I cared "how" I got out, and I would never have hurt anyone to make it easier on myself. Don't misunderstand me, I don't judge anyone for it now.. But it is the part I can never understand, why? Why did so many people believe them? I mean, I didn't conform and I was outta there in 6.5 months. Yea, it was brutal.. but it worked faster than conforming.

Problem is with some programs that can get you sent to a "worse" facility (and progressively worse from there).  The "way out" you describe, while ideal, is not always as easy.

[Sam Kinison]

Once Again,Straight BAD.......Serenity Prayer GOOD
                  Hitler BAD...........Autobahn GOOD
        Fidel Castro BAD...........100% Literate Cuba GOOD
Just because Straight Inc was full of crap does not mean going out behaving like a derelict is good.I tried it and trust me it does not work!Straight Inc. was 16 1/2 of the most screwed up months any one could pass but to say that every principle shown is full of crap is equally ludicrous.Maybe this backlash is the main cause of the program's toxicity and ridiculous mortality rate.As hard as this might sound,survival might dictate utilizing the positive while taking the lies and putting them in a mental Hefty bag along with Newton,Ross,Petermann and the rest of the Hee Haw Gang.Remember,they can't harm you any more unless you let them.

[Anonymous]

Once Again,Straight BAD.......Serenity Prayer GOOD

Just because there might have been a baby in the bath-water does not mean that is it.  Everything must be evaluated seperately and objectively.  If you had said "Straight BAD.......Sobriety / moderation GOOD" I might agree with you.  Whether the serenity prayer or AA is good is something that needs to be established by science.

[Anonymous]

the problem with straight is that the stuff like "serenity prayer, honesty, etc", never really meant what it what it was intened to mean.  For example, honesty was never really "honesty"; serenity prayer was used for me to "accept that I was in straight". . . shit like that.  I tend to agree with old Sam.

[Froderik]

If you are ever bored and don't know about these experiments.. go read about them. They are really interesting and prove how mind control was being tested just prior to and during the years of Straight. These experiments had already proved that the dynamic that Straight used would work as well as it did. It will make you wonder a lot about what is really going through the minds of the other humans around you.. We are all hiding behind our smiles and knowing that makes me feel so icky inside.

Sigh, and you guys wonder why I wanna go and live in the middle of nowhere, LOL... It's because I know too much ^.~ and humans scare me!

Our society, what a drag...

Yes. MKULTRA, and other "interesting" experiments...

Those revoltingly creepy "behavioral studies" where people under duress start behaving in certain ways..

Operation Mind Control...gotta love it.  ::puke::  :suicide:

Last night going up in a glass elevator in DC, I got the "plastic smile" from someone, and believe me all they got back was the blank stare. Sometimes common civility is a struggle, I hear you. I really fucking hate being around people sometimes, and i think that has everything to do with my particular experience (which bears a certain commonality in the context of people who were in programs, or the broken families of those people, or just kids who may have happened to experience other forms of abuse growing up, in school, or wherever) of what comprises society as I know it; basically a bunch of ignorant fuckheads...  :rofl:

[shaggys]

I just had to respond to the comment made previously by the person who said they resisted for 6 months and then got out. The naivety of those remarks absolutely stunned me to read on a site like this. I don't know what program you were in but in Atlanta Straight during the early 80's we did not get out by not conforming, no matter how long you resisted. I sat in group by people that had been on 1st phase for 3 years. Imagine 3 years on 1st phase when you are a teenager and just a month or two feels like forever at that age. For someone to say that they would never hurt another person in order to make it easier on themselves sounds like self-righteous crap to someone like me. I watched "good" people turn into cruel heartless straight-robots, one after another. At that age and in that setting what else could we do? Maybe if my 18th birthday had been looming close or if I had any hope that a parent would withdraw me, then maybe I would have never caved in but those weren't options for me. They were not options for the vast majority of us. For most of us we began cooperating because we were hungry, exhausted, scared and utterly without hope for any better treatment. So we started "faking it", hoping at first to just lessen our suffering a little. From that it is not a big step to being completely brainwashed. I blame the adults who ran that place for everything that happened. We were just children!

[Froderik]

I just had to respond to the comment made previously by the person who said they resisted for 6 months and then got out. The naivety of those remarks absolutely stunned me to read on a site like this. I don't know what program you were in but in Atlanta Straight during the early 80's we did not get out by not conforming, no matter how long you resisted. I sat in group by people that had been on 1st phase for 3 years. Imagine 3 years on 1st phase when you are a teenager and just a month or two feels like forever at that age. For someone to say that they would never hurt another person in order to make it easier on themselves sounds like self-righteous crap to someone like me. I watched "good" people turn into cruel heartless straight-robots, one after another. At that age and in that setting what else could we do? Maybe if my 18th birthday had been looming close or if I had any hope that a parent would withdraw me, then maybe I would have never caved in but those weren't options for me. They were not options for the vast majority of us. For most of us we began cooperating because we were hungry, exhausted, scared and utterly without hope for any better treatment. So we started "faking it", hoping at first to just lessen our suffering a little. From that it is not a big step to being completely brainwashed. I blame the adults who ran that place for everything that happened. We were just children!

Yeah, I would have to agree, it wasn't always that easy...and I saw the same kind of things happen to people in there. I was in VA str8 from 11/82 - 1/85.

[Withdraw]

Shaggys, you missed my point. My point is... how fucked up a place is to make teenagers turn into people like that just to get out...Yes, it is something I couldn't do and for me it made me feel like there was something wrong with me. I mean, 98% or more of the kids around me were doing it and it made me think I was crazy or broken...But then again.. I was the only kid in my class who refused to say the pledge and was kicked out of high school  for it... None of those kids understood why I didn't just go along. The point is I couldn't! I told them I would say "Many nations under many Gods" But wtf, that wasn't good enough for those fkrs at school. But for me, I needed to acknowledge all people in that pledge, because my pledge was to HUMANITY as a whole.

I thought until just a few years ago, I was the one who was broken. But then I realized there wasn't anything wrong with any of us, it was only how each individual responded. I vowed to die in Straight Va. 86... before I would eat the children around me. I don't know why, that is just how I responded, no better or worse.. just differently. Do not shame me because I have no understanding as to why people around me conformed. I will never be able to understand, just as you will never be able to understand why I didn't just "fake it". I mean you all are saying "faking it" was what one HAD to do. Which is not true. I would have sat on my hands there in that blue chair for the rest of my life, because as far as I was concerned.. my life had already ended the day they left me in that place. I had come to terms with that and had completely given up on day 1. And I was ok with that. They stood me up everyday and  many people spit in my face everyday. I was thrown to that floor everyday I was in there with some filthy hand over my mouth and 4 other girls sitting on my arms/legs... I just lost hope. I have no understanding of how any of you all had any hope of getting out at all. I had no understanding of what it was you all had to run to when you copped out.. I had nothing and I was empty, completely. I just sat there, on my hands staring at the floor.. and then Id be stood up and spat on or thrown to the floor. I had no hope inside me at all. No fight left. My only defense was to refuse to participate and hope to die.

My point is, like all those behavior experiments... People like power over others. And people with power will devour the souls of those under them. And then programs started using that fact to turn kids against other kids... "to save them from drugs". Meanwhile, it killed a part of each of us. Any small part you may think was good about straight, was a twisted version of reality and used against all of us. Each small part, was a part which made the whole machine run and work to break us all down. All of it was sick and psychotic. Disgusting. Maybe my hate for Straight and all places like it burns deeper than most peoples, but one thing is for sure.. that fire burns hot within me and I refuse, still to this day, to watch anyone be treated poorly. Even in my work, that is what will make me a great nurse. Because I will not stand by and let people abuse people (or animals) in the name of anything.

[shaggys]

Sorry Withdraw, you are obviously an extremely kind hearted person and I see your point. Maybe if we had all had that same moral certitude as you then Straight would not have been able to function. I realize that is wishful thinking though because although most of us like to think of ourselves as nice people, we don't really know until we are tested. Maybe Straight was a test of my moral compass and I failed. I guess I reacted to your post negatively because of all the shit that happened there I am most pissed about what i was forced to do to others in order to help myself. I am truly ashamed but also aware that I would never do those things under any normal circumstances. So much more could be said on this topic, however I have to sign off right now. Thanks to everyone here at Fornits for the chance to interact with people who understand what happened.  Shaggy.