I see here that Psy has been posing you questions, that may be in part his diplomacy or possibly just to identify your intentions, for which I must give him respect. But heres the thing, based on your answers it is clear that you are extremely misguided on your view of the programs. Psy may have interjected his experience from time to time but I feel it more necessary to point out from my experience as well as many others who were subjected to the WWASP system that MOST of what you believe about these programs is simply wrong. I dont mean that as an insult to your character nor your intelligence, because as we all know many parents turned ed-cons are successfully misguided by the programs. Heres my issue here, as a parent or an outside supporter (like an ed con) you have no REAL way to see for yourself if the programs A: Provide healthy and appropriate treatment for the numerous adolescent "problems" they claim to treat, B: Provide sufficient medical services, an Educational system that at least meets US standards, and an environment that is safe and meets US health and safety codes, C: Methods used in the program that provide for success after the program ie: If the program works and finally, D: Ethical child protective practices. In MOST cases, these fundamental requirements are NOT met, and any significant changes that comes out of a stay in a WWASP program is usually because the kid is there so long that they naturally mature. I'm telling you this out of first hand experience not only with the program but as well with keeping in contact with hundreds of people who went to the programs and how they, anywhere from 2 to 10 years later feel about their experience in the program. These are not all anti-program people either, most have never shown the slightest bit of interest in joining the fight against the programs however they have told me many many stories of how the program wronged them and their families and how they all believe it was a waste of time and money. Not to mention you are widely misinformed about the after effects of a program... I will get into that as I comment below.
For the most part all I say is, do some research yourself... do some surveying ... ask neutral people who went to programs more than 2 years ago how they feel about the program, and if they were satisfied. Talk to survivors about their experiences and talk to their parents about their satisfaction with how the program worked after their child came home. Its true that not all programs were like casa by the sea, High Impact and Tranquility Bay, but the fact that you are appalled by what you have heard about these programs yet you still refer to WWASP is very suspect to your judgment and only suggests that you are forfeiting your concious for the money that you receive from WWASP to fill up their programs. Not to mention that the ONLY difference between the US programs and the Foreign programs is that in the US they arent allowed to beat the children. That is the ONLY difference when the usual psychological abuse, force, fear, unqualified staff and a piss poor Med, Ed and program system are still employed at these programs. What most parents and Ed cons assume is that if they are charging so much money they MUST be a good school, but the problem is that these schools are completely un-regulated so no, they dont HAVE to do anything. Only thing they have to do is make it seem like they are doing something right by treating your kid so badly they act significantly grateful when they come home. As well, In the program they are threatened with punishment, isolation, loss of privledges and the time it takes to get home if they admit in their monitored phone calls or letters home anything bad about the program, it isnt until after they are 18 (and depending on if their parent is willing to listen and believe them) that they will tell you about how the program was not a healthy place to live. But in the time it takes them to deprogram, and realize what happened was actually psychological abuse the kid will probably have already returned back to drugs (or other unhealthy ways) and broken ties with their parents, or sometimes committed suicide. The cause of which is rarely realized by program parents to be because they did not receive proper treatment in the program at all, even though what happened to a kid in a program is usually main reason it happens in the first place! Most kids I knew in CBS had barely experimented with alcohol and 5-8 years after the program they have done every drug in the book. WHY? because the program didnt teach them ABOUT drugs, their effects and how they can ruin their life, the program simply made each girl believe they were an addict and if they didnt accept the program they were going to die. This is most likely the reason that most teens after graduating and given the time it takes to deprogram, realize they would rather live their life even into an early grave than to live their life in the fear and guilt that the program held over their head.
I think the fact that a program gives a teen time to separate themselves from the outside world and the people who were leading them into drugs and other temptations is a good thing, I think it gives the child time to make up their own mind about what they want for their life and I strongly believe that if a program were to operate a COMPLETELY different system it COULD be effective. Unfortunately, WWASP and many many other programs do not utilize a program that is either healthy, helpful nor ethically sound and the fact that you support these kinds of places only reflects badly upon you your judgment and your character.
Does that include forced treatment?
Forced treatment isn’t necessarily bad in every case. The child may be reluctant to go at first but may start to see that things are better after a week or month.
Forced "treatment" is different then paying to have your child incarcerated in a private prison. If a child is reluctant to treatment such as therapy, or extremely necessary drug treatment or family counseling I can understand a strong parenting hand in the matter. But when you are essentially taking their lives and future into your hands and making such a grossly misguided and completely unethical choice for them, I think they have the right to at least be able to tell you "No, this place is not for me". Things really don't get "better" in the program, no kid suddenly realizes that they deserved to be locked up and abused, that is simply the brainwashing, and the fear of being punished or singled out starting to kick in. You can believe the facade if you choose, but considering how unlikely that actuality is, I would be suspecious at that point.
Even if statistically it's likely to do more harm than good?
If it were more likely that the child would fail than I would never approve the placement.
So Kathy, How many paying parents have you had to tell... "Your son is simply being a normal rebellious teenager, smoking weed is not going to kill him, perhaps your abrasive parenting and gross overreaction is the case is what is causing your child to pull away from you"
I garrentee NONE. They are paying you to find a private prison and no matter what they say their child is doing or what problems they have you will find one that is willing to pay you a finders fee. The fact is that the programs as a whole do more harm than good to MOST children, that means normal rebellious kids, kids with mental disorders, kids with real addictions and kids with problems that the program only claims to address however DOES NOT. The only kids that do seem to be "helped" are those who were before experimenting with more drugs than a usual teenager and getting into more trouble, yet do not have a real addiction problem nor any mental disorders. There were only a few girls like this in my school, the rest (including me) were incorrectly placed by clueless Ed-con artists.
Does forcing another person to accept they have a problem work in the long run?
No, I have never seen this to be successful. You cannot confront a young person and bully them into thinking they have a problem. The best way is to expose them to choices and show them a different path. Let them experience it by removing access to destructive habits.
What your saying here is that you disagree with the ONLY form of "treatment" that exists in the program. In the program you were either diagnosed a drug addict or you hadn't tried drugs yet but your parents caught you before you became an addict. There was no drug education, there were no "choices to a different path" and the last thing they did was teach us WHY we should choose not to do drugs in the future. The reason I don't do drugs is because I learned, after doing drugs that it wasted my time and ability to succeed in life. All the program said was "stay away from non-working people" as if isolating myself would make the decision for me, No, people need to decide for themselves what they want for their life, that is the only way that any real changes come to light.
Can it be misused? In my experiences, many programs only let a child progress if they confess to problems (often ones they don't' actually have.. these confessions are then used to justify more time in treatment to the parents).
I have found this is more a problem with lack of training in staff.
Darling, in my school the only thing the staff was there for was to beat down the kids if they didnt follow directions. The program, the system that we learned was passed down through the previous generations of upper level girls which made this especially unhealthy, because it was a popularity game mixed with encouraged bullying and peer pressure. We called it "the game" once you learned how to play the game you got levels and finally got out, it wasnt about change, it wasnt about making different choices, it was about learning the jargon and saying what others wanted to hear so that you would be accepted into the group that would ALLOW you to go home.
Another problem with that is that kids without problems can end up actually believing they do (consider the experiments of Solomon Asch in this regard... and multiply that by 24/7 and a lot more than just social pressure).
This should be resolved prior to acceptance. I do realize that there are kids that try to out do each other and fabricate stories just because they feel really stupid for being placed there for just smoking pot so they may say something that isn’t true just to fit in better.
Thats a nice theory, lol and funny too because you admit that there are kids that are recommended to be incarcerated by Ed-con-artists simply because they smoke weed. But kids didnt make up stories because they felt stupid for being put in a program for nothing, kids made up stories because when they said things like "I smoked weed a few times" they would be attacked by the upperlevels and forced to confess more. This is ONLY because they needed to be able to tell the parents that their son or daughter deserved to be incarcerated and that if they didnt complete the program they would die. leading of course to that famous saying "the program saved my son/daughters life", which has been proven statistically (and by simple common sense) to be a completely UNTRUE statement.
Abusive programs rely on the practice of restricting communication. Considering history and what has happened in the past, is there really anything at all that can justify interfering with complete unrestricted contact with parents?
I definitely feel that restricted communication is justified in the majority of the kids who are placed. There are so many people who are ready to undermine the childs therapy, the uncle who has too many secrets and calls to remind the kid to remain silent about their relationship or else. The drug dealer or best friend who wants to call every day to give an update on what is happening, who is getting high with what and who is sleeping with his or her ex. The ex divorced parent who calls every day to express that the child doesn’t have to be there because their father/mother is an idiot, reminding the child that the other parent doesn’t really love them... how could a young person concentrate with all this going on, underminding their work?
False. Completely False. I can understand restricting letters or phone calls from friends but what Psy is referring to is that the contact with the parents is restricted and monitored and it shouldn't be. There is no reason for that besides the fact that they are making sure that the kid isnt telling the parents things they dont know about the program or telling them that they want to leave. On the same subject children NEED to be able to access child protective services and they are not allowed to do this. This is the biggest RED FLAG in a program, even the inmates in a maximum security prison are allowed their right to private counsel and these children should most definately be given the same rights. The fact that they dont allow this ONLY means that they have something to hide and that they are controlling and mistreating these kids and making them feel hopeless about it because there is no way that they can cry for help without receiving MORE abuse.
But who does that assessment process? Is it a medical professional? One qualified to make diagnoses? A second opinion?
The assessment should be done by an independent. Most metropolitan areas have a hospital that can perform a 24 hour observation and assessment on a child.
So, do you recommend any independent admissions agencies? any private doctors that could do that assessment? or do they not pay your kick back fees? DO you even recommend that parents seek them out on their own? I know for a fact that Ed-cons DO NOT because had I been seen by an independent doctor who was aware of the way the program I was supposed to go to operated they would have suggested I DID NOT go. Reason being is because I have ADD and Bipolar, futhermore I did not use drugs before the program, only smoked weed a few times and got drunk twice. The way that the rules at CBS were set up it was impossible for me to advance in the system and any educated person would be able to point that out. Unfortunately the woman who conned my mother was not educated and was most likely only making her recommendation based on the money she would get for my placement.
This is why there needs to be an objective viewpoint determining whether or not a child really has a problem and whether the best course of action is a form of treatment (and objective does not mean paid for by the program/referral service which has a vested interest in slanting the diagnosis one way).
Agreed, that is why I suggest a local hospital to perform a 24 hour observation and assessment alone with the childs therapist to collaborate.
Please make note of this program that is offered in a local hospital, because I am more than positive this doesnt exist. Unless you are talking about a mental hospital, in that case... You've got your head screwed on backwards.
Treatment of any sort is unlikely to help in the latter case and it's likely to hurt in the former, as a child with a fragile ego takes on the identity of an "addict" with a "progressive disease" over which he is "powerless".
Interfering with that natural course is often more dangerous than the substances themselves. Taking away a person's freedom and, indeed free will, is a serious matter, often with lifelong consequences.
If a child is dabbling in drugs then he she is unlikely to be placed in a program. Most parents I have spoken to are at their wits end with children who are extremely destructive.
Again, these kids are few and far between. Mostly the problem is the parents are freaking out and this is the only option they choose because these programs are the only places that will lock a teen up simply based on what their parents diagnose them as and without due process or consent of the child and their other family members, and usually that means their other parent as well. These programs act outside the law and violate every human right that a child has in America, and uses only the loophole of parental rights to be free to abolish the personal rights of the child. It is wrong, no matter how many kids graduate and seem "changed" for a matter of a few months, the process that the program uses is unethical and statistically is unsuccessful so I whole-heartedly believe that the ends NEVER justify the means when it comes to WWASP and many many other programs.
Im sorry to sound harsh here Kathy but It angers me how many people just dont get it, and refuse to see things from a different angle, try the angle of someone who experienced it first hand. You people blow us off all the time, you assume we are lying or exaggerating and put us down for our courage to speak out and save lives. I have very little respect or sympathy with those who choose to support WWASP, and my patience is thin because I have heard every programized cookie cutter argument a thousand times and they never really get any less ignorant. I wont go so far as to say YOU are them, but I will say there is so much that you don't know, or refuse to believe and your choice to support these programs enough to refer kids makes me question your ability to neutrally assess a situation and do whats truly "helpful" for a family. Personally, my opinion is that your paycheck means more to you than truly helping people.
