Hanzomon4

[xres8182]

Hello,my name is Jim. I stopped posting here awhile back for obvious reasons. I just wanted to let you know that when I was in Elan nobody was notified when a ring event happened. I witnessed my friend Phil Williams' death as a result of a brain aneurysm immediately following one of these "rings'. It was very disturbing. He didn't even have parents to call. Actually that is only partly true,but I don't think the state prison takes calls from Elan. I don't know when they started calling parents to approve rings. It seems crazy that parents would approve such actions against their own children.

[Ursus]

Hello,my name is Jim. I stopped posting here awhile back for obvious reasons. I just wanted to let you know that when I was in Elan nobody was notified when a ring event happened. I witnessed my friend Phil Williams' death as a result of a brain aneurysm immediately following one of these "rings'. It was very disturbing. He didn't even have parents to call. Actually that is only partly true,but I don't think the state prison takes calls from Elan. I don't know when they started calling parents to approve rings. It seems crazy that parents would approve such actions against their own children.

Hi Jim, I think that was probably my question re. parental notification when a Ring is to be held... I am very sorry about your friend Phil; I was appalled to learn of his death.  I can't believe Elan did not have the shit sued out of it in the aftermath of that.  Yes, a brain aneurysm or burst can happen after "boxing trauma."

[xres8182]

Phil's father was in prison for shooting his mother. His mother was in a nursing home in a coma. I used to chapparone him on visits to her bedside. Elan should have been sued for that incident but Phil had nobody in his corner with the means.

[Ursus]

Tragic.  Tragic tragic tragic.

Whatever happened to the mother and father?  Any redemption in this story?

[Whooter]

I think this thread only touches upon part of the story (unless this was continued from another thread, I apologize)).  I don’t see why the school should be sued.  Is there a state law that says parents need to be notified prior to these engagements?  Or was the school negligent in getting the child the medical help he needed when it became apparent there was a problem?

I, myself, don’t believe in settling differences in this fashion and would have pulled my child out in a heartbeat if this is how conflict was resolved.  I personally find this a very unhealthy way towards conflict resolution.  But I also see there is a double standard here.  Many posters here don’t seem to have a problem reverting to physical violence as a way to settle disagreements here on the forum.  Why do some chid programs when they embrace this same mentality?

If kids were to fight I could see it better supervised then behind a barn somewhere.  But the adults/staff, in charge, should encourage a different approach and move away from violence.



...

[Ursus]

I think this thread only touches upon part of the story (unless this was continued from another thread, I apologize)).  I don’t see why the school should be sued.  Is there a state law that says parents need to be notified prior to these engagements?  Or was the school negligent in getting the child the medical help he needed when it became apparent there was a problem?

I, myself, don’t believe in settling differences in this fashion and would have pulled my child out in a heartbeat if this is how conflict was resolved.  I personally find this a very unhealthy way towards conflict resolution.  But I also see there is a double standard here.  Many posters here don’t seem to have a problem reverting to physical violence as a way to settle disagreements here on the forum.  Why do some chid programs when they embrace this same mentality?

If kids were to fight I could see it better supervised then behind a barn somewhere.  But the adults/staff, in charge, should encourage a different approach and move away from violence.

From what I understand about The Ring, Whooter, it's not about two kids squaring off about their differences. It's about Elan deeming it "necessary" for one kid to have the living shit kicked outta him. Said kid's opponents are assigned, each in the ring only a minute or so, before another takes their place. Elan's "Ring" is, quite literally, a veritable gauntlet in the round, so to speak.

[Whooter]

If this were true I would pull my child and if my child was involved I would then scour the contract for a “Ring type Clause” (to see if I missed something on my end) and if it were not there I would sue the school for abuse.

The kids who are bullies and appear to be in need of a good ass whipping themselves are the ones who would benefit most from non violent interventions.  Beating up a bully or setting them up in a ring to get their ass kicked only makes them worse.  Confronting or standing up to a bully in the school yard is a different story.

Reform schools in the 18 and early 1900’s used this method but I didn’t think it still existed.  Using a boxing ring to allow kids to settle their differences safely is one thing (which I personally still don’t approve of), but what you suggest is happening at Elan is abusive.



...

[DannyB II]

If this were true I would pull my child and if my child was involved I would then scour the contract for a “Ring type Clause” (to see if I missed something on my end) and if it were not there I would sue the school for abuse.

The kids who are bullies and appear to be in need of a good ass whipping themselves are the ones who would benefit most from non violent interventions.  Beating up a bully or setting them up in a ring to get their ass kicked only makes them worse.  Confronting or standing up to a bully in the school yard is a different story.

Reform schools in the 18 and early 1900’s used this method but I didn’t think it still existed.  Using a boxing ring to allow kids to settle their differences safely is one thing (which I personally still don’t approve of), but what you suggest is happening at Elan is abusive.

 :shamrock:  :shamrock:
Whooter,
 Dude I respect what you have to say whether I agree with it or not, but on this subject I would ask of you to do alot of study and reading on Elan and the boxing ring.
Abusive would be a kind understatement to say the least. You can not even imagine in your wildest dreams what went on inside those houses.
Danny



...

[Paul St. John]

That was my thinking.  It would be an invalid contract, for sure. I learned that in 8th grade. lol

The place is still in existence. And this is only a part of the tortures that they put people through.

Paul

[Paul St. John]

Hello,my name is Jim. I stopped posting here awhile back for obvious reasons. I just wanted to let you know that when I was in Elan nobody was notified when a ring event happened. I witnessed my friend Phil Williams' death as a result of a brain aneurysm immediately following one of these "rings'. It was very disturbing. He didn't even have parents to call. Actually that is only partly true,but I don't think the state prison takes calls from Elan. I don't know when they started calling parents to approve rings. It seems crazy that parents would approve such actions against their own children.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how these people live with themselves.

Paul

[Paul St. John]

There was a woman who there with a serious back condition. She was a kid at the time.  It was well-known that she had this condition.. it was verified by doctors, etc.


.. and they forced her to do all kinda shit, to intentionally further hurt her back, and she is permanently damaged, because of these assholes.

I'll tell ya, it is hard for me to keep my cool, and be objective, when I think about this shit.

These people are true villains.  Elan is an evil that exists in this world, and that is not being dramatic.

Paul St. John

[Matt C. Hoffman]

Paul ,

You are most correct and truthful in your post . I am a witness to the absolutely criminally abusive torture (for lack of a better word for it ) that this young woman went thru, many many years ago.

I do not want to mention her name , because it is not my place and I have not asked her for her permission to do so.

I know exactly Paul, who you are speaking of ,and what that women went thru is from another planet and if memory serves it was kruglik that seemed to enjoy it the most and was the bastard that was giving the direction of her ABUSE.

God what they did to that young girl  is so bazarre that you wouldn't believe it if I mentioned it .

Sad thing is that ELAN was doing very similar ,criminally abusive torture ,to many other kids and adults during at the same time during my time.  

WICH WAS         JULY OF      1974        TO        JULY OF    1976

Yes Paul I am a witness to her and many others.

[DannyB II]

Paul ,

You are most correct and truthful in your post . I am a witness to the absolutely criminally abusive torture (for lack of a better word for it ) that this young woman went thru, many many years ago.

I do not want to mention her name , because it is not my place and I have not asked her for her permission to do so.

I know exactly Paul, who you are speaking of ,and what that women went thru is from another planet and if memory serves it was kruglik that seemed to enjoy it the most and was the bastard that was giving the direction of her ABUSE.

God what they did to that young girl  is so bazarre that you wouldn't believe it if I mentioned it .

Sad thing is that ELAN was doing very similar ,criminally abusive torture ,to many other kids and adults during at the same time during my time.  

WICH WAS         JULY OF      1974        TO        JULY OF    1976

Yes Paul I am a witness to her and many others.

Are we talking about one of the owners nieces or is it another person. Once again my memory doesn't serve me.

[Paul St. John]

What about schools?

The schools that sent people there?

Could they be swayed/ influenced against Elan, using nothing but legitimate facts?  What if they went after Elan? They would probably fair better then just a handful of past residents, as far as organisation, etc.

I once read ( I don t know if it is true, that Elan has all the decent lawyers in their area, under their thumb).

Maybe the thing to do is to have to bring them outta their cozy little woods, tucked away in Polands Spring, Maine?

Hey people could technically, I think, even bring suit against the schools that sent them there.  With the facts of the horrid things that happened there, yuo would think taht they would want to seperate themselves from Elan, and perhaps, even sure Elan, based on that.

.... or at the least, take a stance of "Elan did us wrong.  We thought they were helping our students."

I think one of the keys is to get them out of there woods.

Paul
PS Of course, Anyone who gets involved with anything  should know that these fuckers will not play fair...

.. and will play the victims.

lol.. in case you don t already know.

Joe Ricci escaped justice through death, but there are many others who belong behind bars.  This requires a huge movement.  The more momentum it gains, the better things will be.. It would require persistence from everyone involved.

[Ursus]

Personally, I think one of the biggest roadblocks in facilitating exposure to abuses occurring or having occurred at Elan ... is that it is located in the State of Maine. The way things work there, Social Services, the police departments, the politicians, the newspapers... they all side with each other against "outsiders" or "out-of-staters." The longer a place has been around, the more cred it has as being part of the home-boy establishment.