Author Topic: without program parents there is no program  (Read 4902 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« on: April 14, 2007, 10:51:02 AM »
so stop sending your kids away already!!!

oh, whats that? you read about all the abuse stories and can't wait to send your kid away? you see how survivors even give parents the benefit of the doubt and they can say they were fooled? in the back of your head you are thinking you can get away with it too. send your kid off for a year or two, what's it matter really? you konw you want to, i know you want to, we all do. nothing we can say will stop you.

you already made up your mind, that's why you are here, isnt it? you just want to know what you got into, and you haven't even scratched the surface. keep scratching until it bleeds and see if you like it then. see if you like it, but you never will because your parents never sent you away or else you wouldnt be here looking at it for you kid.

pick up the phone and make the call, we all know you want to.
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Offline exhausted

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 04:41:04 PM »
Some program parents were also program kids themselves

You're being unfair - some parents send their kids away because they are incredibly frightened and believe what the 'experts' tell them is the best course of action, it's easy to get sucked in, as a parent it's not easy to admit you've made a bad mistake, especially when your kid seems to be coming off the wrong track and finding his/her way onto what society demands is the right track - as a parent who sees their child benefitting from a program, you can hardly blame them for keeping their child in a place that's working for them!! (Or seems to be)

There are 2 sides to every coin.
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Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 05:03:32 PM »
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Some program parents were also program kids themselves

You're being unfair - some parents send their kids away because they are incredibly frightened and believe what the 'experts' tell them is the best course of action, it's easy to get sucked in, as a parent it's not easy to admit you've made a bad mistake, especially when your kid seems to be coming off the wrong track and finding his/her way onto what society demands is the right track - as a parent who sees their child benefitting from a program, you can hardly blame them for keeping their child in a place that's working for them!! (Or seems to be)

There are 2 sides to every coin.

There are two sides to MY ASS too!!  :rofl:

How do you define "working for them"?  :question:

This ought to be good... ::bwahaha::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline exhausted

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 05:08:43 PM »
Well - I probably didn't word that very well, what i meant was, the parent sees a child who apparently is in a place that is 'fixing' their kid, that's what i mean by it working for them, if they seem to be doing really well and are determined to do well in the future etc etc then it will seem as if the parent has done the right thing.......they just don't research enough to realise the kid will do and say anything to comply long enough to get the hell out of there - so the prgram looks like it's done the trick, when in reality it's just broken the kids' spirit and they accept it's their way or the highway which is not good.
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Offline Antigen

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Parents ta' day
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 05:15:39 PM »
I don't say this to excuse shameful behavior, but to attempt to explain it. Come along with me a little in thinking of it this way and help me to better hone my argument to effect some understanding--armor against the scam--among this and, especially, the next generation of parents.

Here's the theory: We are being domesticated.

This is like the Watership Down, which was required reading in many regular old public and private high schools in my day. You never hear about it anymore, but it's a classic political, cultural, psyche drama well worth reading.

In my day, when my older brothers went into the Seed in around 70 or 71, the program was yet another bizarre, disturbing development even against the backdrop of the Kennedy Assasination, Vietnam War and anti-war movement, Watergate, the Summer of Manson, the Summer of love, Beatlemania and Woodstock.  

The whole world was fucking nuts, but even so, my family was way, way, WAY on the outside of fucked up in the eyes of our neighbors, teachers and communities by virtue of our involvement in the program. In those days where I grew up in So. Florida, there was no higher authority than mom and dad. On the down side, there were a good many kids who just had to put up with parents who routinely beat them, locked them out of the house or were abusive or neglectful in various ways. The liberal elite had lots of ideas about how parents ought to raise their kids, but very little real coercive authority to back it up.

Acting on  all the good intentions in the world, they have acquired much influence in all realms of public and private life over the last 30 years or so. Not that that was really an epic, I don't know if there is an identifiable epoch. But the world definitely changed rather suddenly around that time.

In my day, when they called me ADD and wanted to put me on speed, my dad just cussed them out and stomped off. These days, that might just land the kid in state custody. And people are used to that. The daytime talk shows run constant, more than daily courses of instruction on just how to identify a disorder or dysfunction in almost anybody and then tell you just who to call for repairs. People are used to it. The schooling industry has almost nothing to do with education anymore, but will offer aspiring Master Teachers a handy guide on http://www.masterteacher.com/freeresource/

Parents ta' day have been raised in a world where their role is to produce and consume and to force their kids to comply with the new order of things. They no longer seem to poses near as much of that good old parental instinct we all take for granted. If some dumb bimbo who flunked out of her masters program and took a job teaching instead can't get along with your kid says the kid is disordered, the parents just believe it without question and follow the instructions of the presumed professionals, however cruel or bizarre.

They have the same problem in trying to establish free range cattle herds. Domesticated cattle have lost the instinct and habit of looking after their young. Free range cattlemen generally send the overly domesticated ones to slaughter as soon as they pick up on that particular disorder because they don't want them breeding into the herd. While I well understand the impulse to take a similar tack, I think it would be more productive to try and wake people up to what's going on so that they won't fall for it.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline ZenAgent

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Re: Parents ta' day
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 07:39:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Antigen's Ghost""
The schooling industry has almost nothing to do with education anymore, but will offer aspiring Master Teachers a handy guide on how to slap a psyche dx on damned near anyone with precise instruction on how to manipulate, humiliate and control them accordingly.



Man...I was the "apathetic" one...so were most of my Gen X peers.  My 20th high school reunion was canceled due to lack of interest.  Seriously, no one cared.

Back to the topic, desperate parents get taken in by flashy websites and promises of "fixing" the kids in some lovely woodland setting, or a tropical paradise like TB.  Layne Brown's mom was taken in by TB because she wanted the best for her son.  It's really wrenching to watch her talk about what happened to Layne in the TB documentary.

Desperate parents are victims of programs.  Eventually a lot of them realize what's going on and get their kids out, but they suffer from guilt feelings for the abuse their kids went through.  I give them props for realizing the wrong and doing the right thing.  No guilt in admitting you made a mistake. The parents who realize what's going on and allow it to continue - they're the ones who should feel the guilt, but don't.  We've seen ample evidence of the admit-no-fault parent around here...
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Offline hanzomon4

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 08:23:54 PM »
My word?! wHo would that be....  :lol:
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i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
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Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 10:12:11 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
My word?! wHo would that be....  :lol:

slap your mammy down
slap your pappy down again
oh move it up and down now
oh move it all around now
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Offline ZenAgent

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 11:10:34 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
My word?! wHo would that be....  :lol:


hewhoshallnotbenamed. :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\"Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech, unless it be by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing\" - The Qur\'an

_______________________________________________
A PV counselor\'s description of his job:

\"I\'m there to handle kids that are psychotic, suicidal, homicidal, or have commited felonies. Oh yeah, I am also there to take them down when they are rowdy so the nurse can give them the booty juice.\"

Offline Oz girl

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 10:42:10 AM »
it seems a little simple to point the finger of blame directly at ALL parents. There is no doubt that some parents who send kids, particularly younger kids are callous or hysterical.
But i can also see how parents who have an unruly older kid must be terrified  if they live somewhere with Zero tolerance laws. if six year olds can be booked and overall good kids suspended for being the class clown, then the parent of a kid who is realistically running a somewhat wild has a lot to fear. Locking the kid up before the authorities do is not the answer but vilifying parents who are delaing with this is not faIr either. Perhaps if the tide turned on Zero tolerance laws a bit the industry would suffer a real blow because good families would be able to relax a little. Afterall it seems that the industry has grown with the tough on crime movement.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2007, 02:17:12 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
it seems a little simple to point the finger of blame directly at ALL parents. There is no doubt that some parents who send kids, particularly younger kids are callous or hysterical.
But i can also see how parents who have an unruly older kid must be terrified  if they live somewhere with Zero tolerance laws. if six year olds can be booked and overall good kids suspended for being the class clown, then the parent of a kid who is realistically running a somewhat wild has a lot to fear. Locking the kid up before the authorities do is not the answer but vilifying parents who are delaing with this is not faIr either. Perhaps if the tide turned on Zero tolerance laws a bit the industry would suffer a real blow because good families would be able to relax a little. Afterall it seems that the industry has grown with the tough on crime movement.


Well thats not really right, its more like a FEW parents are ok but MOST are crazy....sure our culture gives them liscense to act out their craziness...like Ireland allowed parents to act out their craziness by locking away their "promiscuous" girls in the Magdalane asylums...where they do basically the same thing we do in program, work all day, be humiliated by staff in our off time,  be induced to hurt eachother, cut us off from society until many of us never make it back...but in the end..its the horrible parent in the first place.

Unless your kid is a prostitute or a hard core junkie..there is no excuse for being hysterical enough to lock your kid away. And their are NO kids who were like that in my  program and 99.9 kids in program elsewhere do not match the description ..read the "checklists"" these places provide for parents to see if they need them. They are ridiculous...Does your kid lie? manipulate?  not listen to what you say?...the sort of parent tht responds to that.....
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Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2007, 02:25:28 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Unless your kid is a prostitute or a hard core junkie..there is no excuse for being hysterical enough to lock your kid away. And their are NO kids who were like that in my  program and 99.9 kids in program elsewhere do not match the description ..read the "checklists"" these places provide for parents to see if they need them. They are ridiculous...Does your kid lie? manipulate?  not listen to what you say?...the sort of parent tht responds to that.....

Fuckin' RIGHT ON!  :tup:
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Offline Antigen

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 03:52:49 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Perhaps if the tide turned on Zero tolerance laws a bit the industry would suffer a real blow because good families would be able to relax a little. Afterall it seems that the industry has grown with the tough on crime movement.


Yup, time for another Summer of Love, perhaps? Only this time, it will have to be nearly global.
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Offline Antigen

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 03:54:49 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
read the "checklists"" these places provide for parents to see if they need them. They are ridiculous...Does your kid lie? manipulate? not listen to what you say?...the sort of parent tht responds to that.....


... would probably be better off sending all their money to Miss Cleo's psychic hotline.
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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without program parents there is no program
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 06:00:18 PM »
..." And surely there is in all children...a stubborness, and stoutness of mind arising from natural pride, which must, in the first place, be broken and beaten down; that so the foundation of their education being laid in humility and tractableness, other virtues may, in their time be built therein"

A quote from Howard Zinn's "The People's History of the United States" in which he quotes John Robinson, a quaker pastor in the early 1700's.

I think there is a strong resemblence between "honor killings" and the "remedies" western parents seek for unruly, rebellious or non-conforming children.  After all they embarass and shame the family, causing "dishonor".  Only here we pay someone to do it for us.
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