Author Topic: 12 step based philosophy and abuse  (Read 2301 times)

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Offline Oz girl

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« on: October 06, 2006, 05:34:45 AM »
Some wilderness and therapudic boarding school claim to use a 12 step programme. Some of these same places claim to treat  actual substance abuse, miscreant behaviour and sexual abuse surviours.

How do they reconcile the idea that 12 steps are largely all about taking responsiblity for you own negative behaviours and getting past any abuse is about learning to accept that you did not do anything to provoke the abusers behaviour and therefore can not be held responsible? Does anyone have any experience as a student or staffer of how they handle this?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 06:56:40 AM »
Doesn't it seem that a program could address substance abuse and abuse survivor issues at the same time by working on things that build self-esteem?  Some "miscreant behavior" might also become less important for the perpetrator if they felt better about themselves, too.  And certainly the entire school/program "climate" will be involved.  So ... there is no obvious mismatch so far.  
Other aspects of the "issues" raised may be addressed in issue-specific groups as well as individual therapy sessions.

If you are thinking that 12-step taking responsibility is inconsistent with abuse non-responsibility ideas, note that your question spoke of survivors of abuse, not perpetrators, so one would hardly have to take responsibility for commiting abuse while they would for drinking.  Again, no conflict.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2006, 08:27:26 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Doesn't it seem that a program could address substance abuse and abuse survivor issues at the same time by working on things that build self-esteem?  Some "miscreant behavior" might also become less important for the perpetrator if they felt better about themselves, too.  And certainly the entire school/program "climate" will be involved.  So ... there is no obvious mismatch so far.  
Other aspects of the "issues" raised may be addressed in issue-specific groups as well as individual therapy sessions.

If you are thinking that 12-step taking responsibility is inconsistent with abuse non-responsibility ideas, note that your question spoke of survivors of abuse, not perpetrators, so one would hardly have to take responsibility for commiting abuse while they would for drinking.  Again, no conflict.


Oh sure.  Making you pee your pants, being constantly yelled at, getting a totally non-accredited education and spending time in OP for looking at a girl (which is obviously deviate bahavior) or out a window will definately build self-esteem.  Knowing your parents approve of and arranged for your torture and complete isolation from the outside world does wonders in that regard, too.  Yup, two years of that will work wonders in building emotional health.  Not.

Survivor of SCL
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Offline Dr Phil

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2006, 12:13:35 PM »
Depends what type of program it is. I believe programs embrace the AA philosophy because it's free, and because it's well known and parents tend to trust it because it's so well known. It doesn't work, especially for teenagers, bu they still use it anyways in countless programs all over this country. AA is like scientology, they offer a simple solution to complex problems in order to sell a service that does not exist, that is a god that wants to help you stop drinking.
If you are a parent and you sincerely belive that program staff care about your kid more than you, you are naive. If you believe they care about your kid at all, you've been had.
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Offline Antigen

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2006, 03:40:18 PM »
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Offline Oz girl

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2006, 09:23:44 PM »
It is not that i am opposed to aa per se. if you are an adult alcoholic who decides to give it a go.
My questions is how an idea that is about personal responsibility apply to the victim when plenty of programmes advocate that this is their method for dealing with survivours of abuse. What sepecifically do the 12 step based programmes tell kids in this situation?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2006, 09:28:39 PM »
Could you rephrase that question?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2006, 10:07:35 PM »
The 12-step approach has been adapted to many different things, but I've never heard of it being used to "treat" survivors of abuse. That seems very counter-productive to me.

The statistics on the effectiveness of AA/NA/CA etc. in treating substance abuse are not spectacular. IIRC, it's something like 38% long-term sobriety among adults and much less (I think 12-15%) among adolescents. But then again, the statistics on other treatment approaches are similarly dismal. Due to it's sheer size in numbers of participants over the decades, it can truly be said that the AA approach has helped more addicts recover than any other treatment approach. But just because it helped one person is no indication that it will help another.

Speaking of helping one person:

"I found purpose in the 12-step programs the rehab introduced me to. Today, I have some problems with the way many treatment centers force 12-step ideology on people. I know that there are many whom it doesn't help -- and in this book, we offer a variety of options for recovery. For me, however, at that time, it did the trick. In the 12-step fellowships, I found that I could make friends without having to give them drugs and that I could be loved for who I was without being rich or famous."

-- Maia Szalavitz
"Recovery Options"

You might recognize the name. One of her other books, "Help At Any Cost," is frequently advertised on the main Fornits page.
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Offline Oz girl

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2006, 04:56:20 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
The 12-step approach has been adapted to many different things, but I've never heard of it being used to "treat" survivors of abuse. That seems very counter-productive to me.


oh some programmes claim to use the 12 steps model & also to  treat abuse victims-
-family foundation school
-galena ridge wilderness school
are but 2 which advertise as much. So again my question to either ex staff or students of such programmes is- How exactly are the 12 steps used to help with this issue. Do they tell a kid that abuse they may have been subjected to is their personal responsiblity? Do they skip over this step because it is not relevant and just move on to submitting to a higher power? How do they make it relevant to those who are at a programme to get help with this issue?

My remark was not a comment on the value of 12 step programmes to adults who voluntarily seek such programmes out for their own addiction issues.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Dr Phil

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2006, 02:55:38 PM »
That is weird that they are using the 12 step model to treat abuse victims. I totally understand what you are saying about the steps, and the confusion it could bring to an abuse survivor. After rereading the twelve steps just now, I have to say that to apply them to abuse victims is ridiculous and dangerous. I believe programs are: a. cheap b. unqualified c. don't give a shit.
I have a somewhat negative view of AA/NA/CA. My parent started doing AA metings when I was really young, just after I was born. So I grew up in it. All my parent's friends were from AA, all the outings we went to on sunday afternoon were for AA families, etc. Then when I started using drugs at 15, it was somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I had already been going to AA meetings for years before I took my first sip of alcohol, or first line of yay. I was conditioned to fear drugs, and fear addiction, I was told it was in my blood and since both my parents were addicts I had no chance at all.
Our family was not religious at all, I believe AA took the place of religion in my family.
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Offline Deborah

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12 step based philosophy and abuse
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2006, 03:39:16 PM »
***Do they tell a kid that abuse they may have been subjected to is their personal responsiblity?

They use 12 steps for substance abuse issues because it's the only (or one of very few) ?treatment? modality insurance will cover.  I don?t think the 12 step philosophy is used for other issues. That ?therapy? is based in the est/Lifespring philosophy, new-agey, confrontational approach. ?There are no accidents?, ?You are at cause in your life?, ?There is no right or wrong?. It?s assumed that the child/person did something to instigate the abuse.  How they get insurance to cover this is beyond me, considering it?s not evidence based and more times than not, the ?counselors? lack credentials and licenses.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe03.html
http://www.caic.org.au/psyther/lifespring/pathology.htm
est/Lifespring goes back to Mind Dynamics (A Brit named Alexander Everett) who ran a program early on in Ft Worth, Tx
http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm

There are reports of girls who had been raped/molested being called whores. In addition to being called whore/slut, they were made to were a "scarlet letter" and/or reenact the abuse publicly (which may be somewhat useful if they were encouraged to take a more powerful role) but were placed in the victim role during the reenactment.
Difficult to search this topic, but here are a few testimonials:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... act#190531
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#214485
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#197335
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#190537
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#181491
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ape#213684
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#218549
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... lut#218574


There is an obvious conflict. In one mode of ?treatment? they are conditioned to view themselves as weak and powerless and the other, they?re conditioned to believe they are at cause in their lives, they have created everything that happened to them.
Adults I?ve known who took est/Lifespring (now The Forum) training were confused by the philosophy and frankly, I didn?t see much ?progress? in their lives for the thousands they spent on numerous seminars. They appeared to have the same problems with relationships and living they had prior, but after the seminars, they had learned to articulate well rehearsed excuses for their behaviors. Just as fucked up as ever, but suddenly they were an expert on analyzing and criticizing others ?issues? and applying their catchy new-agey sayings to them. "There are no mistakes", "She needed to learn a lesson", blah,blah,blah.
I don?t think est/Lifespring is appropriate for adults, much less developing teens. Many a teen has commented on how they had difficulty relating to and interacting with people in the ?real world?. They were taught a different language and way of thinking that didn?t apply when they left the program. Most all programs, except for possibly the religious/fundamentalists, use est/Lifespring techniques which goes back at least as far as CEDU- considered the Pioneer of the EG/TBS industry.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#82069
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#59603
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe05.html
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe04.html
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... /oe02.html

Linda Houghton coined the term Emotional Growth Education and created a Training Institute
http://www.strugglingteens.com/Tiege/history.html
Ontological Counseling
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#21389

?So, what's my point? First, if you start tracing the history of influences on many of the schools in the network of Emotional Growth/ Therapeutic schools and programs, you usually wind up back to just a handful of early founders. Also, much of what is most successful and creative in the schools and programs in this network came directly out of the creative thinking and experimenting that occurred in the 1960s.?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... s0404.html

The damnest thing... I've never seen one of them advertise that their methods are based on that philosophy. Why?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2006, 05:04:00 PM »
After reading Deborah's post, it occurred to me that insurance might be a big reason a lot of programs advertise themselves as using a 12-step methodology -- regardless of what they're actually doing.

Whatever success people have had with the 12 steps, it has been in the realm of addiction. It's difficult to imagine how the 12 steps could be useful to victims of abuse unless those victims are addicted to the abuse and can't seem to live without it.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2006, 06:42:11 PM »
Thank you for the extensive links deborah. I was aware that WWASP used personal responsibility philosophy for everything including abuse, but not of which others did.
the next logical question is how familiar with this philosphy would most parents who send their abused kid to a place which emphasises  personal responsibility be?
If the parent is aware why would they want their kid to take responsibility for something that they did not do?

The other issue that the struggling teens article on synanon raised in my mind is the one of a right to privacy. Many who send their kids away for drug abuse or bad behaviour argue that the kid forfeited that right when they misbehaved or took the drugs.
 But if a kid is a victim of abuse and they are dealing with issues of shame then why would they not have the right to refrain from sharing this with a group? After all any kind of group therapy is about sharing your issues.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2006, 07:04:29 PM »
Sad, but in some cases maybe the parents are the ones doing the abusing, and they want their kid to be washed into believing it's his or her fault.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2006, 10:40:02 PM »
Synanon?s early success can be attributed to the fact that it was voluntary.
Then, comes CEDU.
No longer voluntary. Teens are incarcerated against their will. They?re required to share everything about themselves. If they don?t share they are punished for withholding. If the counselor thinks their ?sharing? is dishonest they are punished.
Ironically, the information shared is used for punishment.  
You see, there is no way to avoid punishment.
Bait and punish, is the fundamental MO.

As was stated in the article, ?But, other former residents later accused Synanon of diligently convincing them that personal humiliation was needed in order to take in the well-meaning feedback from one's peers.?
This is the fundamental piece that needs to be done away with. Humiliation doesn?t heal anything. Never has, never will.

If you admit to having ?tried? pot, you are labeled an addict and sentenced to AA meetings for the duration of your stay.
If you?d had sex with your boy/girlfriend, you?re promiscuous.
If you violate the ?sex? agreement, which includes holding hands with the opposite sex, you?re punished and/or can be placed on ?bans? from the opposite sex, technically for your entire stay. Some programs go so far as to forbid any physical contact with either sex, or any show of compassion when someone is sad and crying. (Don?t want to reinforce their ?manipulation?). Who can be mentally healthy with NO physical contact? We are humans.

It?s a cold-hearted fucking approach to scare kids shitless. Some yield, some don?t. But most do well in spite of the program, not because of any miraculous ?therapy? they receive there.
I think it?s impossible for kids to ?work on their issues? in programs because they are consumed with frustration-to-rage about being isolated from their families and the world.  
They do learn well eventually how to play the game so as to appear to be making ?progress?. It?s easy to imagine, particularly in the early days, a kid crying in group about the ?pain? they caused their pathetic parents, when indeed the tears are about the abysmal realities of program life.

As for how many parents understand what they?re signing their kid up for. I would say less than 5%, tops, know the roots of the methods used in the industry. Probably about that many have any inkling about what behavior modification is and how the programs use it. 100% of parents do not know what happens on a day-to-day basis in the program. They only care about ?results?- a kid who will be seen and not heard, who will not confront or scare them. They know not enough to even ask if the means justify the ends. They have no clue what has been done to their kid to cause the results.
If programs are so proud of their roots and the methods employed, why don't they post them on their websites? No, the overwhelming majority of parents do not know what they're signing their kid up for.

In the ?Apologia - Serious debate only, please!? thread the est/Lifespring topic came up. I asked the WWASPS parents to talk about what they knew about est/Lifespring and it's role in the program and seminars.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ring#31955
They avoided the discussion. I don?t know if it was due to ignorance or secrecy. It appears that one of the tricks to getting people to participate in est/Lifespring seminars is that you don?t tell them anything about it, just ?invite? (read pressure/hound) them to go. It?s all very secretive.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700