Author Topic: Straight INC. Movie on youtube.com  (Read 18191 times)

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2006, 02:49:36 PM »
Then how do we explain the WWASPS/Discovery seminars and the Straight/Seed/Synanon model being so similar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon
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[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2006, 05:12:18 PM »
Quote from: ""001010""
Then how do we explain the WWASPS/Discovery seminars and the Straight/Seed/Synanon model being so similar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Erhard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon


I think my point was is that we Cannot *explain* it currently on an evidenciary basis, we can only draw conclusions based on indirect evidence.

Unless you know something I don't know, no direct correlation between the Seed and earlier programs exists except some suppositions about Dupont influencing Art Barker.  Will this is entirely likely, it has not been established by direct evidence.  Further, other AA cults have sprung up with similar results to synanon independent of a direct link like Jim Jone's little cool aide cult, and the commonality of brainwashing and behavior modification techniques thruout all cults  further muddy the water.

However, WWasp and the Seed both CLEARLY had common techniques that CLEARLY orginated in Synanon.  The difference is WWASP can be Directly linked to the Synanon, and all the efforts to link Art Barker to the Synanon have failed to date, except for the indirect assumptions we can make about Art Barker, Robert Dupont, federal funding and the rise of the Seed cult in 1973.  As I explained earlier, I have my theories but they remain just that, theories.

Fascinating stuff to me and others  no doubt and I wish I could make that direct connection we ex-program inductees assume is there.

I wish you could understand the hours and hours people like wes Fager, Ginger, Bradbury, Kathy, myself and others  have poured over documents, gone to local and national libraries  and have not come up with the smoking gun.

If someone else can come up with it, you will earn my eternal gratitude and respect because I have been unable to date to establish the direct link, as have all others that I know of.
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Offline Ganja

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« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2006, 05:29:47 PM »
Quote from: ""GregFL""
If someone else can come up with it, you will earn my eternal gratitude and respect because I have been unable to date to establish the direct link, as have all others that I know of.

One thing is certain & that is that there is possibly a link between them. If I happen to find out I'll be sure to let you know.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2006, 10:27:21 PM »
Thanks for your post, Greg. I appreciate all the time you've spent discussing this subject.

Quote
I wish you could understand the hours and hours people like wes Fager, Ginger, Bradbury, Kathy, myself and others have poured over documents, gone to local and national libraries and have not come up with the smoking gun.


I'm not sure why you think I couldn't comprehend this. All I know is that I experienced both sides of the coin at the same time in my life and do not rule out the matter going deeper than just all stemming from Synanon. I have also spent a few years (and countless hours) reading, researching and being an activist, just like all of us survivors who have tried to take our experiences and make a difference with it.
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[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2006, 11:31:42 AM »
And thank for the conversation as well.  When I said "I wish you could comprehend" I didn't mean to insinuate you couldn't.  It was just sloppy language on my part. Please accept my apology.  

 I do not rule out the possiblity of the link being made either, I just have failed to date to make it as have others.  If, during your research you ever do come across 'the smoking gun', that will be a day of extreme interest for me.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2006, 05:50:17 PM »
I will most certainly keep you in mind.   :wink:

Thanks again, take care.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2006, 02:53:17 AM »
Quote from: ""GregFL""
And thank for the conversation as well.  When I said "I wish you could comprehend" I didn't mean to insinuate you couldn't.  It was just sloppy language on my part. Please accept my apology.  

 I do not rule out the possiblity of the link being made either, I just have failed to date to make it as have others.  If, during your research you ever do come across 'the smoking gun', that will be a day of extreme interest for me.


Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair from the Straight Sarasota program?
We were newcommers together.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2006, 03:54:17 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""

Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair from the Straight Sarasota program?
We were newcommers together.


Call Mr. Lee

Tell him the code is broken.

Tell him the dog is turning red.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2006, 11:45:26 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Im sorry,but are you Greg Leclair


No.

The bird flies at noon.   Call the Meister.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2006, 12:47:44 AM »
:idea:    http://www.john-hanley-sr.com/    :-? check out the interview with this dude... it maybe just a part of a clue, maybe more to it somewhere somehow, still looking for more info. Don't give up.
 
Cheers!

 8)
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2006, 09:37:32 AM »
Yes, Very interesting.

  This Dr. Fletcher character deserves some consideration.  Not much comes up on a google search, but this lifespring fanatic claims he started in 1971 and that the works of Dr. Fletcher with americans returning from the Korean war helped inspire him.


Good stuff.   Still, I don't see how it would tie The seed to the synanon, but it certainly could establish a link between lifespring, the techniques used at lifespring and the government, and also perhaps some link to Korean war and the 'treatment' of returning soldiers.

This would require someone to put in some work on researching Dr. Fletcher and the Dept of education.


Thanks for the link.  You have sparked my interest. I am somewhat ignorant on Lifespring, but from what I read it appears to be an EST style cult.  Is this wrong?
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2006, 09:47:22 AM »
Lifespring essentially is EST. John Hanley took what he learned from Werner Erhard and founded Lifespring.
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[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]

Offline 001010

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« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2006, 09:56:59 AM »
Great history provided by Lon Woodbury and strugglingteens.com. Ha. Kinda scary that I went through both EST and Salesmanship Club... and then Straight, Inc.

"However, the 1960s and 1970s saw a tremendous surge of innovative ideas and new approaches for these teens. Synanon, Daytop, Elan, DeSisto, EST, boy?s ranches, LifeSpring, the Dallas Salesmanship Club, wilderness adventure, back-to-nature communities and many other innovative approaches proliferated, challenging the system of predictability then in vogue. The founders of those facilities that were focused on struggling teens developed philosophies and approaches they thought would better meet these children?s needs because they felt the standard approach to helping teens who were making poor decisions did not help many of them. One of the most influential approaches to the network of emotional growth/therapeutic schools and programs was Mel Wasserman?s CEDU School, founded in 1967."

http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... ation.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]

Offline GregFL

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« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2006, 10:24:47 AM »
CEDU is a direct Synanon spin off.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2006, 10:42:24 AM »
I didn't know that, thanks Greg.

Here's Wikipedia's info on Lifespring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespring
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=79]EST (Landmark/Lifespring/Discovery) \'83
Salesmanship Club \'84-\'86
Straight, Inc. \'86-\'88[/size]