The Real Problem Is ...

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-24 19:08:00, Badpuppy wrote:

"Your arguements reflect your total ignorance, lack of education, and incoherent logic. But you have an excuse--your self guided study at SCL. Are you actually claiming that students prosper more without classroom teaching than with classroom teaching? That students best prosper in algebra, english, and science when the teacher says I'm never teaching anything but I will answer your questions." This logic is among the most specious reasoning I have ever enountered. In fact it doesn't even rise to that level. It is simply BIZARRE. It is only surpassed by your assumption that it takes more money not to teach, than it does to teach. Harvard Yale and Columbia find their recruits in all kinds of public and private schools, including schools with low performance, but they seem to have missed Spring Creek Lodge. But we do know something about their graduates. And that is that on average three out of four will graduate to a psychiatric hospital or penal institution. And as to what you perceive as my lack of erudition in educational philosophy every recognized professional educational association in America, including those representing private schools, affirms the need  for an active pedagocical approach (classroom teaching). So tell me what educational credentials do you possess, besides your worthless SCL diploma? I am waiting to be ASTOUNDED by your vast knowledge of educational philosophy, practice and procedures. I won't even go into the asininity of your comment about your ancedotal experience. The victims of this education fraud are in many posts as well as in court testimony, and speak more eloquently than I can about the mindnumbing, boredom, and misery of their pedagoical experiences at SCL. Hopefully you will never put your children or any child, through the betrayal and treachery of a WWASP facility.

"

Thank you for the belly laugh--

How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.

Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.

You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.

I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.

The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.

[Anonymous]

"They're powerful, creative, and intelligent."

Is that before or after their brainwashing?

[69]

You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.

I recall sitting in a trailer, staring at the wall reading required reading classics over, and over for seven months straight. I mean, I don't know what to make of your statment, it sure wasn't true when I was there. Our intellect was not stimulated, it was put to sleep.

Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips

[Anonymous]

Students are not empowered by being ignored by a teacher who sits and grades all day.  There is a difference between creating meaningful, hands on opportunities vs. tossing students some old books and multiple choice tests.  Make no mistake, if you graduate from Browning Academy, you'll be as stupid as its namesake.

[emaree]

You have "an" MA (less some english classes?) in being a dumbfuck.

You seriously can't be defending the education in WWASP schools. Let's stop with all these generalities that you trolls love so much.

I took Chemistry at Spring Creek. That consisted of reading a chapter, taking a test, reading a chapter, taking a test, etc...for  19 chapters. These chapters were thirty pages long and contained very difficult material. Half the time the test would ask something that wasn't even IN the book, and I would be expected to "figure it out." I read that fucking book all day long, for months, and was forced to do an insane amount of work to understand something that could easily be explained to me by the right person, in a quarter of the time. I learned nothing but to regurgitate information onto a multiple choice test, and retain it for a very short amount of time before moving on to the next material. There were never any mid-terms, and the final was just a replica of the study guide they give you beforehand. You do it, memorize it, and take the test. Two weeks later, it's gone.

However at a public school, in addition to reading a book, I would receive in-class instruction from a QUALIFIED instructor, be exposed to labs and group work, taken field trips, and have the ability to ask the teacher questions and actually get answers. Hell, the chemistry teachers at my old high school would stay an extra hour afterwords just to help students out.

You're so dillusional it almost hurts.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the belly laugh--



How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.



Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.



You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.



I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.



The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.



"

I have to agree that a self-guided curriculum is innovative. How effective it can be is contigent on several factors. For any person to learn in an educational setting no matter whether it is self-guided or a traditional classroom there needs to be an established system of support.

This support includes having on call support from qualified educators to assist the student in understanding the material. Further, learning from a book alone is pointless. Where is the stimulation to the mind of the student if they have no one to stimulate it with experiments, presentations, lectures, and classroom discussions?

Self-guided education is an expression of your academic freedom that is typically only just tasted in your last year or so of High School. The opprotunity to choose what classes you wish to take inside the confines of an established system. Turning a child loose in a trailer with a book is hardly what I would call self-guide education.

Why don't you call it what it really is?

Educational Neglect.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-25 00:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Thank you for the belly laugh--





How much time would it take to refute each of your silly assumptions? Too long, but anyone can look up the word "pedagogical" and toss it about. I have an MA in education, C&I.





Here's a question: what research supports the idea that the teacher has to be the most active one, rather than the student? These are kids who have been victimized by everyone around them because all the do-gooders in their lives thought they needed protection and spoon-feeding. They were trained to be passive; it hardly served them well.





You make the common error of thinking they're helpless idiots. They're powerful, creative, and intelligent. If they feel moved to do so, they could memorize DaVinci's Codex in a matter of months, and apply what they learned there. The best way to honor their intellect is to let them make it happen.





I am a teacher, and have experience in public and private settings. Kids who are spoon fed interpret such an approach as a lack of faith in their abilities, and hardly find it empowering. They generally hold their former teachers in contempt because of it. Your argument reflects a basic lack of respect for their abilities.





The self-guided curriculum is innovative, and as effective as the student chooses to make it.





"

I have to agree that a self-guided curriculum is innovative. How effective it can be is contigent on several factors. For any person to learn in an educational setting no matter whether it is self-guided or a traditional classroom there needs to be an established system of support.



This support includes having on call support from qualified educators to assist the student in understanding the material. Further, learning from a book alone is pointless. Where is the stimulation to the mind of the student if they have no one to stimulate it with experiments, presentations, lectures, and classroom discussions?



Self-guided education is an expression of your academic freedom that is typically only just tasted in your last year or so of High School. The opprotunity to choose what classes you wish to take inside the confines of an established system. Turning a child loose in a trailer with a book is hardly what I would call self-guide education.



Why don't you call it what it really is?



Educational Neglect. "

I agree with most of what you say, but again, not all the WWASPS programs look the same. There's only one trailer at SCL, and it's never been a classroom. The classrooms are log buildings. There are nine of them. There's also a computer lab where students do internet research, and a huge library.

SCL students go on field trips, like Science Days at theme parks, where they do physics experiments. Science students have virtual and wet labs every week--although that's only in the last year or so.

The teaching staff are well qualified. The curriculum is Prentice Hall, a very high quality program. In addition, there is the Glencoe Science series.

There are too many field trips to list here, but they include science and history integrated study trips to the Salish Kootenai reservation, and trips all over Montana for various classes. SCL has been doing these for the last five years. They're fun and effective.

SCL doesn't look like a traditional school because that didn't work for those students. But it certainly isn't neglectful.

[emaree]

The only field trip I ever went on in 14 months was for "physics club" and that included twenty or so students (they had to be upper levels, mind you) that were taking either Chemistry or Physics. We didn't learn anything other than Montana has some boring ass rollercoasters. And what about lower levels? Hardly educational.

There is no internet usage WHATSOEVER. That is comepletely unheard of. You think they trust us enough to allow access to the web? Please. If we wanted information for a paper or anything, we had to use a shitty cd rom encyclepedia, or have our parents send us supplements.

The library is NOT huge, and it is censored. There are maybe 400 non fiction books, 500 fictional. I had a bigger library in my damn elementary school. Not to mention we only got to go once a week, and we could only check out three books at a time. I even asked for permission to check out more than that because I was a very fast reader and loved it, and they still wouldn't allow it. How is that educational?

The "Glencoe science series" sucks balls. Why don't you try learning Chemistry or Physics or Algebra with a crappy old Glencoe book and then fucking shoot your mouth off.

And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that.

You know I hear that they let the prisoners at Guantanamo sleep in feather beds...

[Anonymous]

"And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that."

Just like painting the Hobbit purple, WWASP continues to use minor decor alterations and related insignificant comments to shadow the fact that they abuse and neglect students psychologically, physically, and educationally.

[Anonymous]

http://www.parentsupportservices.com/ma ... -nov05.pdf

Go here & scroll to page 8.  They've got Gilcrease selling parents on not pulling their kids.   :roll:

Okay, so families get brainwashed in the seminars.  Then you give the seminar trainer a full page in the newsletter telling you not to pull your kid early.  And we know that graduation has no qualifications, so he's telling them basically to stay for the 2-3 years without questioning it.  You are getting veeeery sleeeeepy (yo-yo swaying in front of your eyes as trainer attempts to further deplete an assinine amount of college funds)......

[Anonymous]

http://www.parentsupportservices.com/ma ... -nov05.pdf

AND scroll to the final page.  WWASP lists their programs as:

Cross Creek Programs
Carolina Springs Academy
Academy at Ivy Ridge
Majestic Ranch Academy
Tranquility Bay
Darrington Academy
Horizon Academy
Midwest Academy
Spring Creek Lodge

[Anonymous]

AND on page 16 they acknowledge affiliations with the following referral companies/hotlines:

Teen Soulutions 1-800-429-6099
Teen Help Admissions 1-800-637-0701
Cross Creek Admissions 1-800-818-6228
Teens in Crisis 1-877-865-9935
Parent Resource Hotline 1-800-793-5156
Lifelines Family Services 1-877-723-3767
Help My Teen 1-800-247-1696

[Badpuppy]

So you interpret active teaching as spoonfeeding and making kids passive. Get a refund on your tuition. YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO PRODUCE RESULTS. It is up to you to find the teaching modality that engages the student. The fact that you believe that active teaching is only about the passive reception of information is a testament to your incompetence. Its no wonder you ended up at SCL with its paultry salery, and benefits. You are the best advertisement for the need for federal legislation.
 
You are not using self guidance as a didactic approach. You are using this facade to dupe parents and others into believing there is a meningful didactic proccess. The Attorney General of New York State fined a similar WWASP "sef guided" program $250,000, calling it "the largest education fruad in New YOrk State History.
How many volumes are in your library? Apparently you don't allow kids access to the internet. How many times a month do inmates on average go to the public library? What reference skill are being taught? The minimum for self guided study would be to teach the inmates how to do research.

Do you actually think that incarceration, fear, degradation, humiliation, food depravation, forced seminars that use brainwashing techniques, transfer out the country beyond the protection of US laws, a four foot wide coffin empowers inmates? This is an epic but very transparant lie. The power isn't their's it is YOURS. You control every moment of the inmates lives right down to your punishment of masturbation. You transfer "half baked pizzas"
out of the country to the control of master torturer Pepper Spray Kay. When you think of SCL understand that the freezing hell hole "hobbit" will forever epitomize what SCL is and the mentality and morality of its ownership. I'm sure its a bellyful of laughs for you.

To the members of this forum I want to appologize for the depersonalization of the term inmates. I think it is important for users to understand that SCL is a private detention center that strips its inmates of human dignity.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-25 20:01 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-25 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

""And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that."



Just like painting the Hobbit purple, WWASP continues to use minor decor alterations and related insignificant comments to shadow the fact that they abuse and neglect students psychologically, physically, and educationally.  "

What matters is accuracy. If it's not important what the classroom looks like, why did anyone refer to a trailer in the first place? In order to make it all worse than it is, because the real issue is a disagreement about educational philosophy. It's morally and intellectually lazy to call that abuse.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-25 14:25:00, emaree wrote:

"The only field trip I ever went on in 14 months was for "physics club" and that included twenty or so students (they had to be upper levels, mind you) that were taking either Chemistry or Physics. We didn't learn anything other than Montana has some boring ass rollercoasters. And what about lower levels? Hardly educational.



There is no internet usage WHATSOEVER. That is comepletely unheard of. You think they trust us enough to allow access to the web? Please. If we wanted information for a paper or anything, we had to use a shitty cd rom encyclepedia, or have our parents send us supplements.



The library is NOT huge, and it is censored. There are maybe 400 non fiction books, 500 fictional. I had a bigger library in my damn elementary school. Not to mention we only got to go once a week, and we could only check out three books at a time. I even asked for permission to check out more than that because I was a very fast reader and loved it, and they still wouldn't allow it. How is that educational?



The "Glencoe science series" sucks balls. Why don't you try learning Chemistry or Physics or Algebra with a crappy old Glencoe book and then fucking shoot your mouth off.



And what does it matter if the classrooms are trailers or shitty little log buildings you have to squeeze 20+ kids into? You would make an argument for that.



You know I hear that they let the prisoners at Guantanamo sleep in feather beds..."

Just in the interest of accuracy: The science trips are in Idaho. The library has over 5000 books.