The Real Problem Is ...

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-18 08:05:00, Eudora wrote:

"The silliest thing about this conversation is that one side is going on personal experience and the other has only seen the brochure.

I can very well do without God both in my life and in my painting, but I cannot, suffering as I am, do without something which is greater than I am, which is my life, the power to create.
--Vincent Van Gogh, Dutch painter

"

The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.

[Anonymous]

The hobbit is gone.

[Anonymous]

As recently as last week it was still on the OHSSAT images.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-18 09:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The hobbit is gone."

So they don't use an isolation room at SCL anymore, that's news to me? We all know they upgraded the hobbit because of all the negative press. Nothing has changed though, and if you are impressed by that I feel sorry for your kid.

[Anonymous]

The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.

No, a boy under oath testifying in a court of law said this. And it's true, because I've been in there and know how cold it gets. Their PR is pictures of teens playing guitars, or hiking and sitting in group -- you know, things you NEVER get to do at SCL. Lies, it's all based on lies.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-18 10:04:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

The brochure talks about frozen oranges? Pretty shaky PR.

No, a boy under oath testifying in a court of law said this. And it's true, because I've been in there and know how cold it gets. Their PR is pictures of teens playing guitars, or hiking and sitting in group -- you know, things you NEVER get to do at SCL. Lies, it's all based on lies."

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be accurately relating your experience, but I was there two days ago, and there were kids on the basketball court playing guitars over at the end where no one was shooting hoops. It was kind of cold out, but there were a bunch of kids on the ropes course, too.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be accurately relating your experience, but I was there two days ago, and there were kids on the basketball court playing guitars over at the end where no one was shooting hoops. It was kind of cold out, but there were a bunch of kids on the ropes course, too.

So you are a program staff? WWASP, you are a bunch of liars, this is proven fact. So why do you think people will continue to believe your bullshit? WWASP is now known for abusing kids and torturing teens, your credibility no longer exists. You lie to parents and abuse their kids. Why would you work for an organization like that? You can continue lying all you want, it won't change anything. I don't know how you people live with yourselves.

[Anonymous]

WWASP staff troll this forum with their lies. Go to the Spring Crekers myspace group and talk to kids who just got out. You can't believe one thing WWASP says, they are in it for one thing, money. The staff are simple people who are taken advantage of, or are attracted to a job with authority they never earned. I'm sure they attract sadistic people too, I know I met a few while locked up there.

[Badpuppy]

Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids? That is by definition abuse. Do you deny that mail to parents are censored? Do you deny that education
is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching? Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment? That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint. I dare you to have a debate on just on the single issue of young inmates giving conequences to other young inmates. Don't you find that a little disturbing? Or do you deny that?














 
[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-04-18 20:26 ]

[CCM girl 1989]

Every single little thing that saves WWASPS money, they try and have a good reason for. Such as letting upper levels disipline lower level kids.

They are master manipulators. Beware.

[Badpuppy]

Thanks for the warning. The practice of placing underage inmates in a position to give consequences to other underage inmates is indefensable. Apparantly the only thing left for them to do is to deny that it happens. That is why I think wwasp dad is a troll. He would have to be on another planet to not know that in the WWASP system inmates give consequences to other inmates. It is part of their core program. Yet WWASP dad simply denied it. Their is a large consensus among mental health professionals that this practice is detrimental and abusive.

[Anonymous]

Bad puppy, someone rubbed your nose in too much poo, I think.

"Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids?"


Why do you assume the kids at the school are all emotionally disturbed? And do you understand that a "consequence" is just losing points? Do you know about the body of research that fully supports A. increasing privileges and responsibility in increments proportional to quality of performance and B. peer tutoring?

"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"

Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.

"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"

Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something.  Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.


"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"

Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal.

"That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint."

Intervention looks like this: a student who is escalated goes to the intervention room, accompanied by staff. They can choose to stay escalated, but most are happy to try other available means of handling things: have a therapist come over and talk, have a staff they feel confortable with come over and talk, have an upper status student (one or a few) come over and talk. If they just don't want to talk, that's OK too.

By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that. The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out.

Bottom line? It's up to the student, every step of the way. That isn't isolating, it's empowering.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-20 08:32:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Bad puppy, someone rubbed your nose in too much poo, I think.



"Did they also end the practice of emotionally disturbed kids giving consequences to other emotionally disturbed kids?"





Why do you assume the kids at the school are all emotionally disturbed? And do you understand that a "consequence" is just losing points? Do you know about the body of research that fully supports A. increasing privileges and responsibility in increments proportional to quality of performance and B. peer tutoring?



"Do you deny that mail to parents are censored?"



Absolutely. What you're confused about here is the level of parent/family involvement. Letters to and from parents are completely private. The only exception is if the PARENT sends a copy to the therapist or family rep.



"Do you deny that education is self paced which is another way of saying no classroom teaching?"



Again, absolutely. Self-paced is your term, and refers only to the speed with which a student completes something.  Self-guided describes an individual plan for every child, something private schools have been striving to create for about twenty years. The student gets to run the show, and that's as it should be. Your assumption here seems to be that the teacher is not available. This has no relation to reality.





"Do you deny that isolation is used for punishment?"



Isolation is not used. Period. It is "intervention"--by clinical definition a completely different animal.



"That purple room looks mighty small and uncomfortable for a three day or longer stint."



Intervention looks like this: a student who is escalated goes to the intervention room, accompanied by staff. They can choose to stay escalated, but most are happy to try other available means of handling things: have a therapist come over and talk, have a staff they feel confortable with come over and talk, have an upper status student (one or a few) come over and talk. If they just don't want to talk, that's OK too.



By staying relatively calm for half an hour, the student shows a willingness to act in a safe manner, and heads back to wherever he was before that. The exception? Some kids want to stay and relax; that's OK. Some also go there at their own request, for a time-out.



Bottom line? It's up to the student, every step of the way. That isn't isolating, it's empowering.  









"

Bottom line?  Parents use these programs to get rid of their kids.

Ask any kid if they would rather be raised by their parents or a therapeutic community?

And please, save the B.S. about how the kid wouldbedeadorinjail.

Therapeutic boarding schools are prisons for rich kids whose parents simply don't want them around.

Amazing how many white kids are "sick" when it's a convenient way to remove them from their home, school and community and dump them into a high-priced private lock down facility with or without therapy.

[MightyAardvark]

This would be a lot more fun if their lies were more sophisticated.

[Anonymous]

Lets take this one point at time. I didn't say that all of your kids are emotionally disturbed. But the federal government studies show that 75% of the residential treatment population is reincarcerated in a psychiatric hospital or a correctional facility.  And  when  you said that minors give point infractions to other minors you are in fact admiting that minors discipline other minors in a way in a way the results in loss of privileges and the lengthening of incarceration. THERE IS NO PRISON IN AMERICA WHERE INMATES ARE PART OF A PROCCESS THAT DECIDES THE LENGTH OF THE STAY OF ANOTHER INMATE. AS for the clinical studies on the wisdom of increasing privileges and responsibilities That is a red herring. CITE ME ONE JOURNAL ARTICLE  WHICH STATES IT IS A GOOD IDEA FOR MINORS, THREE QUARTERS OF WHOM WILL BE INCARECERATED AT LATER DATE TO HAVE ANY DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY CONCERNING ABOUT THE TREATMENT OF OTHER CHILDREN.
Not only is it detrimental to the mental health of those on the receiving end of those point losses, but it is also harmful to those who have to give the consequences. They will live with the guilt that a decision of theirs lengthened the incarceration of their peers. This also has the effect of justifying and internalizing the ill treatment and abuse the discipling inmate recieved when he entered the program. This form of systematic brutalization is just one reason why Cross Creek is one of the worst child prisons in the United States. There are hundreds of posts including former inmates talking to each other which taken as body of evidence affirm this conclusion. And even if we allow for the fact that a percentage of the accounts are exagerated or false they are very consistant, and cross many years. And many of the posters are understating their brutal experiences because they are not savy about the aceeptable standards of care in a residential treatment center. These accounts are further butressed by sworn court testimony, and court filings against Cross Creek for Fraud, education fraud, false imprisonment, negligent child care, breech of fiduciary responsibilty, , etc. The fact that Cross Creek would ever in any timeframe put minors in that freezing hellhole is testimony to the validity of the complaints and lawsuits. It reveals the lack of consience and fundamental immorality of the operators. We can argue about what you perceive as clinical intervention but I view as punishment, what you describe as education, but I view as education fraud, and 1st amendment issures in later posts. I eagerly await your response.