Author Topic: Dear Art,  (Read 34198 times)

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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Dear Art,
« Reply #120 on: October 06, 2005, 01:43:00 PM »
Sorry I don't believe I know that brother.  Maybe he did say that -  what are you really saying?  You are still hurt over it? I,m sorry that your family unit was so messed up.  I don't know what to say about it.  I guess I got lucky.  My parents both divorced when I was 24 or 25.  My dad went to AA.  My mom inherited money from an Aunt.  They both were happy.  My dad passed away about two years ago.  At the funeral Mass the whole church was completely filled mostly with AA folks that he knew throughout the years.  Many came up to me and told me what a help he had been to them.  I was quite touched by the whole experience.  I had never been to one of his meetings, ironically he had never stepped foot into the seed either.  I get along great with all of my siblings (one was in the Seed) but has not stepped foot in the seed since she was 17.  She is one of my closest friends.  She has no ill feelings against the Seed.  She is very sucessful
and has a glass of wine every now and then. My one brother that I see the least is a baptist minister :scared: (yep) has eight kids and 4 grand children. (How this happened to a fine catholic family I have no idea) Two are married to Ministers.  One is a missionary in China.  My other brother is a teacher and the other is a fireman like my father was.  We all worked everything out I'm happy to say.  In fact my brother sister and myself just bought a boat together.  We plan to go skiing soon.  I'm very grateful to have my family and count them as a blessing every day.  I did have to work at making the family thing work out and so did they.  It was worth it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Dear Art,
« Reply #121 on: October 06, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-06 09:42:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Greg I guess its you who have made such mockery of legimate human beings lives.  Its amazing to me how guilty you and Antigen are of making  the same accusations that you make of others.



Alot of lives were helped at the seed. You speak nothing of this.  Only that they are cult followers or zombies or ass wipes.  I guess its a shame that you never saw the good, there was alot of good to see.  I never said I thought the Seed was perfect, far from it. Its principals made me into a human being that I'm proud of.  I guess thats what counts in the end.

"


Well, you guess wrong.

Sorry

Why don't you acknowledge the people who were harmed by the program?  I have publicly stated that I think some people were helped, contrary to what you say. I have even named specific people I thought were helped.

Why do you feel the need, 30 something years later, to frame everything in black and white?  Why do you mostly attack the messenger and hardly ever have anything of any depth to add to the discussion?

Focus those  hyper-critical seedling skills onto yourself once in a while.

GregFL
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Dear Art,
« Reply #122 on: October 06, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
Greg was that you?

In answer to your question.  I do Greg, believe me I do.  Thanks for asking.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #123 on: October 06, 2005, 01:51:00 PM »
And congratulations that the seed didn't rip your family to shreds. It did mine.  You shouldn't discount those that this happened to, it is a bad trait.
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Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #124 on: October 06, 2005, 01:53:00 PM »
Somone please, another Dear Art Letter.

I haven't laughed in at least an hour!


 :grin:
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Dear Art,
« Reply #125 on: October 06, 2005, 01:58:00 PM »
Sorry but I think your family might have done that to themselves  wern't your parents in the middle of a divorce or just recently divorced when one of them put you on the program.  I sorry that they used you as a pawn.  I'm speculating but I think I'm right.
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Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #126 on: October 06, 2005, 02:01:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-06 10:58:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Sorry but I think your family might have done that to themselves  wern't your parents in the middle of a divorce or just recently divorced when one of them put you on the program.  I sorry that they used you as a pawn.  I'm speculating but I think I'm right."



And here you go again!

You have zero knowledge of my family. Your fishing and speculating just to divert any criticism of the seed back on the speaker.  FYI, BOTH my parents were already remarried before this Con Job infected my family.

I guess this is a side effect of all those years listening to that bullshit being thrown around down in lauderdale, eh?
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Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #127 on: October 06, 2005, 02:04:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-06 09:54:00, Ft. Lauderdale

The seed did change alot for the better as time went on it moved on.  

"


Tell that to the people who devoted 20 years to the con job, celibate and alone, believing these people were their friends and family,  all the while scrubbing the toilets of Art and staff while these people got rich and they got diddly squat out of it.

It didn't get better, it just got weirder and little less hostile.
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Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #128 on: October 06, 2005, 02:08:00 PM »
Dear Art,


Please please please, have Shelly read you this thread.


Thanks!


GregFL

 :grin:
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Offline Antigen

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Dear Art,
« Reply #129 on: October 06, 2005, 02:25:00 PM »
Hm, yes, there was trouble on the homefront, always. But not anywhere near as serious before the program as after. Not that you'll bother reading or sincerely considering what I have to say, but for the benefit of other readers, I'll fill in some of the details behind your open (loaded) question.

Yes, like most trouble parents who get sucked into this scam, my parents were under extreme duress when Art pitched them. They were in the midsts of a divorce around that time. It's pretty much as Thom says; the primary issue (as I've always undersood it) was Dad's temper along w/ Mom's insistance that it was all the fault of the beer. One caveate, though. I only have my mom's side of it. Part of Dad's honor code was to never, ever, under any circumstances talk smack on Mom or even to allow it within his hearing. Even his old friend from way back, like mid `60's or so, didn't have a clue what the trouble was, just that Dad would cuss under his breath and change the subject whenever the topic of my mom came up.

And, true to form, Art sput it to his advantage. I remember very early on getting my hackles up when the alleged adults would talk about how my dad had chosen his drinking buddies over his own sons. This was simply not true, and the lie was transparent even to a 6yo. The truth was that, like any sane adult, he took umbrage at being interrogated, accused and ordered around in his personal affairs by a 16yo druggie and stormed out of the "checkout interview" cussing about Art, the professional alcoholic.

Unknown to my dear brother at the time, Dad continued to come around the house to visit me and my sister on his lunch hour almost every day. And he continued to pay child support, as well as soliciting funds and other donations for the Seed. See, while he wouldn't accept disrespect or belittlement from you turkeys, he completely bought into your fear-mongering over the "counterculture". In fact, I'd say he may have been even more strident about it.

I can't explain the descrepency. But Thom remembers Dad as having been absent for a long time. I remember the shack in the tomato field where I-95 now meets, I think, old Copans. I remember the 3 salvaged refrigerators in it, each stocked w/ a different brand of beer for his friends. And I remember the 6'+ rattle snake that he killed and skinned and hung from the old Slurpee truck he used to drive around town. I could go on and on w/ fond (and some not so fond) memories of my dad's continued involvement in us kids' lives. He pretty much involved himself just about as much as the situation would allow.

Then came my induction. John says he was right there lobbying to have me put into the Seed. Failing that, I know he was right there for the ride to Sarasota, month after month, year after year. Toward the end of that, they actually remarried for the express purpose (austensibly, of course there's always more to it) of pulling together in an effort to straighten out their last remaining druggiekid.

That lasted till about 3 weeks after Mom didn't have me to kick around anymore. W/o me to work on, she turned all of her toughlove attention onto him. That ended w/ a phone call from her outlining his plans for the rest of the day (hearing aid, job interview, punctuated by various forms of "WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING ALL DAY?! I'VE BEEN TRYING TO CALL YOU ALL MORNING!", etc.) and a coffee cup thrown accross the room w/ such force as to become embeded in the drywall.

About 3 days later, I ran into Dad back in Pompano. Eventually, they formalized the second seperation into a divorce and we all lived relatively happily ever after.


Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline GregFL

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Dear Art,
« Reply #130 on: October 06, 2005, 02:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-06 10:16:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Sure it was a copycat program.  That doesn't make it the same. Have you ever seen a sequel of a movie, usually its not quite as good as the original.


Ever seen the "dawn of the dead series"

Same ole shit movie after movie... Except that last one of course...much better than the original!

 :grin:

What the hell do movie sequels have to do with anything?  Straight, Inc. was the seed, minus Art Barker and some other egomaniacs. that is all. The original staff members were Seed graduates, the staff was all seed parents, and the intake lady was the seed's intake lady.

 same exact stuff, same problems, same success stories, same people complaining about broken families, same people claiming it saved them.

Here is an exercise for you...name one significant difference between the Seed model of treatment and the modalities of Straight, Inc.

Thank you in advance. Checks in the mail.
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Offline Ft. Lauderdale

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Dear Art,
« Reply #131 on: October 06, 2005, 03:03:00 PM »
You liked the last one?  The one that was just at the movies in the last month or so?  Sorry- I walked out.  It was land of the Dead.  Even had a good Director Romero.  God, even with Simon Baker & John Leguizano it still sucked as far as I'm concerned.
Your right I didn't know your family- but I think they did use you as a pawn, no matter how much I know about it.

We will never even meet half way on anything.  

I'm wasting my time.  Its not worth it.  I've got better things to do.
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Offline Anonymous

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Dear Art,
« Reply #132 on: October 06, 2005, 03:12:00 PM »
What, a new "dawn of the dead" sequel coming out today?


I here this one will be REALLY good!!!  They finally made the proper improvements and got it right this time!!





 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

Fight,Disagree, Bicker, whatever, I still like you Ft Lauderdale.

GregFL
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Offline Antigen

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Dear Art,
« Reply #133 on: October 06, 2005, 03:34:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-06 12:03:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:


We will never even meet half way on anything.  

Not true, not in the least. All but maybe a few critics have conceded that your intentions were good. You're welcome, btw. I've often stood all alone in believing that it was never just about the money. We all agree that some people benefited from the experience. Not just in the sense that we'll take your word for it, but in the sense of having gained new insight and understanding from individuals telling us about their own experience. I still think it's more about adversity having made them stronger than anything else. But I think that meets the standard of meeting you halfway.

Quote

I'm wasting my time.  Its not worth it.  I've got better things to do."


Can you just take a stab at answering the question? I realize you're at a distinct disadvantage w/ me and Greg here. After all, you had no contact w/ those rebellious, awful, bogus Seedling wannabees after Art instructed you to treat them like splits and withdraws. But please, if you're so thoroughly convinced that your right and we're wrong about it, can you just make an attempt at explaining why?

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams

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Offline Antigen

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Dear Art,
« Reply #134 on: October 06, 2005, 03:51:00 PM »
Walter, I'm sorry, I missed your post in all the excitement and flurry.

Quote
On 2005-10-06 10:32:00, cleveland wrote:

 I am also guessing that there was a group of kids who left the Seed and went on to get into trouble; some will say that is due to the Seed but I think it is only anecdotal.


I agree w/ you that it's anywhere from difficult to impossible to sort out cause and effect. On that, I hope, we can all agree. But here's a grain of salt for you in the form of a personal anectdote.

What kind of effect do you think Program culture and all those open meetings might have on the mind of a little kid such as I was? I can tell you some of it, the rest is anybody's guess. For one, I was never allowed anything close to a normal relationship w/ ... well, with anybody. Non-Seedlings were taboo, even at age 8 or so. I couldn't confice my real thoughts, feelings or difficulties w/ family, either; not w/o running the unthinkable risk of being deemed a soon-to-be-druggie and getting a dose of the "treatment". So I was just about the most lonely little girl imaginable and I couldn't even confess to being lonely. After all, I had the whole Seed family to call my own... yadda, yadda, yo know how that goes.

Second, I got a lot of my worldview from the Program. After all, I had no other sources and there was all KINDS of pressure to accept Art's fantasy as reality.

Take, for example, the intended effect of all those newcomer and oldcomer introductions vs. the unintended consequences on an impressionable little kid. The intent, of course, was to shock the squares in the audience w/ all the raunchy details of druggied teenaged girls gone wild. To me? I heard over and over again about stealing the family car, doing drugs, hitchhiking around the country and being permiscuous. And I believed as I was told (of course I did! I was a little kid) that that was THE alternative to being a good little Seedling. When the pressure became too much, I took the only alternative I knew of. What a fucking wakeup call that was!

Where I had been the weird, loner geek in school up until then, THAT made me a total pariah. The week or so that I attended highschool between my grand adventure as Queen of the Road and my intake at Straight, kids who used to treat me rather decently actually turned and walked the other way when they saw me coming. My behavior, which I took entirely from all those "whenIwasadruggieeeeee...." stories was completely enexplicable and frightening to my schoolmates. They just didn't know how to deal w/ that.

So thank you, Art, for sharing your wisdumb and worldview. If it hadn't been for you, I might have just grown up like a normal kid and, like most our former family friends and neighbors, graduated highschool, married a local boy, raised kids, gone into business, etc. I must say (and I'm only being half snide here) this path has been, by far and away, more interesting, even if it has probably been more difficult. Either way, here I am today. I wouldn't want to change one detail for fear of never even knowing the joys of living the life I have now.

I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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