Dear John U

[rjfro22]

Gregfl,
            How did your parents find out about the Seed?
What possessed them so seek out help for you.?

[Thom]

I also agree with your assesm,ent of Barker. He was just an ego tripping bastard who one day will rot forever in hell.

So....what will he do the next day?

[GregFL]

Are you kidding me?  First, "A seed of hope" was running on channel 44 all the time. Second, all the rage in St Pete was to commit your kids.  Third, my step siblings got committed 4 days or so before I did, and then they asked the group who had done drugs with their brother and sister.  

At the time I was committed to the seed, while no angel, I was living with my mom in ft lauderdale and had not even smoked a joint in over a month.  my father, on instruction from staff in st pete, made up a lie about wanting to see us and drove us from Ft lauderdale right to the st pete seed where we were badgered by Mrs Peterman.  If the allegations about the guy that did my strip search are true, I was strip searched by a rapist.

I was threatened and lied to for hours before they had me sign the paper, and they kept coming back from the group with first names of kids in the group that were claiming they did this drug or that drug with me or my sister, and in the final analysis was threatened with my father declaring me incorrigible and sending me to the infamous SPJD center for a rousing round of anal rape if I didn't sign myself in for "just three days..if you don't like it after that you can go".

Honesty was what again? The first and most what?

[Ft. Lauderdale]

Antigen- It sounds like you are alot more like your mother than you would like to see.  The apple does not fall far from the tree.

[Jupiter Survivor]

I remember that my grandmother (who lived with us) told me that staff was asking my mom about kids that hung out with names and addresses.  She was told to talk to those parents and try to "save" those kids. Amway meets the Moonies....kind of like a pyramid scam, only they didn't get commissions, just that nice fuzzy feeling that they are saving the world from the evils of drugs.  Art and the senior staff constantly were telling the parents that is was their duty to spread the word.  

I know I was no angel, but my family life was.....well let me just say very few people I have met have had worse.  My mother dumped us at churches, Christian schools, where ever she could, with whoever would take us.   The school I was at before the Seed was Berean Baptist in WPB. Of course I didn't fit in there either.  Even after graduating the Seed, I was told by that principle that girls like me would never change.  I figured why bother trying, was damned if I do, damned if I don't.  When I started dating my husband, I can still remember my mom telling me not to screw that up like I did everything else....in a sense she was dumping me on him.   To this day my mom still has never said "I am proud of you".  She still thinks that the Seed was the best thing to happened to her.....er us.  Crap, it probably was.  My brother and I were gone almost a year, it was a vacation of sorts for her.  I didn't realize at the time that  my Aunts and Uncles were very upset that she had put us in the Seed.  Although they didn't know the extent of our family life, they knew that is wasn't normal.  

I really think that parents were different in the 70's. My mom was actually 2 generations older than me. I never even owed a pair of jeans till I was 14. She was still under the "children should be seen not heard" mind set.  Most of my friends, like myself are very involved in their children's lives.  She had 3 failed marriages, all alcoholic and physically abusive.  My oldest brother had to finally take a gun after my dad and make my mom leave and he was only 17. That left her emotionally dead and unable to be a loving parent.   I am lucky to have a great relationship with kids.  My oldest is in College in Boca and we talk to each other every day.  I had a good example of what not to be.  

Some survive, some give up.....I teetered between the two for a long time.  Ultimately I survived and took charge of my life.  The process was not easy or quick.  The only thing I have not managed to conquer is smoking........which was almost encouraged at the Seed. Amazing....14 years old and my mom brought my brother and I a carton of smokes every week.

[GregFL]

Part of the unofficial seed uniform of the st pete seed was a white tee shirt with a top pocket....for your marboros of course. I smoked every fucking chance I got to dull the pain and to make me fit in with the older kids.

Kind of ironic that my stepfather died from cigarretes and my mother is in the process of dying from them. The only drug that has killed anyone in my family was endorsed and encouraged at the seed, even for little children.

[FueLaw]

I also started smoking in the Seed. It took me around 20 tries over many years to quit.

Remember this rule: "Smoking on the hour or when the rap leader smokes". I am sure there was good reason for this rule. Maybe Underwood or some other enlightened staff member could tell us. I even remember discussing this rule during rules rap.

[Anonymous]

Because people were smoking too much.  It was to cut back on all the smoking.  Hardly anyone smoked in the last 20 years.

[Jupiter Survivor]

I did a few drugs after I left the Seed, nothing major just a little pot.  My brother on the other hand, who says the Seed was great has been on dugs since he left.  He dropped out of school in 9th grade and his drug use is so bad he doesn't even have a nose.  My brother Hobby has been homeless numerous times, his life is in shambles, but if you ask him about the Seed it's "Yep they really helped me".

I am very curious as to what career fields the members of this board are in, especially the ex-staff.  Did the Seed experience play any part of that choice?

I stayed at home a few of years while the kids ( 5 kids...10,12,14,16 & 22) were little. I did mostly charity work during those years.  Had a few small businesses I started and then sold, nothing major but it added the little extra's to life.  I am currently volunteering  in a mental health support group (son is Bi-polar and myself dealing with molestation) and making enemies of the local school board. Money has never been a big thing for me, my heart is in working to try to make things better.  Being thrown in the Seed has made me sensitive to those who don't fit in what "we" consider normal.  I see many kids and parents of children with mental illness and/or learning disabilities that are misdiagnosed, over medicated, throw in behavioral classes or hospitals because of lack of information and choices.  I feel compelled to give a voice to those who that no one is listening to. Mostly in part because in my youth, no one ever spoke up for me.  Although I am not very assertive with things in my life, I am a force to be reckoned with for my children and others ( this is a constant amusement for my husband).  

My life has been very influenced by the Seed.....just decided to turn it into something good instead of letting it eat me alive.

[cleveland]

Jupiter,

My post-Seed careers have been:

A. Art Education (High School)
B. Museum administration and exhibit design
C. Non-profit community development

I went to art school right after the Seed, eventually getting my master's degree in education. I did some work as a studio artist, but found that I didn't like the 'sales' part of it (ironically I am currently getting licensed in real estate!) I probably would have gone into the mental health field if I had a psych background, but I didn't. I went thru a lot of therapy myself, went into Adult Children of Alcoholics, Al Anon, etc. too. (My mom is bipolar most likely with alcoholism). I am very interested in understanding family systems, obviously, and my concern for this issue now extends to society, so I am trying to understand how to make a difference here, hence my current career. My biggest career move right now is my first child, at age 46, so that is the top priority and so much fun.

If I hadn't gone into the Seed? I really don't know, except that I might have completed my schooling much sooner - I took 7 years of Seed-time out.

Walter

[marshall]

quote--------
"My brother on the other hand, who says the Seed was great has been on dugs since he left."
-------------

That's the strange disconnect. If you are strongly pro-seed but keep using drugs or regularly relapsing...are you considered a success story? If you are strongly critical of the program but have remained drug-free...are you considered a failure? I think this disconnect is pretty common. I used to manage a radio station and I once fired a guy for being sloppy drunk while on the air. He was delivering a monologue to his listeners about how wonderful AA is...all while drunk.

[ This Message was edited by: marshall on 2005-09-30 09:20 ]

[wtaylorg]

I think this is how it went, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Around '83, A yr after I moved down there, maybe a little earlier Art had a problem with his heart and was advised to quit smoking. Therefore smoking was banned at the Seed, at least in the bldg. Some guys and maybe girls still smoked elsewhere. I can't be certain. I used to ride around with Bob K and he would smoke.
I lived out in Davie at Bob W's house and sometimes I would ride out west  of Davie, going to the bank, near the Everglades, and have a smoke. I was busted a few times for having a cigarette while I stayed the night.
Staff told me I didn't need 'em, because now I was loved. (smile) I was certainly not comfortable enough to give up the only thing that gave me any sense of relief then.

Maybe a yr after the no smoking rule, Art had another heart problem and required a procedure of some sort. This initiated the "get healthy" rule. Prior to this the "girls made cookies, candy, that kind of thing and would bring it into the group. Not after that.

So, the point is the Seed mirrored Art's behavior and ideaology at the time. It changed as Art changed.
But, Art would still say in the group all the time he never changed because he was perfect.This idea was constantly repeated in raps. We had to change to come to Art's level. But, it was highly unlikely we ever would. Maybe the "blue bloods", but not the "workers".
Thanks for the proletariat!

[Antigen]

On 2005-09-30 08:58:00, marshall wrote:

That's the strange disconnect. If you are strongly pro-seed but keep using drugs or regularly relapsing...are you considered a success story? If you are strongly critical of the program but have remained drug-free...are you considered a failure?

That's been my experience, or pretty close. Though I've never sworn off drugs, I have gone years w/o ever purchasing so much as a dime bag of pot or a 6-pack of beer. Why? I had kids to feed, bills to pay and no really good career options. I simply couldn't afford it.

On the other hand, I have two brothers who have struggled constantly w/ substance abuse and other compulsion issues. But they both do the stepcraft boogie on a regular basis, and so they're members in good standing of what used to be my family.

It seems to be the rhetoric that matters. If you blame all your own asshole moves on some recreational activity or other, then you're a good person deserving of love, acceptance, support and kindness. If you take responsibility for your own actions and insist that drugs are not controling anybody, well then you get the bum's rush.

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Apostate 10/82 -
Anonymity Anonymous

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-30 05:15:00, Jupiter Survivor wrote:

"I did a few drugs after I left the Seed, nothing major just a little pot.  My brother on the other hand, who says the Seed was great has been on dugs since he left.

How typical...

[GregFL]

On 2005-09-30 11:06:00, wtaylorg wrote:

"I think this is how it went, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Around '83, A yr after I moved down there, maybe a little earlier Art had a problem with his heart and was advised to quit smoking. Therefore smoking was banned at the Seed,

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Even more typical...