Typical Day at Sagewalk

[dougm]

I don't know how to really dispell the myths about Sagewalk being a "boot camp" and students being "tortured and abused" other than just describing how a typical day went for me. This is rather long so pop some popcorn or something...

Day starts off by counselors calling 5 minutes. This means that everyone has 5 minutes to be dressed, have their sleeping bags hung on a tree, grab their food bags, and be sitting around the firepit. If everyone does not have this done by 5 minutes, everything gets put back the way it was, then you do it again until every thing is completed in the 5 minute slot. After this, there is hygeine. This involves filling your cup with water and soap, taking your rag and washing your face, hands and feet. I believe 8 or 10 minutes was given for hygeine. You had to be checked off by a counselor. If not everyone was checked off by a counselor in the allotted time, everyone had to do it again, although it was fairly easy the second time around, since most everyone was already clean and didnt need to do additional scrubbing. Then came breakfast, usually 20 minute time limit. Breakfast consisted of usually cold oats, with water, powdered milk, and then if you rationed well, brown sugar and raisins. If a fire was going, campers had the option of heating their oats, although only a few did so (I preferred my oats cold). You were required to eat at least 2 cups of oats, and one quart of water, both checked off (one girl forgot to check off that she had drank her quart of water, was forced to drink another and promptly vomited next to me) After this, you needed to clean your cup, which involved taking making mud and scrubbing the inside of your cup with it and rinsing it out until it was spotless. If everyone did not have their food eaten and cups cleaned by time limit, then spices would not be available for later meals (you needed to make 3 time limits in a row in order to have spices). All food that was prepared is required to be eaten, regardless if you feel full or the food doesn't taste good. Some people vomited because of this, including myself after using too much spice on my rice and lentils. After this, usually came some sort of planned activity, gathering firewood, some sort of group therapy, or when we were moved to a site in the Orinoco (?) Forest, day-hiking (food and water only, no packs) up mountains and through forests and what not (probably the most fun activity there, incredibly beautiful) although we couldn't really do this at the high desert site and apparently, SW has moved back there where I spent my first 10 days or so. Gathering firewood was rather difficult in the high desert, since we were required by both SW and BLM policy to take only dead and down trees. Lunch was usually very light, just some granola and another quart of water. Very easy to make time limit, if there was one (sometimes we would stop hiking and sit and snack then continue). This meal wasn't required, but was only taken away if the group was misbehaving (never taken away if we were hiking or going to hike). Afternoon activities were performed, sometimes our "homework", coursework that focused on goals, aspirations, management skills, etc. not your typical math, science, english etc. or more firewood collecting, therapy, etc. Dinner was usually at sunset or so (preceeded by hygeine again), since we could not really do much after dark anyways. Dinner was rice and lentils except for Wednesday nights and Thursday nights. Wednesday night, we were given dehydrated refried beans and tortillas, made absolutely amazing (well, in comparison to the rice and lentils) burritos and Thursday nights was Macaroni night, which if you still had some cheese (most was used during burrito night) could make mac and cheese. Even without cheese, however, just regular macaroni was much better tasting than the rice and lentils. Since Rice and Lentils take at least 20 minutes to cook on the fire, time limit was either 40 minutes or 60 minutes depending on behavior (longer time limit for better behavior). While food was cooking, we were required to write a page in our journals. We also had a moment of silence (controversial, i think) and this was also the time when most of the group therapy occurred, when counselors encouraged the campers to express greivances, whether it be with SW, the counselors themselves, other students, or just problems in general. Usually, this either allowed for compromise and conflict resolution, or sometimes flared tempers (some girl I remember believed in Creationism, which I was fine with, but then she started ripping on evolution, which I was not cool with). Food was then eaten, then cups cleaned, food bags put away and we were dismissed to bed. Although we did not have any concept of time of there other than what day it was, I could guess that we received at least 11-12 hours of sleep a night (7-8pm till 7-8am).

Perhaps the least fun activity, and the one with the most controversy, would be the hiking.  This involved taking down camp, with a time limit, packing up, then hiking upwards of 8 miles. Taking down camp involved dismantling the shelter, usually 2 or so tarps tied up to trees with rope. Filling in the firepit, filling in the latrine, then rock and sticking it. Filling up the "reds" (small water jugs). Spilling excessive water from the reds would require you to lift a full "red" above your head 25 times yelling at the top of your lungs "I will not spill the red, this is for my safety (rep number)". After the camp was taken down, next (still during time limit) was to pack our packs...usually involved rolling our gray mats (what we sit on around the campfire) and our tarps up, strapping to the back of the pack, then filling our packs with our sleeping bags, extra clothes and food bags. Packs usually weighed somewhere around 80 (supposively) pounds, depending on how full the food bag was. In addition, several were assigned to carry the full "reds" (probably between 10-20 lbs) in their hands, and someone with the empty whites and siphon hose. Hiking was what you made of it. I had undiagnosed diabetes, I weighed 115 (when I finally got diagnosed and started insulin, I spiked at just under 150 lbs, 35 lbs weight gain in about 3 months) and was chronically fatigued. My first hike, we need to scale a small rock face, basically about 100 ft of steps. I fell over a few times and threw up. I was reassured by my peers that this was normal, and the counselors would make us continue until we reached our destination, regardless of fatigue level. The counselors gave us a break after 1/2 mile after we finished the rock face climb. After I got some water in me, I felt much much better and we hiked another 5 miles or so, me only falling over once more due to a misstep. I was also taught early on in my program that the biggest key to hiking is packing your pack correctly, putting your heavy stuff on top and making sure the waist straps are above your hips. After this tip, hiking was fairly easy, with the only real problem being overall fatigue from high blood sugar (all food is high in carbs to provide energy, which was not good for me). After hiking, camp set-up, opposite of camp take-down with time-limit.  If camp setup or takedown took longer than time limit, rules dictated that we were supposed to re-do it all over again (45 minutes worth of work) but many times, the counselors, if they saw genuine effort and hustle (or if problems out of camper control came to light) they were pretty lienent.

I'm positive I've forgotten many things, or certain details are incorrect, it has been 3 years since I attended. If you have any questions as to other stuff, feel free to post them here, or im usually on AIM/AOL at phawktard. Please, if you're going to contact me on AIM, don't abuse this. I'm more than willing to answer questions as long as they're not of rhetorical nature...leave your criticism here on the board.

Doug

[Anonymous]

My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-25 13:34:00, dougm wrote:

"I don't know how to really dispell the myths about Sagewalk being a "boot camp" and students being "tortured and abused" other than just describing how a typical day went for me. This is rather long so pop some popcorn or something...



Day starts off by counselors calling 5 minutes. This means that everyone has 5 minutes to be dressed, have their sleeping bags hung on a tree, grab their food bags, and be sitting around the firepit. If everyone does not have this done by 5 minutes, everything gets put back the way it was, then you do it again until every thing is completed in the 5 minute slot. After this, there is hygeine. This involves filling your cup with water and soap, taking your rag and washing your face, hands and feet. I believe 8 or 10 minutes was given for hygeine. You had to be checked off by a counselor. If not everyone was checked off by a counselor in the allotted time, everyone had to do it again, although it was fairly easy the second time around, since most everyone was already clean and didnt need to do additional scrubbing. Then came breakfast, usually 20 minute time limit. Breakfast consisted of usually cold oats, with water, powdered milk, and then if you rationed well, brown sugar and raisins. If a fire was going, campers had the option of heating their oats, although only a few did so (I preferred my oats cold). You were required to eat at least 2 cups of oats, and one quart of water, both checked off (one girl forgot to check off that she had drank her quart of water, was forced to drink another and promptly vomited next to me) After this, you needed to clean your cup, which involved taking making mud and scrubbing the inside of your cup with it and rinsing it out until it was spotless. If everyone did not have their food eaten and cups cleaned by time limit, then spices would not be available for later meals (you needed to make 3 time limits in a row in order to have spices). All food that was prepared is required to be eaten, regardless if you feel full or the food doesn't taste good. Some people vomited because of this, including myself after using too much spice on my rice and lentils. After this, usually came some sort of planned activity, gathering firewood, some sort of group therapy, or when we were moved to a site in the Orinoco (?) Forest, day-hiking (food and water only, no packs) up mountains and through forests and what not (probably the most fun activity there, incredibly beautiful) although we couldn't really do this at the high desert site and apparently, SW has moved back there where I spent my first 10 days or so. Gathering firewood was rather difficult in the high desert, since we were required by both SW and BLM policy to take only dead and down trees. Lunch was usually very light, just some granola and another quart of water. Very easy to make time limit, if there was one (sometimes we would stop hiking and sit and snack then continue). This meal wasn't required, but was only taken away if the group was misbehaving (never taken away if we were hiking or going to hike). Afternoon activities were performed, sometimes our "homework", coursework that focused on goals, aspirations, management skills, etc. not your typical math, science, english etc. or more firewood collecting, therapy, etc. Dinner was usually at sunset or so (preceeded by hygeine again), since we could not really do much after dark anyways. Dinner was rice and lentils except for Wednesday nights and Thursday nights. Wednesday night, we were given dehydrated refried beans and tortillas, made absolutely amazing (well, in comparison to the rice and lentils) burritos and Thursday nights was Macaroni night, which if you still had some cheese (most was used during burrito night) could make mac and cheese. Even without cheese, however, just regular macaroni was much better tasting than the rice and lentils. Since Rice and Lentils take at least 20 minutes to cook on the fire, time limit was either 40 minutes or 60 minutes depending on behavior (longer time limit for better behavior). While food was cooking, we were required to write a page in our journals. We also had a moment of silence (controversial, i think) and this was also the time when most of the group therapy occurred, when counselors encouraged the campers to express greivances, whether it be with SW, the counselors themselves, other students, or just problems in general. Usually, this either allowed for compromise and conflict resolution, or sometimes flared tempers (some girl I remember believed in Creationism, which I was fine with, but then she started ripping on evolution, which I was not cool with). Food was then eaten, then cups cleaned, food bags put away and we were dismissed to bed. Although we did not have any concept of time of there other than what day it was, I could guess that we received at least 11-12 hours of sleep a night (7-8pm till 7-8am).



Perhaps the least fun activity, and the one with the most controversy, would be the hiking.  This involved taking down camp, with a time limit, packing up, then hiking upwards of 8 miles. Taking down camp involved dismantling the shelter, usually 2 or so tarps tied up to trees with rope. Filling in the firepit, filling in the latrine, then rock and sticking it. Filling up the "reds" (small water jugs). Spilling excessive water from the reds would require you to lift a full "red" above your head 25 times yelling at the top of your lungs "I will not spill the red, this is for my safety (rep number)". After the camp was taken down, next (still during time limit) was to pack our packs...usually involved rolling our gray mats (what we sit on around the campfire) and our tarps up, strapping to the back of the pack, then filling our packs with our sleeping bags, extra clothes and food bags. Packs usually weighed somewhere around 80 (supposively) pounds, depending on how full the food bag was. In addition, several were assigned to carry the full "reds" (probably between 10-20 lbs) in their hands, and someone with the empty whites and siphon hose. Hiking was what you made of it. I had undiagnosed diabetes, I weighed 115 (when I finally got diagnosed and started insulin, I spiked at just under 150 lbs, 35 lbs weight gain in about 3 months) and was chronically fatigued. My first hike, we need to scale a small rock face, basically about 100 ft of steps. I fell over a few times and threw up. I was reassured by my peers that this was normal, and the counselors would make us continue until we reached our destination, regardless of fatigue level. The counselors gave us a break after 1/2 mile after we finished the rock face climb. After I got some water in me, I felt much much better and we hiked another 5 miles or so, me only falling over once more due to a misstep. I was also taught early on in my program that the biggest key to hiking is packing your pack correctly, putting your heavy stuff on top and making sure the waist straps are above your hips. After this tip, hiking was fairly easy, with the only real problem being overall fatigue from high blood sugar (all food is high in carbs to provide energy, which was not good for me). After hiking, camp set-up, opposite of camp take-down with time-limit.  If camp setup or takedown took longer than time limit, rules dictated that we were supposed to re-do it all over again (45 minutes worth of work) but many times, the counselors, if they saw genuine effort and hustle (or if problems out of camper control came to light) they were pretty lienent.



I'm positive I've forgotten many things, or certain details are incorrect, it has been 3 years since I attended. If you have any questions as to other stuff, feel free to post them here, or im usually on AIM/AOL at phawktard. Please, if you're going to contact me on AIM, don't abuse this. I'm more than willing to answer questions as long as they're not of rhetorical nature...leave your criticism here on the board.



Doug

"

Well, aint' that special.

Seriously, no offense Doug ... but your wilderness therapy experience reads like a Dear Diary entry.

Glad it "worked" for you but you are one of the lucky ones.  Other kids have come home from wilderness therapy programs in body bags.

How's that for the ultiamte testimonial these programs can kill?

 :idea:

[Anonymous]

It's pretty much what I've heard from others who have been in this kind of program

I may be wrong but I think you'll wait a long time before most posters here thank you for your detailed account of what you remember---see--- you just didn't embellish it enough to make it acceptable to a lot of people here

But you do a great service by posting what you know is true---a lot of parents have kids in Sagewalk or some place similar right now---stories like yours give some perspective, what with the stories most people post here.  

It reaffirms what we should all remember---it's about picking a good but demanding program---and remembering to consider the source when you hear people slamming any particular program---the questions have to be "How likely is this story to be true? and "What vested interest does the story teller have to either play up or play down the whole truth?"

Personally I don't think you sound like you have a need to either play the story up or down---it just sounds like someone honestly describing his own experience

[Anonymous]

My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?"

Good question.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-25 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It's pretty much what I've heard from others who have been in this kind of program



I may be wrong but I think you'll wait a long time before most posters here thank you for your detailed account of what you remember---see--- you just didn't embellish it enough to make it acceptable to a lot of people here



But you do a great service by posting what you know is true---a lot of parents have kids in Sagewalk or some place similar right now---stories like yours give some perspective, what with the stories most people post here.  



It reaffirms what we should all remember---it's about picking a good but demanding program---and remembering to consider the source when you hear people slamming any particular program---the questions have to be "How likely is this story to be true? and "What vested interest does the story teller have to either play up or play down the whole truth?"



Personally I don't think you sound like you have a need to either play the story up or down---it just sounds like someone honestly describing his own experience"

Personally?  I think you all have a problem accepting the fact that it is unethical and immoral to exploit children for profit.

 :smokin:

[Anonymous]

It's just that most people here have been in places too...and pretty much anything that deals with teaching kids that they can't trust themselves, things like when to stop eating, when to stop hiking, etc, is abusive by nature. It doesn't matter the context. That takes away your ability to take care of yourself. We feel full for a reason...because it's time to stop. Can't you see how sick this is? And they just make you keep going if you didn't check it off? God what is the point? Total submission that's what. Total submission so the parents can all feel happy again they haven't lost their little girl/boy.

[dougm]

On 2005-07-25 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?"

The "therapy" is really quite subtle, basically, you are given your basic needs in life and you are to "learn life" at a very simplistic level. You are forced to take care of yourself, which in the real world, these kids aren't doing. Another real positive aspect is for kids who abuse drugs (majority of the kids I was there with) is the sobering process. I personally have no qualms against drinking and smoking weed (I have done both since leaving the program) but abusing those plus more explicit drugs while a minor should not be tolerated by parents. The first couple of weeks sober is the most crucial time for addicts and what not to clean up. And since most of the kids there haven't been using for years upon years like many adults, they can usually leave the program without any sort of physical addiction (although the pyschological want can still be present).

The reason I was sent to Sagewalk was my behavior primarily. I was depressed, I was lethargic and unmotivated. I spent most of my waking hours on the computer, unless I was at school, but sleep took up most of my time (upwards of 14 hours a day). I was socially inept, no real friends (I sort of bounced around from clique to clique in HS). I ran away from home and attempted to drop out of school. I had no troubles with drugs or drinking at the time (typical experimentation with pot as a Freshman in HS and got drunk once about 3 months before I went to SW), my parents were just frustrated that I was unresponsive to the other forms of therapy and I refused to take medications at the time because I believed I was fine and it was my parents' fault for my problems. The final straw that sent me to SW was my dad driving me to school one day and then grabbing my arm and almost dragging me into school in front of pretty much everyone. I tried not to make a scene, but later I called him up at work and basically screamed "F*** YOU" into the phone and hung up. I was sent to SW 2 days later.  The problem though, wasn't really pyschological though, I had undiagnosed diabetes. My blood sugar was sky high for over a year before I was finally diagnosed. The high blood sugar made me extremely fatigued, which caused me to sleep constantly and be slow and tired when I was awake.

As for my behavior changing after SW, not much changed. I was happy to be home for the first week or so. Then everything started to unwind, and I was admitted to the hospital a month after I left SW for suicidal thoughts. After I started insulin, 10 months after I left, it was almost a miracle, I gained 35 pounds in 3 months (115 to 150) and I got along fine with my parents. My parents were extremely apologetic about sending me to SW afterwards, but I couldn't be mad at anyone. No one knew, and you can't blame anyone for that. If one thing SW did for me was it really made me appreciate the little things, there were days after coming back where I would sit in a tub of warm water for hours on end. I attempted to purchase the same oats I had at SW and I ate a lot healthier afterwards (much more fruit in my diet)

So why do I support SageWalk if it didn't do much for me?

Seeing other kids, who had basically given up on themselves of ever amounting to anything, leaving the program excited to go back out and prove themselves. That's the stuff you don't hear on these forums of gloom and doom. Yes, I understand there have been death, some that could have been prevented. But for all the death and tragedy, there are many more stories of success that don't seem to be welcome here.

[dougm]

Dear Diary entry? You betcha.

That was my intention from the get-go. I'm trying to show how the typical day went and how I don't see the program amounting towards "abuse and torture".

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-25 16:01:00, dougm wrote:

"

On 2005-07-25 13:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


"My question is: what exactly is therapeutic about any of these activities? What caused your parents to send you to Sagewalk, and how did those behaviors change when you came home?"

The "therapy" is really quite subtle, basically, you are given your basic needs in life and you are to "learn life" at a very simplistic level. You are forced to take care of yourself, which in the real world, these kids aren't doing. Another real positive aspect is for kids who abuse drugs (majority of the kids I was there with) is the sobering process. I personally have no qualms against drinking and smoking weed (I have done both since leaving the program) but abusing those plus more explicit drugs while a minor should not be tolerated by parents. The first couple of weeks sober is the most crucial time for addicts and what not to clean up. And since most of the kids there haven't been using for years upon years like many adults, they can usually leave the program without any sort of physical addiction (although the pyschological want can still be present).



The reason I was sent to Sagewalk was my behavior primarily. I was depressed, I was lethargic and unmotivated. I spent most of my waking hours on the computer, unless I was at school, but sleep took up most of my time (upwards of 14 hours a day). I was socially inept, no real friends (I sort of bounced around from clique to clique in HS). I ran away from home and attempted to drop out of school. I had no troubles with drugs or drinking at the time (typical experimentation with pot as a Freshman in HS and got drunk once about 3 months before I went to SW), my parents were just frustrated that I was unresponsive to the other forms of therapy and I refused to take medications at the time because I believed I was fine and it was my parents' fault for my problems. The final straw that sent me to SW was my dad driving me to school one day and then grabbing my arm and almost dragging me into school in front of pretty much everyone. I tried not to make a scene, but later I called him up at work and basically screamed "F*** YOU" into the phone and hung up. I was sent to SW 2 days later.  The problem though, wasn't really pyschological though, I had undiagnosed diabetes. My blood sugar was sky high for over a year before I was finally diagnosed. The high blood sugar made me extremely fatigued, which caused me to sleep constantly and be slow and tired when I was awake.



As for my behavior changing after SW, not much changed. I was happy to be home for the first week or so. Then everything started to unwind, and I was admitted to the hospital a month after I left SW for suicidal thoughts. After I started insulin, 10 months after I left, it was almost a miracle, I gained 35 pounds in 3 months (115 to 150) and I got along fine with my parents. My parents were extremely apologetic about sending me to SW afterwards, but I couldn't be mad at anyone. No one knew, and you can't blame anyone for that. If one thing SW did for me was it really made me appreciate the little things, there were days after coming back where I would sit in a tub of warm water for hours on end. I attempted to purchase the same oats I had at SW and I ate a lot healthier afterwards (much more fruit in my diet)



So why do I support SageWalk if it didn't do much for me?



Seeing other kids, who had basically given up on themselves of ever amounting to anything, leaving the program excited to go back out and prove themselves. That's the stuff you don't hear on these forums of gloom and doom. Yes, I understand there have been death, some that could have been prevented. But for all the death and tragedy, there are many more stories of success that don't seem to be welcome here."

It's not that those stories aren't welcome here, it's that most of us have been in a facility and have been haunted by it ever since. By definition alone that is a failed program. Most of us are adults, long past our so called rebellious youth, and *have* learned to take care of ourselves, and usually we learn this is very different skill from the skills we picked up as a result of our incarceration. We can clearly see when you are teaching kids that they are not to be trusted, and that everything is their fault, life gets harder. You are right though...they *may* be less angry for a while, they may appreciate things more, but what is the underlying lesson? What's behind that stuff is WAY more important than a few surfacey improvements/changes. To basically ignore the warning signals you get from situations and push on through. You should know this lesson better than anyone, you were put into a program, a therapeutic program, for a medical issue. You could sue for that. That's what I've been talking about...professionals are supposed to tell people their options, and people with physical symptoms like that are supposed to be told to see a doctor for a thorough checkup. You are a perfect example of why. You say they didn't know...the reality of the situation is that counselors are trained in school to look for possible medical illnesses. And to refer people to a medical doctor if it seems possible that could be the cause. Look it up, it's in the DSM-IV the Bible for making diagnoses. The real reason they probably overlooked that---exactly because of their mentality that you can't be trusted, you are always to blame.

IMO, a physically intense program like that is completely negligent if it doesnt check the medical condition of ALL of its clients to make sure they are actually in good health before they march them through "blizzards" as they call it.

[dougm]

I understand I was put in a program for a medical reason. I had seen my family doctor before and I described my symptoms and what not, I looked up the symptoms online and suggested a thyroid problem. He checked it just to humor I suppose but didn't suspect anything more than just perhaps "growing up".  So it wasn't as if it was just neglect by the counselors, I was seen by a doctor about my symptoms, then received another physical (blood was not taken, however) before I went to SW. The counselors are not to blame for not diagnosing me. My case was also extremely uncommon that I didn't develop my Type 1 until the teenage years. Most people are diagnosed as young kids.

As for suing, it seems this site revolves on empty threats of legal action. But if I were to hypothetically sue SW for negligence, what would I sue for? Monetary compensation? haha. Or even better, how about suing my parents? The people who didn't spoil me despite having the means to do so. The people who spent hours upon hours attempting to get me the help I needed, regardless if it was in vain.  

I understood that my actions warranted my parents sending me there. I know that the parents have problems too, but for the likes of me, I still cannot understand how *all* the focus is on the fault of the parents, and none of the children. Are they/we not to be held responsible for our actions anymore?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-25 17:13:00, dougm wrote:

"I understand I was put in a program for a medical reason. I had seen my family doctor before and I described my symptoms and what not, I looked up the symptoms online and suggested a thyroid problem. He checked it just to humor I suppose but didn't suspect anything more than just perhaps "growing up".  So it wasn't as if it was just neglect by the counselors, I was seen by a doctor about my symptoms, then received another physical (blood was not taken, however) before I went to SW. The counselors are not to blame for not diagnosing me. My case was also extremely uncommon that I didn't develop my Type 1 until the teenage years. Most people are diagnosed as young kids.



As for suing, it seems this site revolves on empty threats of legal action. But if I were to hypothetically sue SW for negligence, what would I sue for? Monetary compensation? haha. Or even better, how about suing my parents? The people who didn't spoil me despite having the means to do so. The people who spent hours upon hours attempting to get me the help I needed, regardless if it was in vain.  



I understood that my actions warranted my parents sending me there. I know that the parents have problems too, but for the likes of me, I still cannot understand how *all* the focus is on the fault of the parents, and none of the children. Are they/we not to be held responsible for our actions anymore?"

I really do appreciate your posts here, you seem very level-headed and reasonable. However...a few things stand out to me. You yourself believed that something medical was wrong with you. You looked it up and had a better idea what was wrong with you than either your doctor or counselor. Does that not strike you as odd? And why would your doctor just "humor" you? I would think he should have taken it very seriously. And was nobody listening to what you were trying to say or tell them? You believed so much that something was wrong you looked up all the symptoms and did research yourself. But then it seems you and others doubted your own experience of what was truly wrong. That is a problem when talking about professionals.

As far as suing goes, understand that would be your choice. If it was me, and I thought it was an honest mistake, I probably wouldn't be interested in suing. But if I thought it was negligence bordering on maliciousness, I might feel differently. What would you sue for? That would depend on you too. I would sue just to let others know that the place wasn't all it claimed to be, and to potentially save someone from going through what I did.

[dougm]

I believed something was wrong with me, but I trusted the doctor. I don't blame the doctor either, the only real symptoms that I described was my weight loss and chronic tiredness. But I was still able to function at some level, so the doctor probably believed my symptoms were not anything serious. Had I described that I was also eating and drinking like a horse (2 gallons of fluid a day, constant urination, lots and lots of food), he probably could've made some sort of diagnosis, but my failure to put two and two together equates to me shooting myself in the foot. Also saying the doctor was "humoring" me was an exagerration. I asked him "Could it be Hyper/Hypothyroidism?" and he listed the symptoms, half of which fit, so I said, "well, kinda". He, then, checked my thyroid by pressing on my throat, didn't find anything out of the ordinary. To my credit, I had the right idea with something being wrong with my endocrine system :grin:

With the suing, I just don't believe in suing. It's part me being anti-lawyer and part me not seeing how I could possibly benefit for any other reason than greed.

[Anonymous]

What did you end up doing for the hyperthyroidism? I was also diagnosed with that when in a psychiatric hospital once, and even went to see an endo doc, but his talk of radiation and stuff scared me off. I just choose to live with it. I am curious if anything you have done has helped. I am being completely serious, program opinions aside, I am just curious. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Wilderness Therapy SHOULD BE VOLUNTARY like REAL THERAPY.

Funny how many Stepfordish program parents and kids swear they "tried everything" except family therapy before resorting to sending the kid away for some expensive "accountability".

It's a racket, Doug.

Face it.  Therapy in the Woods for $20k?

Get Real!