Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Rather than speculate about other people's identities and motives perhaps it would be better to open your mind, and realize the possibility that some people have different experiences in programs than others. The world is not black and white, as fornits perceives it to be. Fornits is color blind to this and I use my experiences and honesty to paint a colorful picture that enrages people here for its ability to contradict a favored narrative, but I have a right to my opinions just as anybody else does. I feel sad for the person you describe above as well, lucky for me I'm not them.

No one really cares if you had a good program experience. Some of us do care that your shilling for WWASP in the name of trollin'. You outted yourself there with your post deletions. That was one of your trademarks back in the day. You'd delete every single one of your posts and disappear.

You are constructing a conspiracy theory, just like many people on fornits seem to do. Psy knew who Whooter was, how did that work out? People should keep an open mind on fornits, and not be so quick to adopt assumptions as fact.

One of your friends PM'ed me earlier to let me know I was right about you being PosterX, urging me to move on because you really did feel threatened and were just trying to prove a point.

This is laughably inaccurate. I don't communicate with anybody here via PM or email, I have never talked to anyone other than what is posted on the forum. I have no friends here, and whoever sent you that PM was spinning the usual conspiracy theories that make up the bulk of the fornits mythology. Yesterday people were sure I was a program parent. Today they were sure I was Whooter. Now I am supposedly the very person blackmailing me, it's sad people need to construct outlandish theories rather than accept the truth staring them in the face.

You lied there, SUCK IT.  

No, the person who PMed you lied. I am attacked here for being too honest, and my honesty is now being used against me. I don't need to make anything up or lie, the truth speaks for itself.

How is anybody to know whether you were in a program or not. I mean it wasn't too long ago you were claiming to be richer than any of us, lounging around on the beach.  I have a good guess as to who you might be (same person Che suspects) but even that person wouldn't go to such lengths to support a program that traumatized him to the point where a car approaching from behind could send him into a panic attack -- beating on the hood of the car in front of his girlfriend.  No.  I don't believe he would flip so far over to the other side.  Then again, maybe you are him and you feel better with the illusion that somehow what you went through had some meaning, that somehow they helped you, that somehow you caused it and therefore are in total control of your future.

You are responsible for your actions, but only your actions.  What happened to you, what was done to you, was wrong.  There ARE victims in this life.  You don't choose to be a victim.  Others do that for you, which is exactly what makes it so traumatic.  People who have power over others often do abuse that power and there is no shame at all in being on the receiving end.  Even if in some way you put yourself "on the train tracks" as Erhard would say, it still does not excuse those who were supposed to be taking care of you for their actions.  What went on and what goes on in WWASP programs is by any publicly accepted standard of decency, abuse.  They hurt you.  You were a victim.  It doesn't mean you're powerless but you aren't god either.  It doesn't mean you deserved it or caused it and no matter what the result, it was wrong.  Abuse is not the way to help kids.  The Hobbit, Cat 4s, cat 5s, duct tape, dog cages.  These are serious criminal matters.  Who cares what others such as your parents think.  Empathizing with a point of view and agreeing are two different things, and if you're parents knew and approved of what went on, they're just as guilty as the program.  They might show you compassion as you hit troubled times, they might show you love, but conditional acceptance and support is not love.  It's simply a desire for control, sometimes borne out of love but other times it's just a desire to make you in their image.

I feel sad for you.  I really do.  If you are who I think you are.  You were once so fragile, hurt but full of emotion and compassion.  You were able to sway the views of others.  You were able to convince parents of things even I couldn't dream possible.  You might look back on that and see it as a sign of sickness but I saw a guy with a heart.  Now all i see, all i feel, is hate. Your very name symbolizes what you have become.  You're devoid of compassion, you see victims as having deserved what they god, having put themselves in the situation.  I can't imagine the amount of hate you must feel towards yourself.

Someday, maybe, you'll remember who you were and find the good among the fragile.

Rather than speculate about other people's identities and motives perhaps it would be better to open your mind, and realize the possibility that some people have different experiences in programs than others. The world is not black and white, as fornits perceives it to be. Fornits is color blind to this and I use my experiences and honesty to paint a colorful picture that enrages people here for its ability to contradict a favored narrative, but I have a right to my opinions just as anybody else does. I feel sad for the person you describe above as well, lucky for me I'm not them.

This thread could be deleted with one click of a button by the admins here. But fornits credibility would vanish just as quickly as this thread did, if they choose that route. I don't believe this thread will be deep sixed, because I believe I have a fundamentally better understanding of the intentions of this forum than many of the other users. I have researched it, read through the entire FAQ and terms of service. Guess what? The people who own this site, welcome and entourage all people to post here. There is nothing in there about this being a anti program forum, go look for yourself if you don't believe me.

Everything I've posted in this thread is accurate and true, and yes it really happened. If you can't understand that sometimes little things in life are a big deal, then congratulate yourself on having a relatively easy life. People who have been in stressful situations and scared, and confused know that a simple action can have a tremendously profound impact. If you don't like this thread, go start a thread about negative experiences. I will continue to post my positive experiences in this thread, even if nobody else posts here but me. I really don't care, because I know what I went through and how to interpret my experience in an honest way, and share it with others. Isn't that what this discussion forum is all about? I suppose that depends on your perspective on why this forum exists in the first place.

This thread documents the process of how an admin of fornits breaks their own rules. Your IP information is supposed to be kept secret here. My IP information was released against my wishes, and used against me all because I harbor opinions contrary to the acceptable group think. I hope you read through this thread up until post 200 and see the process of how an admin will compromise their principles in order to win an argument. It's an interesting thread, enjoy.

Now Che, if your saying that Whooter and Suck-It are ignoring me because I have views such as these, well OK. I would think that you would be mistaken but who knows here on fornits.

I only ignore people who are aggressive/rude to me. To be honest I don't pay much attention to the elan threads, or the drama associated with all of that, I don't even know what it's about or what people are arguing about it. So as much as that is concerned, I do tend to ignore it because I didn't go to elan and don't know the people involved and so don't pay much attention to it. I appreciate everybody's posts on this forum, some people agree with me sometimes and others don't. I'm here just to share my opinions and people are free to disagree or agree if they want. I tend to pay more attention to posters who are able to acknowledge that this issue is not black or white, and that there is room for different outcomes and experiences from programs. It's hard to have a conversation with an anti treatment extremist because they don't want to hear your side, they just want to preach  about what they view as the one and only truth. I agree with Danny about AA, in that he seems to not think it's evil and I think its actually a great organization that helps millions of people.

As far as people demanding information from me, and questioning my credibility as a result of my lack of answering questions, well tough shit. I will say what I want to say, and if that makes people question whether I am fiction, or lying or whatever that's their right. I am not too concerned with how I am perceived here, I am here to talk about my experiences and opinions and people are free to believe it or disregard it completely. I am not getting involved in the politics and personal battles here because I see it as a waste of time. I am not here trying to sway anybody's opinions or mind, I am just offering my own in the same way I would if I was in a bar having a drink and somebody asked me about being in treatment and what I thought about it. I really could care less what people think of me here, my username should be a hint at that.

As far as affiliations go on fornits, I think right now it's either you are "in" with the group think cult, or you are on the "out". If you are on the "in" you can be quickly shown the door if you say the wrong thing. So to be honest, I am much more comfortable being on the "out" where I can tell my truth as I see it, and not worry what people will think of me for saying it. I think whooter, danny and me are on the "out" because of our opinions and refusal to accept the group think here that people desperate to fit in will spout without giving any real thought to what they are saying. Honesty on fornits means you will not be popular.

I really think you aren't a real person tbh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wxrB41PMhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw_g8BpdCQw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZDjnWtK1A

I thought you might like these.  

One of the most profound positive experiences and lessons I learned in a program was the necessity to take personal accountability for your own actions. Without doing that, in an honest way, you will always remain trapped in a cocoon of denial. When I was a troubled teen I felt like I was a victim of everybody else. Why couldn't they just leave me alone? That's what I kept saying to myself. I want to get high, get drunk, commit crimes, disrespect and put my family in danger. Well I grew up poor, my family had troubles, the teachers were unfair, I didn't get this, I didn't get that. To me the world was unfair and against me. I felt justification in doing whatever I pleased, because if they would fight against me then I don't care about anyone else either. So I was very self centered and the outside world lost relevance more and more as time went by.

When I finally ended up in a program I thought it was an injustice of the greatest magnitude! I was furious and thought, do the American people know that citizens are being held against their will like this? I wanted to climb to the tallest rooftop and scream from the top of my lungs, I want my freedom back. But for me, that freedom meant sure death or imprisonment. So there comes the rub, what is more important, someone's life or their freedom? Who gets to make that distinction and decide when it's gone too far? Right now its parents who make that decision. My parents made the right decision. I know for a fact this is true, and to suggest otherwise might make me feel good. I could have continued to look at it as an injustice. What after some time I was able to get honest with myself and realize, that injustice is what actually saved my life.

Back when I was a teen I would have gladly been out of the program, and free to my own devices. The process of being asked to look at myself honestly, and take accountability for what I had done was difficult and stressful at times. But other times there was positive things that happened, it was not the pit of hellfire and despair that it's often described as here on this forum. I don't live in a black and white world, I can look back on my experiences as they actually happened, not through a political or agenda driven lens.I am able to take accountability for my actions that lead to me being placed in a program. Had I not done certain things, I would have never ended up in a program. Everything that happened was a result of my own actions, I know this now and accept it as truth, because it is.

So I choose to be honest when talking about my experiences on this forum. This is met with hatred, conspiracy theories and plenty of people telling me what I should do, what I should believe, what I should be like, what is wrong with me, and all sorts of theories about why I have come to the conclusions I have. That's all a waste of time. If you want to know why I believe what I do, read my posts, because they are the truth. I am trying my best to be respectful and focus on my own experiences here, and that's what I've been doing. If you don't want to post in this thread, then don't. Start your own threads about negative experiences, that would be great. But people pressuring me to change my views, change who I am, or just plain shut up will not persuade me to not share my own experiences and opinions.

The fact is, in my own personal experience, a private program really did save my life. I'm not going to lie and say it didn't, or lie and say I was abused, or stretch the term of abuse to fit in with what actually happened to me. Yes i was held against my will, because my will involved getting high on drugs, harming myself, and causing mayhem and generally being an asshole in every way imaginable. I constantly was putting my life in danger and other people's because me and my friends would drive around while heavily intoxicated. So me being put in a program, not only saved my life, but possibly the lives of people that we might have killed in a DUI. My parents tried all the local options and alternatives offered by posters here and none of it worked. I simply manipulated my way through all of those hurdles, in my quest to ultimately destroy myself through drug use or suicide. The only thing that stopped me, was to put me in a facility against my will, and have people watching me 24 hours a day. I'm not proud of any of this, in fact it's quite shameful. But I am at  a point in my life where I am willing to be honest about who I was, and what really happened.

It would feel great to think I was right, and should have been free to behave that way. To think that the program was in the wrong, and in fact evil. That my parents are ignorant at best, evil at worst. That society was in fact wrong to tell me no, you are not free to destroy yourself, as a minor child. That I was abused and imprisoned against my will and treated like shit. But none of that is true, and as comfortable a place for my ego as it would be to believe this, I know in my heart it's not true. They saved my life, against my will. I wanted to end it through my behaviors, they demanded that I not do so. I can't speak for other people, this is about my own experience. People are also free to share their own experiences on this forum. I follow a self imposed rule that I don't respond to hatred, conspiracy theories and posts like that. If people expect a response from me, they should be respectful and talk as they wish people talked to them. I am also following this rule now, I am not going to waste my time with arguments here. I am here to share my experiences and opinions with those who wish to read it. If you don't, then don't read it, it really doesn't bother me either way. Thanks

People like you are what made my mom think it was ok to lock me up and torture me.  

Yeah, sure... I bet your mom came onto fornits and saw my posts and said to herself "Wow, SUCK IT sure makes some great points about how great programs are. I was undecided before, but now that SUCK IT endorses programs because you get candy bars, I'll go ahead and send my child to a program. Thanks SUCK IT, sincerely ShadyAcres Mom". I must of missed that thank you note from your family, although I do have my pm's turned off, so maybe I missed it? Lets get real here, the reason you were "locked up and tortured" can probably be answered by getting honest with yourself. I thought of myself as a victim of everyone else, just like you do, until I matured and realized that they were only reacting to me and my behaviors. But hey, if blaming me makes you feel better, that's great for you and I'm happy to provide this valuable service to whoever is in need of someone to blame. But maybe instead of arguing with me, you might want to start some of your own threads like "How I was tortured in a program", that might be more effective in convincing future moms like yours who come here for advice why they shouldn't listen to me.