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Topics - SUCK IT

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Open Free for All / Labor Day Fornits Convention
« on: August 25, 2010, 02:00:56 PM »
I am planing on hosting a fornits convention over the labor day weekend, and was wondering if anybody wanted to help manage and chair this event? I don't have a lot of money to put forward, but I do think I can secure a venue large enough for a group of about 20 people, which will probably cover most everybody here. I was able to get some time off from my boss, and although I will have to miss out on a wage and a half that day, I figured this was more important.

You can bring your own booth if you'd like, and pass out pamphlets and flyers. Booth rental spots are extremely reasonable, and everybody will be allowed. I'm going to get pizza delivered, and bring some bottles of alcohol for people who like to drink. There will be no drugs allowed though, for legal reasons mostly. If you are interested and want to buy tickets, please PM me. If you don't have a place to stay, I have already booked a group rate discount at a nearby hotel and I can send you the discount code to secure this affordable rate.

I think it's important that we meet in real life, and strategize for how we are going to shut down programs this next winter. We all know it's back to school time right now, and this is prime time for parents to begin sending their kids off to programs. As the recessions ebbs, more and more parents will be using programs, and so we need to stick together and work to educate these parents that they are making the wrong choice. We are going to have planning groups for program protest sit ins, we can use the weekend to practice our fasting skills which can come in handy for the upcoming fornits sponsored starvation protests set to occur at programs across the country this year. It's going to be a busy protest season this year, and this should help us coordinate our efforts and strike while the iron is hot.

I have connections with the Bill O'Reilly show, and I have been promised they will send at least one correspondent reporter out to film the event. They might even do a bit on TV about it, are you ready to be interviewed? Well you better practice, because it might happen soon. This protest season is going to be a good one. There are mass hunger strikes planned, marches on abusive programs, and we even rented a helicopter to dump freedom leaflets on programs, so the kids know we are working to secure their freedom. If you are serious about saving kids, then you can spend the paltry sum of money required to attend this convention, you don't want to be the only poster who misses it, do you? For the lower income posters, there will be a scholarship, which is funded by our wealthier fornits posters, thank them very much for that. It shouldn't matter what your income is, everybody should participate in this convention. See you next weekend everybody! I'm so excited.

The Troubled Teen Industry / I'm still here
« on: August 23, 2010, 12:07:41 AM »
This thread documents the process of how an admin of fornits breaks their own rules. Your IP information is supposed to be kept secret here. My IP information was released against my wishes, and used against me all because I harbor opinions contrary to the acceptable group think. I hope you read through this thread up until post 200 and see the process of how an admin will compromise their principles in order to win an argument. It's an interesting thread, enjoy.

Open Free for All / Fornits AA/NA Chapter
« on: August 09, 2010, 02:02:02 PM »
Hi, my name is SUCK IT and I'm an addict and alcoholic.

I need to make a thread here that is a safe place with people with sobriety and addiction issues can come and have a serious conversation and not be ridiculed and shunned.

This thread is going to be an ongoing AA/NA "meeting", in an online form. If you want to introduce yourself you can, or you can remain silent and just read. Please post your experiences with drugs and alcohol if you wish, and why you have problems with substance use and why you sought out help.

I've always had problems with using alcohol or drugs. I've tried to do it as other "normal" people do, but it always gets out of control very quickly. I have had serious health problems as a result and have been hospitalized, these days I am trying my best to be sober. At the moment I am almost winning at this goal, but sometimes I slip up. But I don't give up, I keep trying. I know that being completely sober is the best thing for me, and I am striving towards this goal as best as I can.

Let's make this thread a positive example of what fornits can be. If you want to debate AA please do it in one of the many threads that exist discussing that topic. This isn't about debating AA in this thread. Think of this thread as an online AA meeting. Would you walk into an ongoing AA meeting and begin to debate them, or ridicule them for seeking help? Well if you wouldn't do it in real life, please refrain from doing so in this thread, it will be greatly appreciated.

We can even make online images of fornits chapter sobriety chips, for people who choose to receive them. I think this can be the start of a very positive thing here on fornits. Please, please, please, leave this thread for the people who choose to utilize it and keep the debates in the other threads. This thread is for people to post their personal stories, and experiences about their difficulties with addiction and substance abuse, and things like this. Thank you so much.

Ok, let's get this meeting started. Let's support each other in our shared goal of sobriety and it will be easier than facing this challenge on our own.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Post your positive program experiences
« on: August 09, 2010, 01:55:09 PM »
This forum is filled with people posting their negative program experiences. It's great this forum is open to post whatever they want, so I started a thread here where you can go ahead and post your positive program experiences. Most people who have read my posts know that I had a positive program experience for the most part. I faced some difficulties and challenges, but I don't consider it abusive and I honestly accredit the program with saving my life, when all the other traditional treatment options failed to do so.

This thread is dedicated to creating a positive atmosphere, sort of like a safe haven from all the bitterness and negative energy that can be so pervasive on this forum. Please only post your positive experiences in this thread, and people who don't agree, please don't use this thread to tell people they don't know what happened to them.  I am putting my trust in the people of fornits to respect this, and I hope that this thread can have an adult and mature conversation about some of the positive things that happened in treatment. Even if you had a horrible experience in programs, perhaps there was at least 1 positive example of someone being nice to you. Think about it and realize that posting a positive part of treatment does not negate any negative experiences, and that this forum is filled with the negative. I think it's time we start to talk about the positive a little bit.

Thanks. Please feel free to start, I will post my own soon enough.

Open Free for All / Suicide
« on: August 09, 2010, 01:50:14 PM »
I thought I'd start a topic on a different topic than the usual discussions about programs. This topic is about suicide.

do you think suicide is a justifiable option for people to take? Or do you think we have a right to be angry with people who choose to do this? I have known people who have done it and I don't know what to think really. It doesn't really matter to get mad at them because they are gone. But at the same time I think that people should be able to do with their lives that they want. But I think people who kill themselves have a mental illness, that is temporary and that if it can be addressed and get them through the crisis most people will not feel that way 100% of the time.

I wonder sometimes what percentage of people kill themselves on a whim, like after a breakup or job loss and see a bridge and jump off it, compared to people who think about it for a long time and buy a gun, wait out the waiting period, and then still go ahead and do it. I also wonder if people purposely make suicide look like an accident, like a car accident or something so the people who know them don't realize they did it on purpose. This seems like a risky option because what if you didn't die and ended up in a wheelchair or something, I would be worried about that when crashing my car on purpose or something like that. I'm sure there are other ways to make it look like an accident I'm not aware of though.

I think suicide is a big problem in our society, more people die of suicide than do of terrorism but there isn't much money spent on preventing it. This is a problem that strikes people of all types, from rich to poor, from girls to boys, and all races and populations on the world. I think it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. So let's have a discussion about it. Have you ever thought about suicide? Why did you feel that way? What made you decide to not go through with it? What do you think is the best way to help people who are at risk or talking about suicide?

The Troubled Teen Industry / ...
« on: August 07, 2010, 09:44:45 AM »

Open Free for All / Do you like apples?
« on: August 06, 2010, 02:48:10 PM »
How you like them apples?

The Troubled Teen Industry / ...
« on: August 06, 2010, 02:29:05 PM »

Aspen Education Group / ...
« on: August 06, 2010, 02:24:47 PM »

The Troubled Teen Industry / .
« on: August 05, 2010, 02:03:20 PM »

Open Free for All / If You Really Knew Me
« on: August 05, 2010, 01:21:41 PM »
I was watching MTV and this show called "If you Really Knew Me" came on, and it's really interesting. It is about something called "challenge day" where counselors go into high schools and help the kids overcome their issues. It is done with a large group, and when I saw this it reminded me of being in a program therapy group, its very similar actually. So here is an LGAT that is becoming very popular, and helping a lot of high school kids. It's great because not all kids can go to programs and experience the amazing feeling of this experience, but now they can. The fact it's on MTV lets the audience participate and get an idea of what an LGAT session really is like. You should watch it, it's a great show and especially people who weren't in program but think they are evil, this gives you a taste of what it's really like in group therapy.

The Troubled Teen Industry / Dear Mom & Dad
« on: August 03, 2010, 05:18:29 PM »
Dear Mom and Dad,

This is your troubled teen, 10 years into the future. I know you are questioning whether you should send me to a treatment program or not. I know it's a difficult decision and you don't know what to do. I am here to tell you that you already made the right decision. You got me the help I desperately needed and you saved my life. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

You know that I am having some problems. But you don't know how bad. You think I might be slipping in school, but it's much worse than that. You think that I might have tried some soft drugs, but it's much worse than that. You think I drink at parties, but it's worse than that . You don't know how much trouble I am going through now, and that secretly inside I am begging for help. I am scared though, scared to ask for help because I dug myself so deep I don't know what to do. If I ask for help I will get in trouble and have to stop my behavior, but I am an addict now and can't willingly choose to end this on my own.

It's up to you, my loving parents. If you make the right decision right now my life will be saved, and 10 years from now my life will be wonderful and I will be harvesting the fruit of your fateful decision, a decision you are about to make. If you make the wrong decision I will follow a path of self destruction that only ends in incarceration or my premature death. If I could I would come to you and ask, I would beg for the help that I know I desperately need. But I can't ask you for help, Mom and Dad, the choice is left to you. It's time for you to make your decision. Please make the right decision, Mom and Dad, because my existence is dependent on you choosing to help me and not ignore the signs you know are there. I love you so much Mom & Dad, and I am so sorry for what I put you through. Thank you for saving my life, I will always be eternally grateful for your sacrifice and forethought.

Your teenage Child

Open Free for All / Addicts helping addicts
« on: July 30, 2010, 03:41:25 PM »
I think AA is a good organization that has helped countless people. I think one of the main reasons why it works so well is the fact that addicts helping other addicts is an effective way of dealing with the problem. This is not to say traditional drug addiction treatment centers aren't good as well, I believe they are also effective. But most people cannot afford long term inpatient drug treatment unless you have good health insurance, and so that leaves a lot of people without that option. There are two different experiences in these two different environments however and the debate which one is more effective is an interesting discussion to have.

Professional treatment in drug rehab centers are educated and well qualified to take care of others. They have a good understanding of addiction and help people tremendously. My main issue with these type of facilities is that they can rely to heavily on medication and psychiatry to help people solve their problems, I think there are more effective ways of dealing with problems than covering it up with a medication. Or trading illegal drug addiction for a pharmaceutical prescribed drug addiction, I don't see the benefit in that. Ideally an addict will be able to live their life without any type of chemical dependency, legal or illegal.

Which brings me back to AA. I believe addicts helping other addicts is a very effective strategy, because they have gone through it before and have a good understanding. AA especially is useful because it is so widespread and access is easy. There are meetings going on all the time, and meetings are just the starting point. People almost always will approach you during your first meeting and offer to help. As much as some people on fornits hate AA, I don't see them offering the kind of help that many people in an AA meeting would. They want to genuinely help other people, because they know what it's like to be living in the world of addiction themselves. That is their only motivation, not money or fame, just to help others who have the same problem they have. I find that inspiring and one of my favorite aspects of AA/NA.

Too often on fornits I see people claiming AA is not necessary. If people are addicted to drugs, they should just stop, or so goes the "common sense" advice on fornits. Well unfortunately for many people it is not that easy. From an outside perspective, dealing with somebody with addiction issues can be frustrating because it doesn't make a lot of sense. If drugs and alcohol are destroying your life, then why don't you just stop? Some assume because they have the ability to stop cold turkey, that others should be able to as well. Those who seek help, are weak. This is a common perception of addiction and AA I find when reading this forum. Welcome to the early 20th century, before drug treatment or AA ever existed. I don't think ignorance is a good enough excuse to take the treatment industry back into the dark ages, where people were told to solve the problem themselves, and suffer in shameful silence.

Think about it for a second. If you couldn't make it through a single day without using drugs or alcohol, and couldn't find a way to stop and you finally acknowledge you really need some help to regain your life. Where would you rather come for advice and help. Would you rather come post on fornits and ask for help? Or would you go into an AA/NA meeting and ask for help? Lets be honest, in which situation are you more likely to receive real and effective help?

Fornits offers a lot of negative views, as in what not to do. But offers little alternatives on what you should do. I have yet to see anyone offer up an idea that can seriously replace the amount of work and help that AA/NA accomplish, around the world. Hating on an organization that is so successful and helped so many people is one thing, but offering no alternative just scares people away from AA based on mistruths and tells them deal with it on your own. Not only is this bad advice, but it is dangerous advice. The fact is some people do need help sometimes, and AA is one of the few organizations that offer it up without asking for anything in return. That is very rare in this world, and they should be applauded not condemned.

Open Free for All / What does fornits accomplish?
« on: July 29, 2010, 11:02:01 PM »
In light of fornits being user funded by donations, I am curious what is it that compels people to keep this site up and running by donating money to it. 70 dollars isn't chump change in today's economy, so it must mean a lot to them.

It got me thinking, what has fornits accomplished in the last month? This is how much hosting time a typical donation covers.

Things Fornits Accomplished in the last 30 Days

1. Humiliate a teenage girl and her family, and ensuring she is sent to treatment through reckless advice and behavior and offering no real alternatives for the parents
2. Allow Ursus a healthy outlet for his severe case of OCD
3. Let "survivors" re-live their group therapy days, for program nosalgia
4. Give Dysfunction Junction a meaning in life

That's about all I can come up with.

Please feel free to come up with your own answers for the question, What exactly does fornits accomplish in 30 days?

The Troubled Teen Industry / Fornits group think
« on: July 27, 2010, 02:21:22 PM »
When I first started reading fornits it took some time to get used to the workings and flow of the conversation here. At first its confusing, people seem to be fighting with each other and you have no idea why, or what about. But eventually I started to figure it out and then finally decided to jump in the fray and offer up my own opinions on discussion taking place. I'm sure many people have a similar experience when they first arrive here.

There was a reason why I was reluctant to start posting and was just a lurker for a long time. This is what I commonly refer to as Fornits Group Think. Fornits is good at hashing out ideas and discussing many different viewpoints. But rather than leave the discussion with these varying conclusions and ideas, some posters have a strong urge as it would seem, to end the conversation with a group consensus. I think this is a reason why threads go on for hundreds of pages, and the same argument gets had over and over again. Now to give credit to those who do this, as I probably have as well at times, is sometimes you can be effective in changing people's minds.

For instance when a "survivor" starts posting here but claiming they did fine in a treatment program, the "mind changer" posters are quick to get involved. The first stage these mind changer posters use is guilt. Dysfunction demonstrated this during our spat on why I choose not to call myself by the term "survivor". I choose not to call myself this, because it just makes me uncomfortable, on an instinctual level I must know its wrong because I just can't do it, sort of like trying to say "I love you" to someone you really don't, the words just feel wrong. And so it is with me and the politically correct fornits term. This seems to bother dysfunction so much that he was accusing me of disparaging rape victims. He had a good reason and it's the first step these mind-changers use, which is guilt.

It goes something like this. I went through treatment and did great, and post the name of the program, and when I was there. I say I did fine, never abused and graduated grateful. Then the mind-changers guilt posts will start. The first step is to inform you that your opinions dangerous to the credibility of those who were abused, and basically suggest that you just plain shut up, you know, so as not to invalidate, harm, discredit or question the testimonies of the "real victims". I've seen this happen a lot of times on fornits. I reject this theory that people who do well should remain silent, so those who had negative experiences  can remain credible. OF course fornits claims this is an open forum welcoming all opinions, and perhaps on a structural level this is true, anyone can post here. But the gang of extremists which reside here make sure that this is never possible, because guilt is only the first step.

The second step employed by the mind-changers is humiliation and manipulation. Since you were naive enough to provide them information when you first arrived, they will scour your posts for any sign of manipulatable anecdotes. They'll quote something you wrote about happened in treatment and explain, you don't get it, don't you see? This is abuse, you are just ignorant of what abuse really means. Then they explain the watered down fornits definition of the word, which includes any kid who ever went to any treatment center. Oh, you say. Well, I'm new and I don't want to diminish the claims of these heart wrenching stories I keep hearing, I better also refer to myself as a "survivor", say I "was abused", and just shut up about the good things I remember about the program. Over time, the truth they had within them starts to fade and the mythology of fornits takes over, and it becomes their truth.

But there are some strong willed people out there who say, you know what, fuck it. I earned my rights to my opinions, I will say what I want and I know the truth and don't need to hide it to be politically correct and fit in with "the gang" on fornits. This is when the anger and threats begin, which can come in many forms. They'll investigate tirelessly to find out who you really are, in real life, and use that information to pressure you into silence. They'll post angry threats about how they wish you bodily harm, or that you were dead, in an attempt to scare you. "Better not mess with these people, they sound really crazy!" seems to be the image they wish to portray sometimes.

This sounds like what? Kind of like a cult, right? When a group of people come up with a mythology that no individual comes to believe on their own, outside the influence of this group, what is that called? That is called group think.

 I should point out that, this is not just limited to "survivors", but it goes for almost every poster here, including parents of "survivors" like Whooter and that 15 year old girl's parents. Fornits has morphed from a discussion into a cult suffering from a bad case of group think, and it "brainwashes" people into this cult more than I've ever seen anyone brainwashed in treatment, thereby destroying the ability for people to post their truths and explain the details of treatment experiences. Instead the gang enforces a lowest common denominator echo chamber, where if you question your imposed politically correct title, somehow this equates with disparaging rape survivors of all things. Who brings rape into a conversation where it isn't being discussed? Someone with a desperate need to bring it down to the base emotional level, with a heavy dose of guilt. More cult bullshit from the so called educated among us.

Of course, as amusing as it is for people who never went to treatment to explain to those who have experienced it, what treatment programs are really like, this type of discussion produces nothing. Instead of these people listening and learning about other people's experiences in treatment, they hold onto their mythology with a tight grip and use its delusions to dismiss what is a more accurate truth than their own. I find this particularly interesting, when these same people claim others are brainwashed, etc, they are literally drowning in irony. Extremist don't wish to have a honest discussion, they simply want to disseminate their mythology to others who are gullible enough to listen,  and bully those who question it into silence. If that's what you consider a "survivor community" then you people really are lost.

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