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Messages - BuzzKill

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46
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 23, 2011, 11:08:43 PM »
Quote from: "Torn"
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
she can do just fine once she decides to, even if she throws away several years between 15 and 25.
Yeah, I suppose you are right, *if* she decides to.  I am worried she'll get pregnant, or get comfortable and dependent on someone who is not good for her, and then never get back on track.  

Never is a very long time. It might take her two years or ten, but from what you describe, I don't think 'never' is likely.  Even if she does have a child  - even if she does have an un-pleasant lay-a-bout for a boyfriend - her life can turn out remarkably settled and respectable enough.


Quote
She has not surrounded herself with people who will give her a good example to follow.

Honestly - I do understand. You would find it hard to believe the kind of crowd I've had knocking at my door looking for my kids. Many of them have been quite memorable. There was the vampire - a couple of those actually. The guy who used a pair of crutches even tho his limbs were fine. Another who wore a heavy winter coat in mid-summer; Yet another who fancied himself the king of our town - Others who were just really dim, or really mean, or really rude. Kids called Delicious and Cheezy and Machine. And yet - somehow things have turned out good enough. I have said to friends that I can't do a lot of bragging, but I do have a lot of interesting stories to tell :) And truth be told - lately I can even brag a little.  

Quote
This is just not something I've ever had to deal with in my family.  I was the worst of my siblings but even I got it together in time for college.  When I got shipped off to boarding school there was just as much drugs and drinking but the difference in the environment was *all* of these kids were planning to go to college, and nearly all of them did.  I can see now that these "therapeutic" schools won't have that kind of effect.

No - these "schools" do not have the effect of a legitimate boarding school - they have more the effect of a POW camp - and I'm not thinking of one run by Kernel Klink when I say that. She may be an older student when she gets into Uni but she'll almost certainly go - simply b/c it is true enough that an apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Be it nature or nurture - we carry a lot of our heritage with us whether we like it or not. Some struggle all their lives to brake away from troubled family histories and others who stray from solid foundations eventually fall back into the values and responsible nature they grew up with - as long as they aren't pushed so far away they can not return.

Quote
Maybe we should just move to a different state. :-p

Well, if it is an option, maybe you should. But even this wouldn't be a cure. Remarkable how these kids find each other.  One thing I didn't mention yet- speaking of the kids - you don't need to support the negatives or validate wrong thinking - but it can help if you aren't actually hostile. I didn't want some of those clowns around - but I did on occasion feed them because they were hungry. With only a couple of exceptions, I tried to treat them with some respect  - I tried to keep a sense of humor - but I was always clear what I would not tolerate - and I think this made it a little easier for the kids to trust me enough to help when I really needed it - and for me to be able to tolerate them when I needed to.

47
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 23, 2011, 09:37:02 AM »
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
Niles doesn't post here anymore, he doesn't have time to deal with the bullshit.

Yes, I had noticed him missing for some time now. If you "talk" to him tell him his old nemesis sends her love ;-)

48
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 22, 2011, 09:31:26 PM »
Quote from: "quanat"
Quote from: "Inculcated"
I It becomes a soap box from which someone who has only the desire to present falsehoods to further their agenda can expound. Remember “Nigel”?


what is "nigel"?

You mean Niles? Where is Niles anyway?

Torn - I've been busy but I want to comment on your daughters education - you mentioned she was running out of time. I am to tired to write much right now - but even if she drops out next year she has plenty of time - really. This is said with complete understanding of the panic you feel - and the ability to now look back at it - and reassure you she can do just fine once she decides to, even if she throws away several years between 15 and 25. You may need to adjust your expectations and be happy for her as long as she is happy - for now remember to minimize harm with out enabling - a fine line to walk but with practice you can walk it.

49
Tacitus' Realm / Re: Deep Throat has a new name -
« on: April 21, 2011, 02:56:41 AM »
Wondering - could the impending scandal implied by the DC insider be about this:
http://http://www.facebook.com/notes/michelle-malkin/obamas-crooked-campaign-cash-o-matic-machine/10150158665665677
or maybe this?
http://http://amzn.com/1936488299
or maybe this?
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy4Dads2oow
pary2 http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2diozRwPHXs&feature=related
which relates to this:
http://http://newsflavor.com/politics/us-politics/the-ulsterman-report-sex-and-murder-in-the-land-of-obama/

50
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 21, 2011, 02:33:42 AM »
frosty - if your teen age son is 5'9" and down to 100 pounds while testing + for cocaine and other drugs, you can and probably should get him in a hospital.  Call your department of mental health and tell them you need a parent advocate to help you negotiate the court system and you need advise on getting your son admitted to a hospital for substance abuse that has reached life threatening levels. Take tons of notes and make sure they know your taking notes during each contact by phone or in person.  This will help you keep straight who said what and also make them aware there is a record of the conversation. A tape recording is a good idea if you can manage it. This could be valuable if they stonewall you. If your telling the truth your son needs medical care and you may need the court system to help you get it, so get busy. Going the "easy" route by paying for one of these private for profit placements would be a terrible mistake. A boy as frail as your son may now be could be easily killed in the standard synanon style program.

I know I probably seem like Maia Szalavitz's publisher - but you might want to get your son a copy of Recovery Options.
http://http://www.amazon.com/Recovery-Options-Complete-Joseph-Volpicelli/dp/047134575X

51
Tacitus' Realm / Re: IM proud of Obama
« on: April 21, 2011, 01:21:40 AM »
Thank you - now I have something to put in my pipe and smoke.

52
Tacitus' Realm / Re: GOP accuses Obama of pushing up gas prices
« on: April 20, 2011, 09:15:00 PM »
Quote from: "heretik"
Buzzkill, where is all this coming from??
What does O'Bama and the Dems hope to accomplish by your ascertains??


Where did I say anything about "the Dems"? That said, if you look at the fringe, where the big O comes from, you'll see easily enough why I say what I say.

Had some time - can't sleep - editing to add:
You can do a little Googling - heres a head start:

Obama+Odinga
Sutton
Al-Mansour
Ayers
Wright
Farrakahn
Alinsky
Cloward and Piven
Frank Marshal Davis

small sample or results

On energy
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdi4onAQBWQ

(Ep. 1: The Audacity)
http://http://www.youtube.com/user/illuminatitv#p/u/169/zUdjhKbImwE

Obama for Odinga
http://http://youtu.be/c6eVVVKFHu0
http://http://youtu.be/Lh10-w351MI
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpvLV3d1Eq4
http://http://www.youtube.com/user/illuminatitv#p/u/140/a0zwvyPDQgw
http://http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=77508
and Kenya:
http://http://youtu.be/xx3-MGHFXkc

William Ayers
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRg9il_V328
http://http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=110784

http://http://www.breitbart.tv/author-tells-hannity-bill-ayers-helped-write-obamas-dreams-from-my-father/

Frank Marshal Davis
http://http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/exclusive-obama-sex-perv-scandal
http://http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/275493.php
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Marshall_Davis

Khalid Al-Mansour, Percy Sutton and the Sheik
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIVO8MZYXo8

53
Tacitus' Realm / Re: IM proud of Obama
« on: April 20, 2011, 05:25:33 PM »
Yeah - it was directed at me - but why? I'm not as partisan as you seem to think. And why poke me and then hit me over the head with the A-bomb? When have I ever said this was a good idea?  I can explain what the historians give us as an explanation - this doesn't mean I accept it at face value as a full and complete explanation.  We can talk about Iraq if you want and I can defend Dubya - - But this doesn't make me his groupie.

And once again - Obama wasn't running against George.

54
Tacitus' Realm / Re: GOP accuses Obama of pushing up gas prices
« on: April 20, 2011, 05:16:17 PM »
It is no secret that this administration desires and intends to make energy prohibitively expensive in this nation; just as it is clear they desire and intend to devastate the strength of our currency.  They have an agenda and it isn't to see America and American's prosper.

55
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 20, 2011, 04:55:52 PM »
Quote from: "Torn"
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?
I figured that out about Utah, and I'm guessing Arizona is also on the bad list.  Which states do a good job?

CA might be a good example. That said, you'll find this industry is absent in the states that regulate facilities. There was at least one such program in CA - Bell Academy - but it didn't last long; plus it was, as I recall, for those very close to "graduating"; so far less overtly abusive than the typical example; and the serious abuse takes place on the first three levels. Even so, they had the students working on the renovations needed in the dilapidated buildings - and the rumor persisted that this involved the removing asbestos insulation. I wish I could say this is an outrageous accusation - but it is all to believable.

I just thought of something else you may want to take the time to watch: Whose Watching the Kids. It is a PBS documentary about the lack of regulations is Montana and something of an expose' on one prominent program in that state.

http://http://watch.montanapbs.org/video/1430387622/

56
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 20, 2011, 03:49:32 PM »
Torn, Your entirely within your rights to remain anonymous - this is a large part of Fornits charm. But here is the thing - there are some aroun' these parts that always assume any parent posting is a troll. It is wrong headed and counter-productive to automatically pile on them, calling for their banishment.  Being a parent myself I have long tried to explain the answer to stopping the abuse lies largely with helping the parents understand the realities, which can't be done if you chase them off or ban them.  All that said, the forum does have a troll problem. Using sock puppets to talk to each other validating each other is rude and dishonest  - altho with a nod and wink to certain character actors on the forums - they can be amusing if occasionally profane.  Your correct that IP addresses can be compared. I thought perhaps they had been  - but if not - I'm still willing to believe your a real parent with a real daughter perilously close to a terrible mistake.  If I have helped your family avoid this I am glad. Please read the book I mentioned. (Help at any Cost) It explains a great deal of the history and risks - the hows and whys of the problem - Plus lots of excellent advice about how to find legitimate help for ligament problems.  

There is a reason why these programs seem clustered in certain states - Utah being among them. This is b/c regulating, licensing and legislating for health and safety is left up to the states. Some do a good job, some not so good and others not at all. Guess which ones these programs set shop up in?

57
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 20, 2011, 11:59:19 AM »
I'll say this - if the OP is in fact a who sock pukeit it kinda pisses me off. I resent taking the time to respond to such a one as that.  If they are a "real" person it is wrong to accuse them but if you have access to behind the curtain knowledge and know this is a farce they should be banned.

58
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 19, 2011, 06:03:00 PM »
In my experience, when speaking of the troubled teen industry, those claiming the highest success rates are also the biggest liars and worst abusers.  If they claim anything like 80 or 90 or 97 or 98% success, hang up the phone and block your email.

59
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 19, 2011, 04:13:19 PM »
Repentant Program parent here - I was in exactly your shoes at one time. I made the decision your considering. Please believe me - Thomas C has given you sound advice which shows real insight into the probable outcome.  I am not sure what alternative to suggest but I do know that the outdoor bootcamps are terribly abusive and dangerous; and the Faux "schools" which focus on behavior modification are as well. They do much more harm than good.

One thing I wish we had done instead is take the money we spent on "the program" and gone on a nice long vacation together. I wish we had gone to see Scotland, Ireland, England, Wales, Oz and Israel on that money instead. It wouldn't have been a cure, but it would have greatly improved communication and there would be memories to value instead of all this anger and guilt. This may not be piratical for you but it is something to think about.

Speaking of a cure - there is none but time.  A good therapist can be very helpful. If she won't go, then you go with out her. They can help you learn how to defuse emotional storms instead of fueling them and may have good ideas how to better encourage more positive behavior. They may be able to help the younger child learn coping skills to minimize the emotional trauma. Possibly they can help you understand the turmoil in your daughter's head so you can better understand why she does the things she does, which may help you feel less angry and more sympathetic. The key is a Good therapist. If they don't seem to be helping after several sessions find a new one.

As for being responsible for her legal issues - shop-lifting and truancy and so on - maybe you can file a beyond control petition with your state court system. They may cal it something else, but you'd go before a judge, explain the problem, show proof of your efforts to control things (therapist business cards and schools records for example) and they will assign her a social worker who may be helpful in getting her to co-operate better.  The worst case senerio,  she'd end up in a state operated program similar to what your shopping for - but the thing here is - they would have some oversight and accountability for any outrageous harm done to her while there - and listen to me now - this is NOT the case with the private run for profit teen help industry.  Also, they would have actual, trained teachers and psychologist on staff. This is also not the case with the private, for profit "school".  I am sure the process varies from state to state, and the resources available as well - but this is an option you should strongly consider. That said - avoid anything called :"drug court".  http://http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/podcast/430.mp3

I mentioned time being the cure. I have honestly found this to be true. It's hard to believe at the point your at that there is any hope for the kid at all but it is remarkable how things can change once they reach a certain age - they truly do mature out of it.  Focus on damage control -  again a good family therapist can help even if she won't go.  And please don't think I have no idea what your going through. Until she literally runs away with a circus - or off with the "rainbow people" - I got you beat.

I need to get off here now - but one last comment: Read Maia Szalavitz's book Help at any Cost, how the trouble teen industry cons parents and hurts teens. It is excellent and she provides good, sound helpful advice as well as eye opening information about the industry. http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/

60
Let's talk about the weather... / Re: Israel and the weather -
« on: April 18, 2011, 06:33:02 PM »
was something funny?

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