Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Well, Antigen, at least you replied, and for that I thank you.
You suggest that my opinion of stack constitutes 'hate speech'. I consider that response to be a cheap-jack answer. Free speech implies, indeed necessitates, responsible speech. If the speaker speaks only malice, a forum,this one for example, quickly descends into babble, as this one has. We who have been 'guests'
should know well that'crazy-talk,stupid-talk' is a form of battery, and not to be tolerated.
The word 'obscene' derives from the Greek "that which should not be seen", and, like Stewart Potter said, it may be hard to define , but I know it when I see it.
What a quaint, archaic notion that one is, eh? Those dang Greeks, Huh? Yet were their lives more refined, less brutal than ours? What has human history taught us? After 25'000 or so years have we not learned any thing about normative behavior? (behavior includes speech, it's a complex behavior, but behavior nonetheless.) Get my point?
I called stack a " nasty little deviant". Well, a thing is what it is, and not something else. Many people who masquerade as 'mentally ill', are not so at all, but merely evil. It's malice, I think, that decides. ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::

This used to be a 'forum" It's purpose was to help the many who've been subjects of an awful experiment, an experiment which continues.
Now, to illustrate my point of view, I will tell a story,  sad but true.
A few years ago, I met a man, young man, who'd been a cuban soldier. He was drafted at 16, by 18 he was in Angola. (travelers hint: in Angola, do NOT go off paved surface.. land-mines) By the age of twenty, he was so disillusioned and embittered that he sold arms to the rebels. At 22, he was in a Cuban jail, doing life. Through Byzantine machinations, Dept. of State got him out. Then they dumped him. Due to health problems  acquired in that Cuban jail, he cannot enlist in U.S. forces. These days he and his wife live often in their van. Both he and his wife have been through re-education, so i showed them this site. they found benefit. Their english limited, and my spanish even more so, so translation was sometimes a real excercise. ( sorta like mime, but with a lot of yelling)
Maybe things are looking up, though, if anyone needs an excellent woodcarver, a decent classical guitarist. who has both armored and sniper/ranger experience, a guy who has a horrible past, and limited english, a fair shade-tree mechanic, also in spite of it all, a decent guy, I know just where to find him.

This site no longer serves any useful purpose. The 'signal-to-noise ratio' has gotten too high.  ::unhappy::  ::unhappy::

actually folks, it's sort of fascinating, in a morbid, car-crash sort of way, to watch this person unravel. it's also tragic. i wonder at the pathology. is this guy channeling ted koscinski, or manson? maybe jeffrey dahlmer? better check the refridgerator!
As to racism.. well that's an old idea, and a worn accusation, and a tiresome one.See, stack you manly man you, if you were as educated as you claim, you might have learned what racism actually is. Racism is an unfounded belief( in western culture) based on biblical Mis'interpretation.( that's mis-interpretation.. means they didn't get it.. sorta like you) anyhow, that notion was rejected by the council of nicea, some time back.
Now, racism is a common phenomena, and as to eastern cultures, it's really far more prevalent. i suppose if you were at all familiar with japanese culture you would know that. If it's racism ya want, hey take alook at the rig-veda,( the Rig Veda is a foundational Hindu epic , a saga)it's all there. the plain truth is that america( you know the United states of,.. that great big ol Satan on your globe at home) is and always has been the most racially tolerant society on earth. if you had read history and been capable of understanding it that would be evident to you as well. But IT Ain't. Poor You!
It amazes me that bad ideas are ever new, every few decades they get dug up and trotted out, though they smell as bad as ever, and the one who trot them out always, always act as if they got some sorta brand new spiritual truth. TIRESOME TIRESOME TIRESOME! hey, he's here, gotta go throw the tennis ball ::unhappy::

this is to inculcated and ursus and greg and ginger. I just took a look at the ad for the seed, and it troubled me some. for one thing, by the time that ad had run barker& co., had already run afoul of some heavy players.This too i know. law enforcement assistance administration was more or less a 'slush fund 'on a grand scale to buy allegiances. much of their money went to weird third world 'commmandantes' Remember Nicaragua? I do. Check the international association of chiefs of police. What an assortment of thuggery! each and every one cries out for a bullet . Greg, you say that a lawsuit is pointless ( fruitless?) well, i'm not schooled in law, or much of anything else, but i can tell you it takes a mighty big dog to eat a lard tin full of biscuits. I believe thats what happened here. i know, have worked with task force officers from so. fl who are to this day spooky as hell about that time. the criminality here runs far and wide, and i'd just as soon it stopped. it's a mess, a real mess. it's an idealogical, philosophical, physical, spiritual, legal, moral and historic mess. and we have paid for it. over and over we have paid for it. Ah hell, i know a very fine man, army sniper, 14 confirmed mission. he's a backwoods country boy, gentle in all his ways. he too, has "paid for it" let us seek justice, and put  an end to this, the madness that seeks to control others. ( oh yeah, for the record, i said historic and not historical.. there's a difference.. and i meant what i said)
and to the guest with the birds.. my doves are irrascible and they fuss so that you'd think they was Rabbis!  but i got hawk and osprey and crested, and little owl, and cats and wood rats, and cardinal and house wren, and thrasher, and a finch i can't yet identify,, and i guess you know by now i like critters. and i don't like people who don't.
ginger this is specifically to you. you have said that there is ( i paraphrase) no cackleling fiend, that it's just good intentions gone awry. well hon, i gotta disagree. i don't believe that it goes this far, for this long, hurts so many people so deeply,AND MAKES SO MUCH MONEY, absent fiends. it's a hard thing, but i think it's true. ::unhappy::

stack, i'm about sick of you you are not tough enough, or funny enough, or kind or wise enough to survive in my world for very long. It would only take three and a half minutes for you boy. I'm a free man, maybe i'll look you up, see how you react.

to guest with the peace bird,( do you know how cranky and irrascible dove really are? ) and antigen.
the reason that the 'program' was so violent (physically and emotionally) is to allow them to attain total control. if we were not terrified for ourselves, we were terrified for our families and friends. we were kept hungry and tired and scared and disgusted and in pain until we lost the ability for critical thinking, the ability to test reality for ourselves. ( i had smoked marijuana, and there were kids in that program whom IKNEW WHO HAD NOT , and yet they were up there
braggging about their exploits! Whew, talk about the clear light of insanity! the idea was to create a group of 'true believers who would follow without question group dictates, who would be UNABLE to dissent.
A very reputable man i spoke with in the tampa area told me that i specifically was targeted because they wanted access to Viet-nam vets with drug problems.
The son of a prominent family in the indian river area was targeted because of the father's wealth and political influence. (blackmail, plain and simple)
 to antigen: very very odd, that gleason and yacht connection, eh? I believe that a trail exists, as much as folks don't want it to. Gleason was also widely rumored to have an attraction to very young girls.. what i know about pedophiles is that they know each other,AND THEY NETWORK. for people who are wired that way, any group of vulnerable young people would present lots of opportunity. this to ursus and inculcated. I'm usually uncomfortable with "conspiracy" simply because 'three may keep a secret if two are dead", and yet, and yet I was interviewed by a psychiatrist named Lester Kaiser in no. miami , prior to the seed admission. The interview lasted 5 minutes, if that. had I known more when i was younger, had i had greater resources, i'd have had a slam-dunk malpractice, and i'm sure i'm not the only one. what about family physicians, teachers etc.? As a kind of "trustee" at open meetings i was told to keep watch for notebooks, cameras, recorders and if someone identified as doctor, reporter, parole/probation i was to let staff know. immediately. Really? in open meeting! to this day, i'm not sure where all this goes, but i'd damn sure like to find out. and, in an earlier post i said that i don't believe that the obvious money adds up.. i think there's more there.  also, an aside on the subject of psychiatry remember that P.T.S.D hadn't even been named as a syndrome yet, but it was well known that experiences such as ours could and did cause lasting damage  the key to sucessful out comes is early recogntion and treatment      how many of us got that?     ::unhappy:: it' sok, he's not aiming at the dove

to inculted, my apologies, i suppose that post wasn't very clear. I 'll try to improve it. And, I guess I'm really hurt to have been critiqued so harshly by a man such as stack. In my defense, how could i possibly have the literary skill and stature that stack does? Who among us can be measured against such a giant?
I had hoped that, being such a manly man, a real man such as stack might show mercy to such as i. No matter, perhaps the time for the righteous manly wrath of stack has come. Still, a man who is so clearly familiar with the ways of combat ( and the costs ? stack?) will sweep the moral horizons, as spake the prophets of old. I only pray he's as merciful as he is wise ( and i hear he's quite a dancer!) for i am not man enough to stand before such a titan.
having dispensed with that, inculcated here goes:
1) My point about miami being a mob town, and an espionage town is this. Miami is unique among cities ( I like to think so, anyway) for it's tolerance for odd goings on. where better for a 3rd rate stooge like barker to flourish?  It's hard to make sense of, but consider, Miami is a strange town, those were bizarre times, and the seed is... BIZARRE)
2) The veterans administration Hospital in the former Biltmore Hotel, was at the time one of the premier veteran's hospitals in the nation. There were men being treated there who had been no korean/chi-com "subjects". The univ. of Miami, rosenstiel  school of medicine boasted of it's school of psychiatry.
( for a better understanding of mind control and it's aftermath, i'll refer you to Wm. Seargent, english physician, published about 1950," the physiology of brainwashing and conversion" , and donald Mcclean, canadian, published about 1970.. Seargent worked at putting men back together, mcclean worked at taking them apart.) Psychiatrists drink and tell stories together after work, just like any body else.. The Miami psychiatric community knew what mind control was, what it could do. Why didn't these medical folk speak out earlier, and more forcefully?.. and if the army was truly providing some funding, where better to monitor results?
3) The seed, and barker, early on, established a widespread pattern of serious felony offense.. the list goes on and on. In short order they had, to my knowledge pissed off metro-dade police, fl state parole and probation,dade youth services, fla dept. of law enforcement( different name then) and Gov. Reuben Askew ( include the catholics and the mormons in this mess) with such powerful enemies, who can afford friends?
4) Follow the money. Does it seem practical that barker and co. could operate so publically, for so long, and attain so much (financially) on a mere 250.00
per kid? throw in donations, and all the rest, even given insurance fraud.. enough? i don't believe so.
Inculcated.. I hope this clarifies my train of thought, mad as it might seem. let me know iff'n it don't.
p.S. maybe stack won't be mad at me if i say i like to dress up at night and pretend i'm Wolf Blitzer.. do you think? or is that just sick?
Sorry, gotta go..the little guy's gotta go out ::unhappy::