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Messages - jnloar

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / getting your facts straight
« on: April 14, 2004, 04:12:00 AM »
My stomach has turned reading through this thread and some of the others here.  I can sense the frustration and anger from those of us subjected to Straight and all its bullshit - I feel it deep inside my gut and heart as well.  What I think though is that unlike many on these boards, I WAS one like 'still doing fine' or whatever the screen name is.  I bought the program hook, line and sinker and for a few years after you could never have convinced me the place was anything less than a blessing to all who entered its doors.  I have been very open and honest on the boards that I was fully into the program and worked there and promoted it.  I do not know why some are more susceptable to its brainwashing than others.  I was young when I went in - barely 15 and had only experimented with alcohol and never touched a drug.  I was hungry for acceptance though and extremely vulnerable as many of you know because I had been sexually assaulted a few months prior which led me into depression and self destructive behavior.  I strongly suspect that those more vulnerable with VERY poor self esteem, not that all of us did not battle with that to some degree, but I know after my rape I was FILLED with self loathing - seem to fall much more into all the brain washing shit used at these programs.  When I got out I was filled with the same rhetoric that this person talks with and had you put a gun to my head, I would have taken a bullet before critizing the place "that had saved me from dying or being in jail"  how many times have we heard that??  I know it stirs up anger to read someone defending places like Straight - it makes me want to vomit but I truly believe that we need to meet these people with empathy and understanding.  I remember when I started to realize that maybe the life I was leading was built on nothing but lies how terrified I was.  I had built everything around the illness of that place and had no idea what I would do because I had not really been a member of true society for so long even though I appeared to function well in it.  I still found my haven in the 'program world.'  When I started working with a cult specialist and eventually could not live in the lie anymore I absolutely freaked out....having to realize just how badly I had been treated, how much I had been lied to and how I bought into it and basically sold my soul over to that place to survive first phase and then continued to perpetuate the abuse was horrid.  I was ashamed of myself, felt incredibly stupid, embarrassed and horrified that I had worked through the phases and staff continuing the cycles of abuse and brainwashing that had been used on me.  I truly think by being empathetic and remembering how strongly influenced some of us were - I know I was and am sure many of you remember people who were total 'straightlings' we can help to lead others to the truth behind these places.  It took years for most of us to realize the toll that place took on us - there is an interesting thread on the Straight forum right now 'the 15 year itch' about how many people seem to start seeking information about Straight, SAFE, Kids, KHK wherever they were a decade or more later.  I think it takes a lot of us that long to start to put 2 and 2 together and wonder if perhaps some of the current day issues we have - emotional vomiting, trust issues, relationship struggles, depression, PTSS issues whatever it may be - could be linked to the fact that we had our teenage years ripped away from us and never got to learn many of those vital lessons because we were locked away and then many of us stayed in the program world after for some years.  I 100% believe that KHK is a Straight replica.  I went to their website and about puked - it reeks of Straight but I think rather than trying to cram down these people throats that they were brainwashed it would be more productive to relate how we finally realized the truth about what happened to us.  I doubt it will make much immediate difference but if even a seed of thought is planted to get some of these survivors to wonder at some point, perhaps they will be able to finally see the truth and this one can be held accountable for its tactics as well.  I hope I don't sound too "programy' or wishy washy, I just think too much anger was heaped on all of us in these programs that use the 'break em to build em back up' (which KHK does) and trying to convince someone they were brainwashed and screwed with years ago by some place they still think is so fab does nothing more than raise their defenses and close their minds even more. That does not serve our purpose of getting these destructive places shut down once and for all.
Jennifer[ This Message was edited by: jnloar on 2004-04-14 01:15 ][ This Message was edited by: jnloar on 2004-04-14 01:18 ]

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / the correct facts
« on: March 28, 2004, 05:52:00 AM »
reread the post before you start spewing your rage - my dad did not threaten to sue anybody - only to take protective measures if I felt or he felt I was in danger which I did not.  We don't need Timmy or anyone else's money - remember according to you we are rich....he may not be great at the internet but he and my mom managed to raise four out of four who are all doing pretty well in life, despite the fact you think one is satan's spawn.  Rip into me all you want but you have never met my father so try to keep your judgements at least to the one you kinda remember.  I only wish every person whose parents had put them in Straight would realize how horrid it was and come around and support, stand up for and back their kids the way my parents do for me.  That has nothing to do with money - just a lot of luck and dedication.

sorry I pissed you off by offering to familiarize you with Dallas and being honest enough to tell you that I doubted we moved in the same crowd but that I would be happy to hang with you and show you around were you to move here.  I am not real sure what you expected me to do but I don't like being in crowds with people who are vastly different than I am and did not get the impression that you would be either.  The reply you sent me in no way said you were offended by my offer and that was not my intention.  Wherever you end up I hope you do well and find happiness in your life.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / the correct facts
« on: March 27, 2004, 04:51:00 AM »
If you reread my dad's post - he did not threaten to sue you for anything.  He clearly said you could say whatever you wanted about me, he knew I was sure enough about myself to not let that affect me.  He simply stated that if you were to continue to threaten me that he would take proper legal measures to protect me which basically means a protective order.  You do speak quite a bit of revenge and although I tried to tell him I did not feel endangered, he does not know you and even though he took it much too seriously, he was reacting like a parent.   We have no need or desire to take anything from you and I would hope that this could be put to bed now.  You have made it more than clear how you regard me and what I am doing.  I stated earlier and continue to feel you are more than entitled to that.  I commend you for helping the people you saw being hurt in the nursing home and the jail.  Why you think that my writing a book about Straight and exposing those who started and continued to let it run is so different is something I will not claim to understand but I believe that it goes back to our fundamentally different beliefs about Straight.  I am glad that you were still able to see that Straight was a sick place while you were there - I was not and I have openly admitted that here and offered apologies as best I could to those I hurt.  I am not proud, I have stated I am embarrassed and regret that I was so taken in by the rhetoric and brainwashing of Straight - I have admitted that I played a hand in other children being hurt by being on staff.  I have tried not to excuse myself or make excuses but quite frankly, I am tired of your attacks.  Mind you, I was one like Greg P.  I was put in at 14 and had never seen a drug much less done one.  I had experimented with alcohol but no more than 10 times.  That you cannot see that everyone of us used whatever survival skills we may have had is not my problem.  I wish I had the fight in me then that I do today but I did not and I complied.  You seem to forget that I had a time on first phase that I did not comply but a few days in the time out room with Lacy and other staff in there screaming at me broke me.  I have said over and over again that I am not proud I broke and complied and perpetuated Straight.  I have admitted that I was beyond wrong and am doing today what I believe I can to right those wrongs.  I have put myself on this forum not only to heal myself but for people who I hurt to address me and communicate with me about that so that they can hopefully find some closure by doing that.  You seem to assume that I am writing some book that is going to paint me in some wonderful light - you have no real idea of what I am writing but it will be fairly difficult to look too much like a daisy since I was on staff.  My belief and what I hope many will understand is how destructive and horrid cult programs are; how they suck children and their families in and perform mental and pyschological rape on children leaving them as tyrants who then go on to help keep the cult going.  Most people in our world have no idea that this is happening and I am sorry you have such a distorted view of what I am doing.  I cannot and have no need to change that.  I have not denied I caused people pain in Straight and I have not tried to defend myself from those people - I did hurt them in the past and want to help them how I can.  Your attacks are present day and based on someone who you even admitted you did not know very well 15 years ago - I feel every right to defend myself against that.  I apologized for not getting with you all and my poor follow-up.  I am sorry that is not adequate for you but I really don't think it warrants the attacks you have decided to send my way.  Had you been scheduled to stay with me or were depending on me for something pressing I could see the anger even with an inpending death in my family but it was lunch and I am sorry you cannot get that he died two days later and quite honestly my phone and checking messages were not the top thing on my mind.  I said I should have been in touch sooner and I am still sorry that it took me longer than it should have.  As I said, we expected him to live a few more months and when I got the call Friday he had had such a horrible morning and they were not sure he would make it through the day, I honestly forgot just about everything.  I had a date that weekend I stood up and did not call, not on purpose, but because I was with my family and not really thinking about anything or else than them.  He understood once I got in touch with him and we rescheduled for a few weeks ago.  Quite honestly, I had no idea I needed to anticipate you being so pissed.  I thought we would get together if you came to Dallas again, which I assummed happened since Valorie's mom lives here.
I know the saying about assuming and am sorry I am the one who looks like the ass here.  I would hope that since you are so sure of how little anything I have to offer matters that we can put this to rest and both get on with our lives.  I do continue to wish you well and that you are met with success in your endeavors.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
« on: March 27, 2004, 03:05:00 AM »
also Timmy, I never was a Sr. staff member and did not come back as a Sr. either. I left as a Jr and never went past that.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
« on: March 27, 2004, 02:55:00 AM »
Thank you for your post.  I will PM you about some things I know and see if we have the same thoughts and info.  You have been at this much longer than I and I am eager to find out how I can be of use in exposing the people behind the program.  Despite some of the richer things said here, I actually hope to help ALL of us hurt by Straight.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / the correct facts
« on: March 27, 2004, 02:43:00 AM »
This is Jennifer.  I so appreciate your concern about what my dad said in his post.  As a survivior, I know the sensitivity about divuldging information.  I would be so upset with my dad had I not made the choice many years ago to go public with my abuse.  I have posted on the Straight Testimony site about talking about both my molestation and rape in girls rap and then being ripped in group for lying about it and sat on the guys side for lying and the trauma that caused me.  I have also posted threads here about it so that is why my dad was able to know that would not upset me.  I speak publicly to rape survivor groups and child abuse orginazations.  I was very lucky to have therapists who helped me understand I was not at fault and I try to convey that to others by speaking openly about it.

I have openly posted apologies on this site to the people I hurt in Straight and have had open dialogue with most of them and been able to listen, understand and support their feelings in regards to me and the program.  I would never have found any healing about Straight had I not been able to vent and support others doing the same.  I am a little embarrassed my dad went to such lenghts to even post here.  I tried to explain to him I was not scared by any of the threats Timmy posted.  I think he was more upset about the lies, especially that he and my mom had supported Straight after I was there and that I was only writing a book for profit.  my parents were not in support of my choice to write about Straight - they were just fine with me being freelance, writing basically bs pieces for different things.  They had known for a long time I wanted to write about Straight but had tremendous fear that it would be too consuming and painful.  That it would cause too much upheaval of the work I had done to get past the place.  I explained that it did not feel like a choice, it was something that I HAD to do, not the other way around.  They are now in support, my dad is actually going to contribute about how they were sucked in and address your questions about what took so long and how they have dealt with their guilt after finding out what Straight did to all of us.  Had I not worked personally with a cult deprogrammer to undue much of the bullshit put in my brain by Straight I would not understand either.  They played on every dire emotion a parent had about the most important thing in most parents life, their child.  As my dad said, I had always been an overachiever, straight A student, cheerleader, etc...until I was raped.  That happened in December and in the following March I attempted suicide.  I would not tell, could not bring myself to tell.  I had been a virgin when it happened and I just did not see any hope past it.  They took me to shrinks and I certainly was not going to tell some stranger.  They told my parents my 'symptoms' smacked of drug use.  At first my parents thought they were nuts but I just got worse and more depressed.  Someone in our church had put their kid in Straight and convinced my parents to go meet with some executives who sold them on the "14 day evaluation" idea.  I do believe my parents, they said hearing all the stories from parents in parents group about how their kids had done these 180's and were such great kids again, the whole family has to change made them think they had found the right answer.  By the time, I started complying and made it to 2nd phase I was as convinced as they were and quite honestly, being home with my family was more than enough to push me over the edge past any doubts I may have had.  I asked my dad to let me do this myself, that I so appreciated him taking up for me but that I did not want him trying to protect me by getting overly involved in this.  He and my mom have done so much for me and this is something that as an adult I want to do myself.  Ginger posted something to me about gathering information and sharing what she knows after all her research about current day programs and those involved which I plan to take her up on.  I trust her and know that she will direct me in the correct way in regards to that.  I know that my parents and other family members will support them in their fight, whether it be financially, by sharing their experience or what ever they deem appropriate.

Thanks again for your concern.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
« on: March 27, 2004, 12:22:00 AM »
I am not sure what Opera v Springer means in your reply but in response to my trying to kill myself post no point did I try to kill myself while Straight was still open.  I am not sure what your memory is of that but since I am the one who would have had to attempt it - I know I would remember it.  If you are talking about the attempt we talked about on the phone, that was at age 25 while I was in the midst of deprogramming and realizations of how fucked up not only Straight was, but I was as well.  Straight had been closed for at least 3 years by then.  
And I won't disagree with you about the party.  I think we have different definitions but whatever.  It had nothing to do with Jason giving it - I am not into the music and as I told you, I would never tell people not to do drugs - I think that is everyone's choice.  I choose not to and I am not comfortable being around while they are being used.  I think of that as my choice - if it is judgmental then I will own that.  As I said before, I wish you well.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
« on: March 26, 2004, 05:48:00 AM »
I am certainly sorry that you feel such anger towards me that I was not able to follow through with our plans and evidently did not handle it the way you wanted me to.  I did exactly what I needed to for my family and when one is on the verge of dying, he does come before lunch or drinks.  I know that I did leave Val a message, I don't remember exactly when I did, obviously it was not quick enough for you. I have no control over that.  Let's be real - you were interested in me possibly buying some of the things you have and you are not happy I decided not to pursue that.  

I am not sure where you found out your 'facts' about me - they are so ludicrious I have no desire or need to even address them.  I have never denied that I was a horrid staff member, as I recall, you were on staff as well.  We may have had different styles but each and every staff member contributed in their own way to the pain and brainwashing clients suffered.  

I am happy for you to follow your attorney's advice.  If you have a different memory of Straight or want to tell your version, you are certainly entitled to do that.  I have no need to rip off Wes's site - I respect him and his fight.  I have years of journals I am drawing from along with the therapists and deprogrammer I worked with and all their documentation of my experience.  I have offered to include other's recollections if they want them included. I have no plans to name names other than in the beginning in stating the facts of how and when Straight was formed.  Obviously, my publisher has attorney's who have already advised me that the risks of lawsuits is much too great were I to do that.  Other than holding the founders accountable, I have no need to write some expose that would cause anyone who has already suffered at the hands of Straight any more pain.  I do have a fundamentally different point of view than you do - I firmly and strongly believe that every person put in Straight - regardless of how long they were there - were victims of the abusive, brainwashing tactics it operated on.

If you feel the need to continue to attack and post, not only vicious, but untrue things about me feel free.  You speak from a past that is over 15 years old. I am sorry you cannot understand that I had a family member that, yes, we knew was sick but thought had a few more months; he took a horrid turn the Friday you were here and died within the week.  I needed to be with my family and I will not apologize for that.  I do wish you well in your endeavors and in life.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Getting over it.
« on: March 23, 2004, 02:33:00 AM »
I completely agree with Maude's post.  Straight took our teenage years from us and many after that as we fought the demons that place implanted in our brains and hearts.  I found healing here because it provided me a place to express my regret, shame and guilt from buying into the whole program and being on staff.  I had spent years processing through the rage I had at Straight and the staff members from my program - the remainder of the years of therapy dealt with the guilt and shame I felt from being on staff and had no outlet to voice that regret.  I found it here and have made no bones about the fact that many deserve to be angry with me and that I am fine with those people venting at me if they need to.  I can only do that because I know I have healed many of the wounds from that place.  I have plenty of scars that will always remind of Straight but I can handle the anger and pain from others because I know I am not the person Straight created and have gone to extraordinary lenghts to heal and find a new life.  Straight ripped too many years of my life away from me and I refuse to give it anymore by staying rageful and angry at the things done to me or by me.  I know there are many people here who post that are still seething with anger and rage and you all have every right to those emotions - I hope for you though, that at some point, you decide to let your life move forward and find healing.  It is truly possible to know you hate the place and all it did to everyone there and still be successful in life, love and anything else you choose.  It is a gift that only you can ultimately give yourself and I can promise you that nothing else you recieve in your life will ever compare to it.  Ackowledge and be proud that somehow you are still alive and regardless of how you lead life post-Straight, you can change it and make it better.  I will not lie - it is hard and sometimes it sucks ass but it is so worth it.  The place stole too much from us - don't give it the rest of your life.  We all deserve so much more.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Timmy , Val, Chris and Todd
« on: March 21, 2004, 11:55:00 PM »
Timmy and Valerie,
Hey you two - I am sorry we were not able to connect when you guys were here in Dallas.  My uncle who I had told Val about took a serious turn for the worse on that Friday night and life seems to have been one crazed something right after another since then - one reason I have not been current here for about 6 weeks.  I cannot find the paper I wrote both of your numbers down.  Email them to me and the next time you are up when can grab a drink.  Timmy, I have decided not to use Straight things like COC's, MI's - thre are copyrights and other things I do not want to have to mess with.  I am going to be interviewing people and using quotes - if you are intersted in that - I would love to do that.  Anyone who wants to tell part of their story in Straight, the PTSS we have all suffered and how you have managed to survive, feel free to email me and tell me you are interested.  I will not be to that portion of my book for, realistically, 9-18 months but will certianly keep your name in my files.  [email protected] is my email.  

Chris and Todd,
I don't know if you all went through this whole thread but if you did not, please know that I have enormous regret for what a raging bitch I was in Straight and on staff.  I know I rode both of you all and I apologize for that.  I can tell you that I have been through years of therapy and deprogramming trying to resolve the guilt and shame I carry for inflicting the same pain I endured on others.  I have signed a contract to write a book about Straight and how horridly abusive and corrosive it was to my and everyone else's lives and souls that had to endure that place.  I truly hope that you all have been met with success, love and happiness in your lives today.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / dwelling in the past
« on: February 16, 2004, 03:42:00 AM »
I always find it amazing when I read of people who do not have extreme negative recollections of their time in Straight, but do agree with Scott as far as him being as welcome here as any other survivor.  He did say it was difficult and I believe it is important to respect what people remember.  What I found offensive about the post and I think it is what elicited some of the stronger responses was that the ending comments were fairly sarcastic and even condescending.  I for one, had a horrid time in Straight, Dallas but I respect that 7stepper did not apparently see or experience what I did.  After plenty of therapy I am happy to say that Straight does not haunt me as it used to but I did feel, 7 stepper, that you were ridiculing and putting down those of us who did suffer severe abuse at the hands of Straight and did have to put great effort into healing the effects of the brainwashing, abuse and wounds inflicted by that place.  I look at Fornits as a place to offer hope, support and friendship to fellow survivors.  Sometimes I laugh when I read things, sometimes I cry my eyes out and sometimes I am indifferent but I am always bonded to these people becuase we did experience a very strange place together.  I believe that as someone who was lucky enough to have access to therapy and deprogramming that I have a responsibility to reach out to those who have not and desperately need to heal from Straight.  I would hope - 7 stepper - that you might share how you did move on but in a constructive and not condescending way.  I also think that the age and reasons we were placed there has a lot to do with attitudes and post Straight issues.  I was barely 15 and even today at 31 have seen pot twice in my life and only touched it once.  I had no business being in a place like Straight - I was severely depressed and suicidal after being raped but Straight convinced my parents on intake I was lying and just admit me for 14 day eval and they would get the truth out of me.  My parents just wanted to be able to sleep not worrying if I was going to try to kill myself so they left me.  22 months later I came out warped beyond belief and it took years of therapy and deprogramming for me to even have any remote idea of who or what I truly was about.  I hope that all survivors will find something here and that you, 7 stepper,  will share how you were able to get on with your life, just maybe with a bit more empathy for those of us who were more profoundly impacted.

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / HAPPY BIRTHDAY MORLI (Sunday)
« on: February 01, 2004, 03:03:00 AM »
there are not enough days in the year to bask in that greatness....happy day sweet friend....
thanks for all your help this week - it has been exhausting for all of us but hopefully this coming week will bring us more answers rather than red tape.  You put your mind at ease about it for now and enjoy your day and celebrate all that you are and the lives you touch....

I am not a supporter of violence and do not believe that violence begets violence so I think that anonymous needs to pick his words a bit better, but give me a f*cking break...ex.  Every person here, besides you, knows that is a way of expressing the pent up rage all survivors have, and highly unlikely it would be acted on even though 99% of us have certainly fantasized about it.  As far as your post goes, please leave us alone.  You and I have gone at it on the SAFE sight and I thought come to terms that we agreed to disagree about abuse in treatment in that I was in Straight and not SAFE so I could not be certain about what happened there and vice-versa.
Until you have sat in a blue chair for months and years on end, endured not only mental but physical and for some people, sexual, abuse don't pass judgment on those of us who did.  How prolific of you to give us the reaction statement.  We were teenagers, most of us barely teenagers and those who have not been blessed enough to have therapy to deal with Straight ARE reacting to what happened there, at about whatever mental age we were when we got out.  As someone who is 'a counselor' you should certainly understand the idea behind mental process and how is is stunted and slowed dramatically when someone is abused.  Most survivors have suffered for years thinking we were the only ones who felt crazy, disabled, delusional, suicidal and trying to figure out who we are as people and how to recapture the souls they ripped from us as teens.  To find these boards is a gift that has and can begin the healing for many after years of torment. These boards are many times the very first exposure people have to understanding how many people feel just like they do, and can begin the reaching out to others who are further down the road and can aid them in the process of healing so they CAN get on with life and learn how to not react so strongly to the messages drilled into our heads from that place.  The last thing any of them need, and I only speak for myself here, but would feel safe saying many others feel the same, is to read some post from someone who worked at a spin-off of our own personal hell pontificating on how we basically just need to get over it and stop reacting to the years or abuse and torment we endured.  Not to mention that you insist that Straight is a dead issue when, not only is it carried on, just under  different names BUT will never be dead to those who suffered at it's hand.  Correct, there are no more buildings operating as Straight,Inc programs BUT if you looked into DFAF, you would find that it was Straight Foundation, until I believe 3 years ago when it simply changed its name.  Straight Foundation funded Straight, Inc and many of its board members and staff were directly involved in Straight.  I have no idea why you feel any need to be on a forum that has nothing to do with anything you were a part of.  I understand this forum is open and you are free to be here and post whatever you want but please quit being surprised when people are offended and pissed off that you choose to post here.  As you said, it is how you react, are you not as capable of reacting with an empathetic reply to someone who has been through absolute hell than some in your face, smart ass one?  I know that would make it easier for me and probably others to think you might have our, as in all of us who survived Straight's evil, best interest in mind.  Jennifer

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / Survivor weekly check in thread
« on: January 27, 2004, 11:45:00 AM »
Sweet Brad,
I am sorry you are having such an icky day.  Maybe you do need to sleep, rest.  You know, as we have talked about, my struggles with mania and many times the best I can do is get rest.  Thinking too much wears me out and leads me down roads I have no business on.  Karma, my dear, you have had yours, and your road is full of days that will be filled things you cannot see right now.  Just believe me on that right now.  This is a friend who will believe in you when you do not believe in yourself.  Please try to rest.  Hang in there sweet friend.

[ This Message was edited by: jnloar on 2004-01-27 10:51 ]

Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / hello old friend
« on: January 26, 2004, 05:12:00 AM »
I know how overwhelming it can be to read all this.  Please know how glad I am to know you are alive.  Please private message me when you feel able to.  I am pulling for you sweet friend.

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