Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I have a question here? wouldnt it be tricky to compare the sucess rate of a wilderness therapy programme with a prison. One has kids who have all done something criminal. The other has some kids who  may have been sent there through thhe criminal system and many kids who are sent there by their families for a variety of reasons. In the event that the Wilderness therapy had a higher on paper sucess rate, surely the fact that some kids had not broken the law in the first place (or been caught) and therefore are unlikely to again would have some bearing on the stats.
Are the non criminal kids automatically eliminated from the study?

I think that the great shame of it all is that the idea of Wilderness camps or outward bound programmes for older kids and teenagers is a good one in theory. It could do great things for kids and not just troubled kids.

When i was a recent uni grad (2000) I did the year off to do the back pack thing and worked in one of your American summer camps. Aside from the odd bout of home sickness the kids seemed to have a great time & be forever engaged in some kind of fun activity. They were too busy to get in trouble & the staff were mostly enthusiastic & idealistic 20 somethings who liked kids or wanted to see the world or both. The approach was about giving them a good time not punishment & it was a tradition that I always thought had a positive impact on kids.

With strict regulation & state govts to took duty of care laws seriously, & a culture which is not about being punitive but encouraging teenagers to try new things and push themselves this could be a really positive industry. What is so tragic is that most of the websites advertising these programmes (even the ones that look quite professional and safe) seem to talk about changing the way kids behave and think and in most cases this seems to involve the idea that kids are bad an so deserve to be stripped of all that they enjoy and then when they conform they can "earn" these rights back. Why emphasise a culture of treating kids as if they are irredeemable criminals when they are just young and bored and trying to figure out who they are and what they want out of life.

Why has no one just made Wilderness programmes about giving teenagers and their parents a break from each other & the stresses that are trying everybodies patience & encouraging the kids to have some fun & learn some new skills?

your a sick sick man TSW :rofl:  :lol:

Ok apologies. i did not mean to offend. of course i take this issue seriously. I was more commenting generally not specifically to my own situation. Really I did not mean to belittle anyones experience of these places

Hi Again
My niece arrives Friday. Yay. I have spent most of my time this last week trying to find out as much about the whole industry as possible. I have a few questions for those familiar with the vernacular of the industry so that I am armed with good info when i see my brother
1. What is Hazing-a cheryl sudweeks was charged with it according to the isaccorp site
2. Why is it in utah (it seems this is the home of a lot of facilites) there is a debate about whether a place is therapudic or a normal boarding school? Is there a different minimum standard of care?
3. What exactly is the American definition of a therapist. Are you a psycologist or a psychiatrist or just a social worker?
4. A lot of the kids on the fornits sites describe being "taken down" for various infringements. Is this some sort of beating?
5. It seems in some states religious schools are not made to hold the same regualtions as other schools. Do they have their own governing body.
In Australia Catholic schools have a separate governing body but they still have to follow the same minimum stnadards of curriculum and duty of care as all other schools. It seems in the US it is different? does anyone know how?
Cheers

I can certainly see how with older kids who are troubled the "manipulation" story would go down because im sure for a lot of these kids it is a nightmare version of the boy who cried wolf. I know the marketing people for MR seem to be strongly pushing the line to my brother & particularly his wife that a lot of younger  kids exaggerate because they are homesick. So I am beginning to see how they convince parents how this can happen before the kid sets foot in the door of the place. Once thing that struck me about the tranquility bay kids was that the boys particularly all looked so thin and pale. It was reminicent of the pictures of ww2 concentration camp victims. The girls in the pictures usually look quite plump and healthy though. Are they a little kinder to the girls physically? From the sound of the post I have read on the sites you guys have provided they sure arent emotionally.

One thing that staggers me is the fact that they really seem to push honesty & trust with the kids ( I read the newsletters on the MR site)but many of the kids seem to think they are only going for a short time or seem to get sent by escort. It is such a shocking example to set. I know that my niece seemed to think that this is going to be like a summer camp with sports and outdoor activities with a minor emphasis on academics. i note that she loves anything physical and hates schoolwork. I am concerned that in the event she goes, her response will be to get angry at the outrageous lies she has been told and try to rebel, which will obviously keep her trapped there for longer. Obviously this is why i am spending the time & money to do what it takes to keep her out, but in the worse case scenario what would your advice be. Should I give her a more honest picture? It hurts me to think that her last monents with loved ones would be traumatic but by the same token she at least has the chance to go in  and be co operative with a goal of getting out.

This story is not old news to me. I am just discovering this industry & fighting to keep someone i love out of it. Without discovering its dark history I would not be informed. My condolences for your loss mrs sutton. I read about your daughter and the Bacon boy & it broke my heart. This kind of this should be remembered always because it educuates.
The internet is capable of making this info available to the international community. This scandal should not be forgotten
The holocaust is old news but we remember that. :cry:

Thank you for your post. Which WWASP school do you have experience of? I understand your concerns that there are many different schools possibly with different cultures and not being a citizen of the US I cant judge or comment. I absolutely agree that if my brother were to go through with this i would want to see the school and I would imagine that i could talk him into this if i were in the US @ the time.
I would also be happier if kids could write to anyone they wanted to. Could they @ your kids school?. I got the impression from the schools own website that phone calls were discouraged until the kid got to a certain point & it specifcally said that parents should not call before this point as it undermined the goals of the programme. The website also implied that kids could only write to parents and no nobody else. I assumed that if calls were so strongly frowned upon so would visits be. (particularly if you wanted to take the kid off campus) Was your experience of a WWASP school different?
My biggest worry is that after being pointed to other sites I have read some shocking things. The Isaccorp site mentioned some alarming things. The local media states & the links I have been provided with show that the principal was charged with sexual abuse. Having looked @ the schools website which was what lead me to do further research, I was surprised @ the lack of contact between students and parents and puzzled as to why children were not allowed to be sent treats or toys except on their birthday. Even if your child has severe behavioural issues it seems that this approach is harsh given that this is a school taking kids as young as 7 so I came looking to this site & others for genuine answers. It was then that I became more than worried and alarmed. I have read the newsletter that seems to cover all wwasp schools (provided on the majestic ranch website) and there seem to be some happy customers. Again though the emphasis seems to be on punishing kids till they see the light.
I dont think that this is what it takes to overcome a learning difficulty or to build a relationship with a stepparent. I have also become frightened by further research. I would be happy to hear your point of view & experiences although the alarming evidence against these schools is becoming overwhelming.