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Messages - Thom

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181
The Seed Discussion Forum / edmund muskie
« on: February 15, 2005, 10:54:00 AM »
What I remember about the Muskie thing was that he was accused of making reference to a comment he had made during his '68 VP bid w/Humphrey while visiting The Seed during the next campain. [The ironic thing was that Muskie's outburst was provoked by one of Nixon's dirty tricks?a letter in the Union Leader alleging he called French Canadians "Canucks"?a derogatory term to some?plus an article saying his wife drank, smoked, and cursed in an "unladylike" way.] (taken from http://www.goodbyemag.com/mar/muskie.htm)
in '72, while running for Pres., this stuff was dragged up again, and Muskie got emotional. ::mecry:: This was viewed as (or presented by his detractors as) a sign of weakness, and not very 'Presidential' sort of like Howard Dean last year saying "yipee!"

When the story broke, Art flew up to Maine to defend Muskie against the attacks by the press. There was another emotional scene  :cry2:  which pretty much ended his bid as he was viewed as unstable. Just goes to show how screwed up our society has become when it is viewed as weakness when a person, especially a man, emotes in public. It's like we want non-feeling robots filling our leadership spots.

_________________
later, Thom

I think I know where I got off track! I thought the 11th step said 'Sought through beer and medication to remove our conscious contact w/ God...I plead lysdexia!
Who wants to say why we sing jingle bells?[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-15 08:08 ]


182
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: February 13, 2005, 01:10:00 AM »
let me get this Straight....it was the Seed that begat Straight, which begat LIFE. Helen Peterman was a Seed parent, then on staff at Straight before she formed LIFE with George Ross. Just exactly how did Peterman and Ross form LIFE? Did the Seed come Straight from Ross, and were their spouses aware of the relationship? If Ross' Seed begat Straight's LIFE, how then did Art's charisma and AA/CEDU/etc. spawn the original Seed's LIFE Straight from Ross' Seed which was a product of Art's charismatic LIFE?  I just hope Peterman and Ross dealt Straight with their formation of Life in their moral inventories (which, by the way, pre-date The Seed by either approx. 1900 years (Bible), or around 40 years(AA), depending on how you believe, believe it or not. Not Peterman, Ross or Art, but the art of moral inventory taking, that is) And that's the Straight stuff.
 ::argue::

_________________
later, Thom

I think I know where I got off track! I thought the 11th step said 'Sought through beer and medication to remove our conscious contact w/ God...I plead lysdexia!
Who wants to say why we sing jingle bells?[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-12 22:16 ]


183
The Seed Discussion Forum / successfull seed graduates
« on: February 12, 2005, 07:19:00 PM »
I sense the emoticons don't work in 'signatures' :???: [ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-12 18:38, but he wasn't happy with it still, so ][ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-12 18:40 ]

184
The Seed Discussion Forum / successfull seed graduates
« on: February 12, 2005, 07:17:00 PM »
::burger::  (why the burger?...I don't know, ...I hate to see it just sitting there, going to waste..oh great now I'm hungry again!.....are you going to eat it?)

_________________
later, Thom

I think I know where I got off track! I thought the 11th step said 'Sought through beer and medication to remove our conscious contact w/ God...I plead lysdexia![ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-12 16:26 ]


185
The Seed Discussion Forum / successfull seed graduates
« on: February 12, 2005, 05:26:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-12 11:06:00, Antigen wrote:


I'm still grateful to good old Don Taws. What a sweet old man he was. When Mom sent me into his office to get chastised for not formally joining the church, he told me it was alright; that he would never want anybody to swear an oath that they didn't believe and that he'd always be there if I wanted to talk. And I found out later that he'd been trying to explain to Mom for awhile that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to force me to attend services and open meetings if I didn't want to.

Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson, 1787


"

And now you know....the rest....of the story.  ::boohoo:: Thanks Ging, for filling in the blanks.


I agree with Don Taws. A person has to make their own spiritual choices. I've never forced my kids to go to church, but I did encourage and model it. Today they attend with us sometimes. I'm a happy camper.

Shannon and I went to see Don (Pastor/Bible Teacher in High School) about 5 years ago. He lives a bit south of Asheville, NC. I tracked him down because I wanted to tell him I was grateful for the fine example of Godly living he modeled when he was my teacher. I wanted him to know that his energy spent trying to get through to me when I was in school was not wasted, and that the 'seeds' he had planted had at last sprouted.

He and his wife had just returned from the funeral of their Daughter, Kiki. (bee sting), he had a cast on his broken ankle, and he was battling cancer. He said 'God is good' a few times that weekend, and meant it. He jumped up Sunday morning and taught his regular Sunday School class. I needed to see what a genuine Christian looks like after a long term journey, and with trials. His enthusiasm for The Lord was even stronger than it had been 25 years earlier! I am glad Shannon went with me to meet them as well.

I strongly disagree, however, with T. Jefferson. I believe a newspaper needs an editor, proof readers and other such government in order to stay on task. ::cheers::  to remove our conscious contact with God. I plead lysdexia! [ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-12 14:49 ]


186
The Seed Discussion Forum / successfull seed graduates
« on: February 12, 2005, 12:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-14 19:29:00, GregFL wrote:

"Talk to ginger about how long her family was "involved" because I really don't have the anser and shouldn't speak for her."


Well, I can't speak for Greg or Ginger, but as her brother, I can address the length of family involvement question:

Family involvement started, I believe, in early '71 with our 2 older brothers and myself. My younger, and Ginger's older sister followed. Oldest brother left pretty quick, next stayed a bit longer, not sure of sister's start/end times. I think I was the last one to attend, probably in '75. All of us were Andrews Ave. and or SR 84

187
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: February 08, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
Yea, just like that, see what I mean Stripe?

188
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: February 08, 2005, 04:08:00 PM »
Hey Stripe,
  I was wondering if anyone saw that (seedation). I think I made it up, but someone may have used it somewhere. Although I don't feel wordy to be called a 'writer', I do get enjoyment out of wordcoinagization. Thanks for noticing.
  My experience was a bit different. I never really felt like an addict until in my 30's when I wanted to stop a behavior, and could not. I never really identified with the 'drug addicts' at the Seed, except that I did beleive my casual drug use could conceivably escalate to a higher level. I had never even been exposed to coke, speed, heroin, and stuff like that up to that time. Watching the way some of the staff acted, kind of brain damaged, put a good scare into me for a while, and probably helped to keep my drug use reined in. So, I quess what I was thinking when I used the word 'seedation' was that my experience at the Seed slowed me down abit in the area of drug use.
   As far as feeling like I was broken or damaged, I didn't and don't. That's just a theory Ginger seems to be fixated on for the last 20 years or so. I do wish she would move on from it. It makes engaging in any normal dialog nearly impossible. It always gets around to 'Thom, there is nothing wrong with you, stop beating yourself up' stuff. I'm almost 50 now, and don't really see much value in re-hashing stuff that happened 30 years ago.
   I just popped in last week to wish Ginger a happy birthday, since last time I checked, she had my email address blocked, and I don't know a phone number or address, and then Greg, 'the monster at the side of the group' jumps in wanting to stir up discussions we had a couple years ago...I really don't have time for this these days. I pretty much live in the 'now' (although now and then in the then, but I won't deal with that now)
Take care, and thanks for picking up on 'my' word  :wave: have a good life![ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-08 13:10 ][ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-02-08 13:25 ]

189
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: February 07, 2005, 12:39:00 AM »
A note to those looking around the internet for recovery support ? fair warning:

You will not generally find it in these pages. If you have recently begun your journey to recovery, and it is important to you, this can be a dangerous place to peruse as many who post here have had, or perceive that they have had bad experiences with recovery.   Lots of bitterness here. This site is devoted to gathering historical data, usually of a negative nature, concerning certain drug and alcohol treatment and recovery programs and their practices. I suggest you stay close to the official recovery sites instead.

OK, Greg,
  Thank you so much for the warm welcome, as always. Here are your responses, with your questions/comments in quotation marks:

 ?By the way Thom, how long have you been sober and working your steps THIS TIME around?

Go ahead, complete this sentence for us curious...?

Would that ?us? be yourself and some of your other personalities?

Hello, my name is Thom and I have been sober for 13 + years
 
(Like you give a crap, but I?ll play along for fun)


?For a product you are so grateful for, the steps and stepcraft, it sure seems to fail you over and over. Een by your own admission you went 18 years after the seed before you went to AA, and then you thank the Seed for being there??

Not sure where you get the ?over and over? from. I was ?straight? for a few years in the ?70?s, ?crooked? for about 18 years, am ?sober? for about 13 years now and very contented.
I don?t know what Een means?is that German?  I believe here you are twisting the part where I wrote: ?I'm grateful the recovery system was still around when that time came for me.? Not ?thank the Seed for being there? as you misquoted. I was referring to the program (steps) of recovery practiced by various 12 step fellowships.
More simply put, ?I can?t, He can, I think I?ll let him?

?And again, I see a picture developing of a non addicted individual, submitted into involuntary addiction treatment, emerging with a addiction problem and an identity and ego built around the times he is sober. You must really beat the shit out of yourself when you are not.?

Time to change your picture developing chemicals. I entered the Seed program, and later, AA?. VOLUNTARILY? I have stated, and you have acknowledged this in the past.

"Unreal, as I read it."

It seems to become unreal as you read it. Reading comprehension difficulties would be my guess, but I am not trained in this area, and am not qualified to diagnose.


"You are only powerless if you believe you are"
 
(Try that theory next time you feel diarrhea coming on?mind over fecal matter! :eek:)

Now, here is my quote for the day:

?If God had intended for me to continually kick myself in the ass, it seems reasonable He would have installed at least one of my feet backwards so that my efforts would have more effect?

And an oldie but goodie from ?the raps?: ?Talk about yourself?

190
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: February 06, 2005, 03:16:00 PM »
Thanks Dr. Warbis...how much do I owe you for this session?

Probably right about Joni, but there were other issues. Neither she nor #2 cared much for sex after marriage...well, not with me, anyway. They say the third time is a charm. My current spousal unit loves loving me. I don't have to flog myself any longer!

I agree with you that my major pre-seed need was maturity. I never bought into that stuff about being 'a piece of shit' when I was a 'druggie' Here?s the catch: neither of our parents was equipped to lead me there. Some concepts I became Aware of (there's that scary word) during my seedation helped to point me toward that maturity.

You'll have to break down that grateful...shame...bonfire...indignant...manna thingy for me. You lost me in that drama.

As for running that small town together, if you mean Pompano, I would likely have left there regardless. It's too damn hot down there! Like Dad said, that climate was designed for alligators and mosquitoes...not people. Do you remember the story of Dr. Mudd? He was the guy who helped John Wilkes Booth with his broken leg after he iced Abe. The good Dr. was sentenced to life in FL for his treason. Dry Tortugas, I think. I didn't even commit a crime, but served 20 years in that hell hole (FL).    

Well, gotta go, my oldcomer just told me I can't talk to you.

See ya, your prozac-zombie Brother, Thom

"Hypocrites was the reason for the treason"

191
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Final Days
« on: February 06, 2005, 01:38:00 AM »
Thanks for all the info on the final days of The Seed. I was a '70's member, and kind of drifted away after I decided beer was not a drug..for me...I was 'different' Well, I got real different after that.

My abuse of alcohol later was a major contributor to 2 failed marriages, the second of which cost me much access to my kids,(now 21 and 18) and lots of child support  which finally ended last month (free at last, free at last!):) Anyway, I remember Art saying to the group that if The Seed managed to keep just one kid from messing up her/his life with drugs, it was all worth it.

I realize some of you posting here are not 'addict' types, but I am. When I came up for air again about 18 years later, pretty messed up, thinking suicide and all that, I found myself in a mainstream 12 step program, and there were those darned steps on the wall again! The ones I used to amuse myself with as a kid. 'Sought through beer and medication to remove a conscious contact with God, as we understood Him' was one example. Well, the joke was on me. I had worked my version of that step to the best of my ability. The point I'm making here is that the 'program' dogma/brainwashing or whatever I had been exposed to as a kid came in real handy when I did develop a problem. I was engaged in behaviors which I knew were killing me, and I needed help getting stopped. I'm grateful the recovery system was still around when that time came for me.

I do not deny the negative impact The Seed had on some of you, but along with that, I must say that my experience was positive. Although it took a while for the 'seeds' to sprout, (I needed to dump a bunch of fertilizer on them) that dog gone dogma came back to the front of my mind when I needed it.

Based on the end time Seed stories I've read here, it is clear to me now that Art and staff are human beings. As such, they are subject to making mistakes, wrestling with ego balance, etc. as much as I am. (Sure glad I didn't choose them as my Higher Power!)

I remember in raps hearing people parrot 'your higher power can be a light bulb or a door knob' over the years that routine was the source of  many a chuckle with my Seed siblings, there were 4 of us, until the fog started lifting and I realized I need a door knob to open doors, and a light to see where I'm going in life.

I am above all grateful to God for placing me in an environment where I could come to understand that even I can live a life with big chunks of serenity and peace in it. I have no regrets.

Take care :wave: , Thom  :tup:

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