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Messages - Thom

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1
The Seed Discussion Forum / More Trivia
« on: January 06, 2006, 12:35:00 AM »
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On 2006-01-05 21:06:00, Antigen wrote:

"
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On 2006-01-05 07:39:00, Thom wrote:


"Sorry to hear about Skipper Chuck's passing. What was the cause of death? Too much zinc?"




No, that was his girlfriend, Mrs. Finklestein"

assuming Chuck had wood.

2
The Seed Discussion Forum / More Trivia
« on: January 06, 2006, 12:26:00 AM »
[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2006-01-05 21:36 ]

3
The Seed Discussion Forum / More Trivia
« on: January 05, 2006, 10:39:00 AM »
Sorry to hear about Skipper Chuck's passing. What was the cause of death? Too much zinc?

4
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 25, 2005, 05:02:00 AM »
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On 2005-10-24 17:55:00, Antigen wrote:

"Point is, if you had not believed that one drink would set you on an inexorable path to an undignified early death, it probably wouldn't have."

It obviously didn't.

So, like, you think the whole powerless thing is a myth? Remember that concept next time you feel a diarrhea attack coming on. Try: If I will it away, it won't happen. Or, if I make less trips to the toilet I'll be OK.

Ever puke from drinking? If so, did you ever drink again? If so, why?

5
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 25, 2005, 01:35:00 AM »
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On 2005-10-24 21:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maybe she's just got the guts to tell the truth.  The fact that you're so deeply involved in XA  has somthing to do with that.  I've had many conversations with Ginger and she seems like one of the well-adjusted people on here. "

If your perception is that she is telling the truth, then it naturally follows that she seems like one of the (most?) well adjusted people on here to you. By her own admission, she is an accomplished 'seemer'

6
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 24, 2005, 10:51:00 PM »
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On 2005-10-24 17:55:00, Antigen wrote:

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Now, the schizm in my family has been problematic. My family basically condemned me as a hopeless addict because I won't buy into the Program line. Or maybe they've been waiting patiently for over 20 years now for me to finally lose control. How damned long does this stuff take to start working, anyway?



But it's not my problem.

Ginger, I hate to break this to you, but the reason no one in our family makes an effort to communicate with you (besides me, for some strange reason) is that you choose to be obnoxious and antagonistic, and they have more self respect than to believe they have to tolerate that just because of the blood line thing. The factions in the 'schism' are you vs everyone else in the family. It doesn't even qualify, as the definition of a schism is, 'An exclusive circle of people with a common purpose' (unless the rest of your circle is the staff members in your head). I've never heard anyone refer to you as an addict, hopeless or otherwise, and ironically, I'm the most active program person (practitioner of Stepcraft) in the family, yet I respect your right and your choice to believe it's an evil scheme. (Maybe I need to be started over.)

7
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 24, 2005, 07:30:00 PM »
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On 2005-10-24 16:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The source of the statistics was AA's own 1989 Triennial Report.  Even they know their program is bullshit, they just keep looking for suckers that buy into it anyway.  That's because the cult isn't about "recovery" or dealing with addiction in an effective way, the cult is only about it's own growth, not unlike a cancer cell."

Can you name the leader of the AA 'cult'?

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 24, 2005, 07:26:00 PM »

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 24, 2005, 05:49:00 PM »
The problem was me, the solution was God.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 24, 2005, 04:44:00 PM »
:grin:

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 23, 2005, 08:07:00 PM »
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On 2005-10-23 13:20:00, Antigen wrote:

"Helena, I used to worry about Thom's kids. I'm happy to say, though, that when it came down to it, he did NOT put them in programs.

They didn't need programs

That's the funny thing. You see how really brutally and personally he'll attack me for my criticism of Art and the Seed. But he never did get around to dropping in to say hi and thanks to good old Art, not even when he had to drive almost right by the place on the way from the airport to a highschool reunion.

My flight got in with just enough time to get across town to the reunion. I do regret not visiting Art and Shelly afterward. With the exception of seeing your beautiful children, it would have been a better use of my time.

 Though we fought bitterly, it wasn't lost on me at all that he made the trip to see us instead.



Ginger...you fought bitterly. I just wanted to enjoy the limited time I had to visit with you to visit with you, and not dredge up old Seed/ Straight debate. When it became clear you were not capable of participating in a normal conversation with out your obsession getting in the way, and continued interogating me, I had to cut the visit short. I still worry about your kids. Mine are fine. John left for Gulfport, MS today to help with the rebuilding effort. Shannon spent the day playing with my Grand Daughter, (when I would let her have a turn) then cooked dinner for us all. Pretty normal stuff, I think.
<

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 23, 2005, 01:06:00 AM »
Shelly,
I can almost see them motivating now. They're going to come down on you big time for your non-conformist attitudes. :lol:

13
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 23, 2005, 12:37:00 AM »
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On 2005-10-22 14:57:00, Antigen wrote:

"Forced, tricked, what's the difference? Never mind the austensible message (which was consistently contradicted by their actions), pay attention to the other side of it for a moment.

"If I leave here and go back to the streets[sic], I'll be totally misserable cause my addiction[sic] is right outside the door doing push ups!" That can be potent a self fulfilling prophecy. I don't think it would ever have happened if you hadn't been so thoroughly indoctrinated w/ the idea.

It's NORMAL for a 14yo kid to be averse to growing up, damn it! It's NORMAL for a young teen to want to sample the goods and try a little of whatever other, older kids are doing.

Thom, you got bad directions from the Seed. I think the reason why you've had souch a rough time 'working your program' is because it just doesn't work very well in the real world.

Besides, you never would have been able to keep w/ the no sex/masturbating rule for very long. So it's probably all for the best.


Ging,

This is not the first time you have made mention of your perception that I have trouble working my program. You make it sound like I've been in this life-long battle for abstinance. This has not been my situation at all. in the early '70's, I worked the program, and got results. Then I stopped working the program, and stopped getting results. I did that twice during that time period.

From the period of around '75-'91, I worked no program, and drugged and drank as much as I wanted to. From '91 to the present, I have worked the program, and gotten my desired results. Abstinance from alcohol, drugs (including nicotine) and cut way back on caffiene. I have no problem with the real world stuff today.

I understand that if I smoke, I increase the risk of cancer, heart disease, emphysema, etc. So I choose not to smoke because I don't really want those things.

If I drink/drug, I increase the risk of liver, heart, kidney, brain, relationship, legal, employment, etc. problems. Again, these are not things I want, so I don't drink/drug.

I see no problem here. Why manufacture one? Is it because of a need of your's to use sensationalism and exageration to somehow try and distort my experiences into something more supportive of your agenda? It's an anoying habit of yours, and I do wish you would try to refrain from it. I don't feel you are any more qualified to psycho-analize my behavior than Art is. Or...did you visit the paper mill too?

Not quite sure why you saw fit to through in the comment about sex/masturbation, but I'm glad I was not under that rule. That guy's story the other week was hard to hear. Must have been tough. When I was in the Seed, it was strongly suggested to me that I avoid a 'guy/girl' relationship during the first year. Makes sense to me today, as I was not mature enough to handle all the dynamics of a healthy relationship until I was about 40  :grin: . I could do the sex part, but had trouble with real intimacy and being responsible. Nothing about masturbation was mentioned to me at the Seed.[ This Message was edited by: Thom on 2005-10-22 21:42 ]

14
Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 22, 2005, 03:50:00 PM »
Helena,

I agree with most of what you have said here, and my comment was not directed at you.
I don't believe that involuntary treatment of kids using drugs is effective most of the time. I don't dispute that damage was and is done by adolecent forced treatment programs.

I was a voluntary participant in the Seed, so my perspective is different from many who post here. It's not an I'm right, they're wrong situation, my personal experience was not the same because I was not subjected to any of the in-your-face stuff that many others were, because I was there to learn.

By strict program standards, I was a screw-up, because I abused illicit drugs after I left the Seed. I take issue with the line of reasoning that my drug use after the program was caused by trauma suffered there. I used drugs, before and after program because I had an aversion to the concept of growing up, plain and simple.

My perception just before entering the Seed was influenced by the fact that many kids in my neighborhood were forced to go by their frightened parents. If drug use caused such a big uproar among adults, maybe there was danger ahead that I could not see. Maybe I could benefit from the experiences of those who had been through the ringer with drugs before I got in over my head.

An analogy would be that if I perceived I might be lost or about to get lost, it would be wise to stop and ask directions from someone who had been there, and who knows how to get back.

Another angle would be that if my car broke down, and I called AAA, if I could not offer a fair description of where I was located, and barring GPS, I might be stuck there for a while.

Some preventive maintainance might have allowed me to skip the breakdown altogether. My Seed experience was an oportunity like that.

If I had continued to follow the directions, I likely would not have gotten lost later in life. When I did get lost, and as I entered my thirties was at the point where I could finally stop and ask directions, I still had enough fragments of the old map tucked away in my brain that getting back on track was not as difficult as it might have been had I not, at one point, obtained the map.

I believe The Seed slowed my drug use down a lot. It was hard to enjoy a good buzz once I knew it was not merely a diversion, but was actually counter-productive, and a journey down the wrong path.

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Straight, Inc. and Derivatives / The Origin of All this was The Seed
« on: October 22, 2005, 03:05:00 AM »
Which Charleston was that, anyway?

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