Author Topic: Involuntary Committment... Notice Any Similarities  (Read 17281 times)

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Offline Deborah

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Involuntary Committment... Notice Any Similarities
« on: May 13, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
Notice any similarities in this testimony?

May 12, 2005

Re   S.B. No. 1305   Wanting to extend the time a person may be detained in custody for a preliminary examination from 24 hours to 72 hours (or 48).

I am adamantly opposed to this bill for many reasons, mostly because I value human rights such as liberty and freedom, and the notion that the state may not curtail these liberties without evidence of criminal activity and without due process for the accused citizen.

The interface between psychiatry and the law is intensely problematic. Psychiatry is coercive. In every one of our 50 states, psychiatrists use
involuntary commitment and threat of commitment. State laws protect and guarantee this practice, under the guise and rationale of "public safety"
and "concern for troubled individuals."

I know we are not here to question involuntary commitment per se, but to even begin thinking clearly in this arena, it must be recognized that
psychiatry is the one place where our society systematically disregards civil liberties. It is the one place where citizens can be locked up
indefinitely against their will, without any evidence, much less conviction of crime. I have worked with people myself who have been locked up for years upon years in this way, on someone's opinion that they were dangerous. I have seen how little validity there is to such practice. I have written about this at length in my books

As I value human civil rights, I don't like coercive psychiatry. I also don't like the euphemistic language of psychiatry that obscures the truth. You on this committee have heard my efforts to challenge the language that twists the truth that we are wantonly and unnecessarily drugging millions of our school age children into a virtuous claim that we are giving necessary
"medicine" to our poor, sick, mentally ill children. In a similar vein, we hear virtuous claims that these poor, sick, mentally ill adults are incapable of moral choice and responsibility, and therefore exempt from legal protection. So involuntary commitment is considered a necessary
medical treatment, and we are here today arguing about the "need" to "commit" people for a longer time before they get any due process whatsoever. Of course, the blinding rhetoric is that we are "committing" "patients."  This obscures the more accurate language, which reveals the truth that we are talking about imprisoning citizens.

However prettily one packages the facts, the truth of coercion remains. Here are the words of CS Lewis, English scholar and writer:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but
those who torment us for our own good will  torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience ... Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To  be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level with those who have not yet reached the age of reason."

From the point of view of a free American citizen,
Involuntary Commitment = Imprisonment.

It is interesting that we say "involuntary commitment." Has anyone ever heard locking up convicted felons as "involuntary imprisonment?" Of course not. All imprisonment is by definition involuntary. The claim to virtue with psychiatry is that the mentally ill are incapable of doing things voluntarily. This is mostly a lie. The real problem is that our psychiatric system is so inhuman most folks try to stay away. My experience is that people generally like to get help if it is truly respectful and empowering.

Back on point with this bill. I will say this in a harsh way, because the reality of the use of state force on citizens by coercive psychiatry is
harsh. It is a bad idea to unnecessarily remove what paltry protections exist for those accused of mental illness and incarcerated in prisons,
euphemistically called psychiatric hospitals. Please do not pass this bill out of committee. Leave well enough alone with the 24-hour holding period.

Sincerely Yours,
John Breeding, PhD
Austin, Texas
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Offline Paul

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Involuntary Committment... Notice Any Similarities
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2005, 01:27:00 PM »
To bad you didn't write this when
involuntary committment was huge
in this country.

After de-institutionalization and
the closing of almost all state
psychiatric hospitals your angst
has become moot.

Where did you cut and past this
passionate post from?

Today anasognosia is the problem,
patients not realizing they need
treatment is what is ending them
up in jail.

You did watch PBS "The New Asylums?"

You are just arguing a point that
is no longer relevant, born too late?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2005, 02:54:00 PM »
Moot? Hardly.

You're detained for exhibiting any human emotion. You're held 72 hours without being able to make bail, consult an attorney, or even assure your family that you are alright; while some shrink determines if you're dangerous. Senate Bill 1305, would do just that, it has passed the Texas Senate and will soon be referred to a committee in the Texas House of Representatives.

Or your employer (Ford Motor) sets about getting you labeled and drugged for opposing management.

Here's a really good story about what can happen once your tangled in the web... Crazy Until Proven Sane:
http://psychrights.org/Stories/CrazyUntilProvenSane.pdf

Nifty little tricks for silencing those who exhibit justified opposition/anger about being oppressed.
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2005, 04:30:00 PM »
Georgia allows holding you for 72 hours for evaluation.

That doesn't mean they actually hold you for that long, just that they can.

When I hadn't been put on meds yet, I was diverted by a therapist for evaluation at the local mental hospital.  The sherrif's department sent a car to drive me there.

They filled out papers on me and told me I was being evaluated for involuntary commitment.  They also told me if I was committed my next of kin would become responsible for making decisions for me until I was stable and discharged, and that I would have the opportunity to challenge any decision to commit me.  They told me that if I had a living will, any person named in my living will to handle my affairs if I became incompetent would become responsible for making decisions for me until I was stable and discharged.

Then they sat me down in a waiting room until their psychiatrist could see me.  I explained to him that what I wanted was not to die, what I desparately wanted was medication to make the pain stop.  He asked me a few more questions, said, "I think we can deal with this on an outpatient basis" and gave me a few tips on how to get the care I wanted and needed.

Then they let me go the same day, after less than six or so hours, and gave me back my stuff that they put away when searching me for weapons--an old-style airport kind of search, not a strip search--and let me use the phone (free) to call my roommate to come get me and take me back to pick up my car.

Conspiracy theories aside, I don't know anyone here other than me who's actually been through this civil commitment process.  What happened was that there was no way in hell the state-run mental hospital wanted to keep me a minute long than they had to.  And not because of my sparkling personality. :smile:

They didn't want to have to pay to feed me, they didn't want to have to assign me a room and take care of me, and they didn't want me taking up their doctors' and nurses' time.  All those things cost money.

Private mental hospitals might have incentive to keep patients.  State facilities would rather get rid of you as fast as they can.

The difference between voluntary and involuntary commitment--and it's *not* all involuntary---is that in voluntary commitment somebody goes down to the hospital, tells them they want to kill themselves or someone else, and checks themselves in.  Of course, then your ability to check yourself out is limited--but not necessarily not there.

You can either go when they kick you out :smile: or if you choose to go earlier, you can check yourself out "Against Medical Advice"---but unless the doctor will affirm you are immediately dangerous to yourself or others, they have to let you leave.  Again, if they try to keep you at that point, you can challenge being involuntarily committed when you decide you want to leave and they don't want to let you go.

While you are committed, if you choose not to take any psychiatric drugs, they can't make you.  And they can't keep you indefinitely even if you don't take the drugs.  When you are no longer immediately, actively dangerous, they have to let you go.  And most mentally ill people will stabilize for short periods even without drugs--we just relapse more often and worse without the right meds.

I have a friend who committed herself to the same state hospital that didn't commit me.  She stayed there for three weeks, they helped her get not suicidal, pointed her towards aftercare if she wanted it--with no compulsion to take it--and discharged her.

I have another friend who *was* involuntarily committed because she's schizophrenic and she held four members of her family at gunpoint for five hours.  When I talked to her a few years after she'd been released--and they didn't keep her long--she was in group therapy and off her meds because she didn't like the side effects.  Nobody was putting her back in, because her doctor didn't judge her to be immediately dangerous and she obviously wasn't holding any more people at gunpoint.

Beds are very limited, budgets are tight, and state mental hospitals really don't want to have you there unless you're an inch from suicide or psychotic and really homicidal.

I understand some people are paranoid enough to believe otherwise, but mostly if you're kept for evaluation and you don't talk about wanting to die or killing yourself, and you don't hallucinate bugs on your skin and talk to God as though God talks back, and you firmly deny having little voices in your head--especially deny having command hallucinations.  As long as you don't tell them the aliens or the conspiracy are beaming thoughts into your brain or dead people are talking to you or things like that, they have to let you go, and they do.

Programs are getting paid the big bucks to keep kids.

State mental hospitals are losing money every day you're there, and if you *aren't* dangerous they've got five other people who *are* dangerous competing for your bed.

They never have enough beds for the people they believe need to be there, and they're always worried about the political black eye (and getting fired) if the guy they *don't* admit because they think some other guy is *more* dangerous---if the one they don't admit grabs an axe and starts hacking people up.

I don't always agree with psychiatry coercively stopping people from killing themselves.

I *do* always agree with psychiatry coercively stopping people from killing others.

The way the laws are, if you are an adult and you are not dangerous to yourself or others, there are *way* more mentally ill people fighting to *get* psychiatric treatment than there are people, mentally ill and not, fighting to avoid it.

You guys have firsthand experience with the Programs; I have firsthand experience with the commitment process and with *not* being committed even though I was mentally ill because the pshrink decided I was not actively dangerous.

By choosing to have a cow about this, you are way overreacting.

30% of homeless people are seriously mentally ill.

If you want to help those of us who have serious mental illnesses, do something about that.

Until then, Mr/Ms oh-so-concerned, don't do us any favors.

Timoclea

Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson, 1787

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2005, 06:04:00 PM »
Deb and Tim,
  In practical terms, it really just depends on who you run into. In Florida, Straight used the Baker Act to threaten to extend my intake "interview" for three days. I told them go ahead, so they came up w/ new and more interesting threats (2 year court order did the trick)

  One of the times I ran, I landed up in a halfway house in Youngstown, Ohio. They had statutes built on the Baker Act there too, but they used them differently. There, you could be held for evaluation for up to 48 hours w/o anyone being obliged to report you as a runaway. There were about a half a dozen kids there who just didn't need long term treatment or incarceration but who couldn't go home either. So they'd just pack up their kit every two days and switch halfway houses. I should have joined them, but I got talked into calling my sister and giving away my location. Oh well. Ya' don't have to hit me up side the head w/ a 2x4 more than a few times....

After all, who wouldn't prefer Middle Earth, unless they've been corrupted by a Ring of Power?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins73.html' target='_new'>Jeff Elkins; Tolkien's Libertarian Vision

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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 07:44:00 PM »
Today the courts and the psych industry are intertwined. Many of the children who are in teen programs have been placed there by the courts.  The courts also routinely recommend psych counseling for even the most minor offences. Their decisions often way heavily on the recommendation of psychologists.  As a result the psych industry has become corrupt. There are many quacks out there.  Of course there are good psychologists - but all can not be trusted.  

Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
http://www.powersource.com/gallery/people/sittbull.html' target='_new'>Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 08:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-13 16:44:00, cherish wisdom wrote:

Of course there are good psychologists - but all can not be trusted


From the pov of anyone subject to involuntary commitment, it's a crap shoot. And you're not even the one thowing the dice, just the one wagering it all on the roll.

May the fleas of one thousand llamas infest your armpits
--One ticked off sysadmin

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 11:53:00 PM »
The very same dynamic is going on in programs to young, vulnerable, minds. People have dreamed of a plant infilrating a program... here's how that might go.....
http://members.aol.com/ahunter3/psych_i ... enhan.html

If sanity and insanity exist, how shall we know them?

The question is neither capricious nor itseIf insane. However much we may be personally convinced that we can tell the normal from the abnormal, the evidence is simply not compelling. It is commonplace, for example, to read about murder trials wherein eminent psychiatrists for the defense are contradicted by equally eminent psychiatrists for the prosecution on the matter of the defendant's sanity. More generally, there are a great deal of conflicting data on the reliability, utility, and meaning of such terms as "sanity," "insanity," "mental illness." and "schizophrenia" (1). From as early as 1934, Benedict suggested that normality and abnormality are not universal (2). What is viewed as normaI in one culture may be seen as quite aberrant in another. Thus, notions of normality and abnormality may not be quite as accurate as people believe they are.

To raise questions regarding normality and abnormality is in no way to question the fact that some behaviors are deviant or odd. Murder is deviant. So, too, are hallucinations. Nor does raising such questions deny the existence of the personal anguish that is often associated with 'mental illness." Anxiety and depression exist. Psychological suffering exists. But normality and abnormality, sanity and insanity, and the diagnoses that flow from them may be less substantive than many believe them to be.

At its heart, the question of whether the sane can be distinguished from the insane (and whether degrees of insanity can be distinguished from each other) is a simple matter: do the salient characteristics that lead to diagnoses reside in the patients themselves or in the environments and contexts in which observers find them? . . . [T]he belief has been strong that patients present symptoms, that those symptoms can be categorized, and, implicitly, that the sane are distinguishable from the insane. More recently, however, this belief has been questioned. . . . [T]he view has grown that psychological categorization of mental illness is useless at best and downright harmful, misleading, and pejorative at worst. Psychiatric diagnoses, in this view, are in the minds of the observers and are not valid summaries of characteristics displayed by the observed (3-5).

Gains can be made in deciding which of these is more nearly accurate by getting normal people (that is, people who do not have, and have never suffered, symptoms of serious psychiatric disorders) admitted to psychiatric hospitals and then determining whether they were discovered to be sane and, if so, how. If the sanity of such pseudopatients were always detected, there would be prima facie evidence that a sane individual can be distinguished from the insane context in which he is found. . . , If, on the other hand, the sanity of the pseudopatients were never discovered, serious difficulties would arise for those who support traditional modes of psychiatric diagnosis. Given that the hospital staff was not incompetent, that the pseudopatient had been behaving as sanely as he had been outside of the hospital, and that it had never been previously suggested that he belonged in a psychiatric hospital, such an unlikely outcome would support the view that psychiatric diagnosis betrays little about the patient but much about the environment in which an observer finds him.

This article describes such an experiment. Eight sane people gained secret admission to 12 different hospitals (6). Their diagnostic experiences constitute the data of the first part of this article; the remainder is devoted to a description of their experiences in psychiatric institutions.

PSEUDOPATIENTS AND THEIR SETTINGS
The eight pseudopatients were a varied group. One was a psychology graduate student in his 20's. The remaining seven were older and "established." Among them were three psychologists, a pediatrician, a psychiatrist, a painter, and a housewife. Three pseudopatients were women, five were men. All of them employed pseudonyms, lest their alleged diagnoses embarrass them later. Those who were in mental health professions alleged another occupation in order to avoid the special attentions that might be accorded by staff, as a matter of courtesy or caution, to ailing colleagues (7). With the exception of myself (I was the first pseudopatient and my presence was known to the hospital administrator and chief psychologist and, so far as I can tell, them alone), the presence of pseudopatients and the nature of the research program was not known to to hospital staffs (8).

The settings were similarly varied. In order to generalize the findings, admission into a variety of hospitals was sought. The 12 hospitals in the sample were located in five different states on the East and West coasts. Some were old and shabby, some were quite new. Some were research-oriented, others not. Some had good staff-patient ratios, others were quite understaffed. Only one was a strictly private hospital. All of the others were supported by state or federal funds or, in one instance, by university funds.

After calling the hospital for an appointment, the pseudopatient arrived at the admissions office complaining that he had been hearing voices. Asked what the voices said, he replied that they were often unclear, but as far as he could tell they said "empty," "hollow," and "thud." The voices were unfamiliar and were of the same sex as the pseudopatient.

Beyond alleging the symptoms and falsifying name, vocation, and employment, no further alterations of persons' history, or circumstances, were made. The significant events of the pseudopatient's life history were presented as they had actually occurred. Relationhips with parents and siblings, with spouse and children, with people at work and in school, consistent with the aforementioned exceptions, were described as they were or had been. Frustrations and upsets were described along with joys and satisfactions. These facts are important to remember. If anything, they strongly biased the subsequent results in favor of detecting sanity, since none of their histories or current behaviors were seriously pathological in any way.

Immediately upon admission to the psychiatric ward, the pseudopatient ceased simulating any symptoms of abnormality. in some cases, there was a brief period of mild nervousness and anxiety, since none of the pseudopatients really believed that they would be admitted so easily. Indeed, their shared fear was that they would be immediately exposed as frauds and greatly embarrassed. Moreover, many of them had sever visited a psychiatric ward; even those who had, nevertheless had some genuine fears about what might happen to them. Their nervousness, then, was quite appropriate to the novelty of the hospital setting, and it abated rapidly.

Apart from that short-lived nervousness, the pseudopatient behaved on the ward as he "normally" behaved. The pseudopatient spoke to patients and staff as he might ordinarily. Because there is uncommonly little to do on a psychiatric ward, he attempted to engage others in conversation. When asked by staff how he was feeling, he indicated that be was fine, that he no longer experienced symptoms. He responded to instructions from attendants, to calls for medication (which was not swallowed), and to dining-hall instructions. Beyond such activities as were available to him on the admissions ward, he spent his time writing down his observations about the ward, its patients, and the staff. Initially these notes were written "secretly," but as it soon became clear that no one much cared, they were subsequently written on standard tablets of paper in such public places as the dayroom. No secret was made of these activities.

The pseudopatient, very much as a true psychiatric patient, entered a hospital with no foreknowledge of when he would be discharged. Each was told that he would have to get out by his own devices, essentially by convincing the staff that be was sane. The psychological stresses associated with hospitalization were considerable, and all but one of the pseudopatients desired to be discharged almost immediately after being admitted. They were, therefore, motivated not only to behave sanely, but to be paragons of cooperation. That their behavior was in no way disruptive is confirmed by nursing reports which have been obtained on most of the patients. These reports uniformly indicate that the patients were "friendly" "cooperative," and "exhibited no abnormal indications."

THE NORMAL ARE NOT DETECTABLY SANE
In spite their public "show" of sanity, the pseudopatients were never detected. Admitted, except in one case, with a diagnosis of schizophrenia (9), each was discharged with a diagnosis of schizophrenia "in remission." The in remission" should in no way be dismissed as a formality, for at no time during any hospitalization had any question been raised about any pseudopatient's simulation. Nor are there any indications in the hospital records that the pseudopatient's status was suspect. Rather, the evidence is strong that, once labeled schizophrenic. the pseudopatient was stuck with that label. If the pseudopatient was to be discharged, he must naturally be "in remission" but be was not sane, nor, in the institution's view, had he ever been sane.

The uniform failure to recognize sanity cannot be attributed to the quality of the hospitals. . . . Nor can it be alleged that there was simply not enough time to observe the pseudopatients. Length of hospitalization ranged from 7 to 52 days, with an average of 19 days. The pseudopatients were not, in fact, carefully observed, but this failure clearly speaks more to traditions within psychiatric hospitals than to lack of opportunity.

Finally, it cannot be said that the failure to recognize the pseudopatients' sanity was due to the fact that they were not behaving sanely. While there was clearly some tension present in all of them, their daily visitors could detect no serious behavioral consequences--nor, indeed, could other patients. It was quite common for the patients to "detect" the pseudopatients' sanity. "You're not crazy. You're a journalist, or a professor [referring to the continual note-taking]. You're checking up on the hospital."

While most of the patients were reassured by the pseudopatient's insistence that he had been sick before he came in but was fine now, some continued to believe that the pseudopatient was sane throughout his hospitalization (10). The fact that the patients often recognized normality when staff did not raises important questions.

Failure to detect sanity during the course of hospitalization may be due to the fact that . . . physicians are more inclined to call a healthy person sick than a sick person healthy.

The reasons for this are not hard to find: it is clearly more dangerous to misdiagnose illness than health. Better to err on the side of caution--to suspect illness even among the healthy.

But what holds for medicine does not hold equally well for psychiatry. Medical illnesses, while unfortunate, are not commonly pejorative. Psychiatric diagnoses, on the contrary, carry with them personal, legal, and social stigmas (11). It was therefore important to see whether the tendency toward diagnosing the sane insane could be reversed. The following experiment was arranged at a research and teaching hospital whose staff had heard these findings but doubted that such an error could occur in their hospital. The staff was informed that at some time during the following 3 months, one or more pseudopatients would attempt to be admitted into the psychiatric hospital. Each staff member was asked to rate each patient who presented himself at admissions or on the ward according to the likelihood that the patient was a pseudopatient.

Judgments were obtained on 193 patients who were admitted for psychiatric treatment. All staff who had had sustained contact with or primary responsibility for the patient--attendants, nurses, psychiatrists, physicians, and psychologists--were asked to make judgments. Forty-nine patients were alleged, with high confidence, to be pseudopatients by at least one member of the staff. Twenty-three were considered suspect by at least one psychiatrist. Nineteen were suspected by one psychiatrist and one other staff member. Actually, no genuine pseudopatient (at least from my group) presented himself during this period.

The experiment is instructive. It indicates that the tendency to designate sane people as insane can be reversed when the stakes (in this case, prestige and diagnostic acumen) are high. But what can he said of the 19 people who were suspected of being "sane" by one psychiatrist and another staff member? Were these people truly "sane?" There is no way of knowing. But one thing is certain: any diagnostic process that lends itself so readily to massive errors of this sort cannot be a very reliable one.

THE STICKINESS OF PSYCHODIAGNOSTIC LABELS
Beyond the tendency to call the healthy sick--a tendency that accounts better for diagnostic behavior on admission than it does for such behavior after a lengthy period of exposure--the data speak to the massive role of labeling in psychiatric assessment. Having once been labeled schizophrenic, there is nothing the pseudopatient can do to overcome the tag. The tag profoundly colors others' perceptions of him and his behavior.

From one viewpoint, these data are hardly surprising, for it has long been known that elements are given meaning by the context in which they occur. Once a person is designated abnormal,all of his other behaviors and characteristics are colored by that label. Indeed, that label is so powerful that many of the pseudopatients' normal behaviors were overlooked entirely or profoundly misinterpreted. Some examples may clarify this issue.

Earlier I indicated that there were no changes in the pseudopatient's personal history and current status beyond those of name, employment, and, where necessary, vocation. Otherwise, a veridical description of personal history and circumstances was offered. Those circumstances were not psychotic. How were they made consonant with the diagnosis of psychosis? Or were those diagisoses modified in such a way as to bring them into accord with the circumstances of the pseudopatient's life, as described by him?

As far as I can determine, diagnoses were in no way affected by the relative health of the circumstances of a pseudopatient's life. Rather, the reverse occurred: the perception of his circumstances was shaped entirely by the diagnosis. A clear example of such translation is found in the case of a pseudopatient who had had a close relationship with his mother but was rather remote from his father during his early childhood. During adolescence and beyond, however, his father became a close friend, while his relationship with his mother cooled. His present relationship with his wife was characteristically close and warm. Apart from occasional angry exchanges, friction was minimal. The children had rarely been spanked. Surely there is nothing especially pathological about such a history. . . . Observe, however, how such a history was translated in the psychopathological context, this from the case summary prepared after the patient was discharged.

This white 39-year-old male . . . manifests a long history of considerable ambivalence in close relationships, which began in early childhood. A warm relationship with his mother cools during his adoleseence. A distant relationship to his father is described as becoming very intense. Affective stability is absent. His attempts to control emotionality with his wife and children are punctuated by angry outbursts and, in the case of the children, spankings. And while he says that he has several good friends, one senses considerable ambivalence embedded in those relationships also.

The facts of the case were unintentionally distorted by the staff to achieve consistency, with a popular theory of the dynamics of a schizophrenic reaction (12). Nothing of an ambivalent nature had been described in relations with parents, spouse, or friends. . . . Clearly. the meaning ascribed to his verbalizations (that is, ambivalence. affective instability) was determined by the diagnosis: schizophrenia. An entirely different meaning would have been ascribed if it were known that the man was "normal."

All pseudopatients took extensive notes publicly. Under ordinary circumstances, such behavior would have caused questions in the minds of observers--as, in fact, it did among patients. Indeed, it seemed so certain that the notes would elicit suspicion that elaborate precautions were taken to remove them from the ward each day. But the precautions proved needless. The closest any staff member came to questioning these notes occurred when one pseudopatient asked his physician what kind of medication he was receiving and began to write down the response. "You needn't write it," he was told gently. "If you have trouble remembering, just ask me again."

If no questions were asked of the pseudopatients, how was their writing interpreted? Nursing records for three pseudopatients indicate that the writing was seen as an aspect of their pathological behavior. . . . Given that the patient is in the hospital, he must be psychologically disturbed. And given that he is disturbed, continuous writing msut be a behavioral manifestation of that disturbance, perhaps a subset of the compulsive behaviors that are sometimes correlated with schizophrenia.

One tacit characteristic of psychiatric diagnosis is that it locates the sources of aberration within the individual and only rarely within the complex of stimuli that surrounds him. Consequently, behaviors that are stimulated by the environment are commonly misattributed to the patient's disorder. For example, one kindly nurse found a pseudopatient pacing the long hospital corridors. "Nervous, Mr. X?" she asked. "No, bored," he said.

The notes kept by pseudopatients are full of patient behaviors that were misinterpreted by well-intentioned staff. Often enough, a patient would go "berserk" because he had, wittingly or unwittingly, been mistreated by, say, an attendant. A nurse coming upon the scene would rarely inquire even cursorily into the environmental stimuli of the patient's behavior. Rather, she assumed that his upset derived from his pathology, not from his present interactions with other staff members. . . . (Never were the staff found to assume that one of themselves or the structure of the hospital had anything to do with a patient's behavior. One psychiatrist pointed to a group of patients who were sitting outside the cafeteria entrance half an hour before lunchtime. To a group of young residents he indicated that such behavior was characteristic of the oral-acquisitive nature of the syndrome. It seemed not to occur to him that there were very few things to anticipate in a psychiatric hospital besides eating.

A psychiatric label has a life and an influence of its own. Once the impression has been formed that the patient is schizophrenic, the expectation is that he will continue to be schizophrenic. When a sufficient amount of time has passed, during which the patient has done nothing bizarre, he is considered to be in remission and available for discharge. But the label endured beyond discharge, with the unconfirmed expectation that he will behave as a schizophrenic again. Such labels, conferred by mental health professionals, are as influential on the patient as they are on his relatives and friends, and it should not surprise anyone that the diagnosis acts on all of them as a self-fulfiiling prophecy. Eventually, the patient himself accepts the diagnosis, with all of its surplus meanings and expectations, and behaves accordingly (5).

POWERLESSNESS AND DEPERSONALIZATION
Eye contact and verbal contact reflect concern and individuation; their absence, avoidance and depersonalization. The data I have presented do not do justice to the rich daily encounters that grew up around matters of depersonalization and avoidance. I have records of patients who were beaten by staff for the sin of having initiated verbal contact. During my own experience, for example, one patient was beaten in the presence of other patients for having approached an attendant and told him, "I like you." Occasionally, punishment meted out to patients for misdemeanors seemed so excessive that it could not be justified by the most radical interpretations of psychiatric canon. Nevertheless, they appeared to go unquestioned. Tempers were often short. A patient who had not heard a call for medication would be roundly excoriated, and the morning attendants would often wake patients with, "Come on, you m---f---s, out of bed!"

Neither anecdotal nor "hard" data can convey the overwhelming sense of powerlessness which invades the individual as he is continually exposed to the depersonalization of the psychiatric hospital. . .

Powerlessness was evident everywhere. The patient is deprived of many of his legal rights by deign of his psychiatric commitment (13). He is shorn of credibiilty by virtue of his psychiatric label. His freedom of movement is restricted. He cannot initiate contact with the staff but may only respond to any overtures as they make. Indeed, privacy is mininal. Patients' quarters and possessions can be entered and examined by any staff member, for whatever reason. His personal history and anguish is available to any staff member (often includinging the "grey lady" and "candy striper" volunteer) who chooses to real his folder, regardless of theIr therapeutic relationship to him. His personal hygiene and waste evacuation are often monitored. The toilet may have no door.

At times, depersonalization reaches such proportions that pseudopatients had the sense that they were invisible, or at least unworthy of account. Upon being admitted, I and other pseudopatients took the initial physical examinations in a semipublic room, where staff members went about their own business as if we were not there.

On the ward, attendants delivered verbal and occasionally serious physical abuse to patients in the presence of other observing patients, some of whom (the pseudopatients) were writing it all down. Abusive behavior, on the other hand, terminated quite abruptly when other staff members were known to be coming. Staff are credible witnesses. Patients are not.

A nurse unbuttoned her uniform to adjust her brassiere in the presence of an entire ward of viewing men. One did not have the sense that she was being seductive. Rather, she didn't notice us. A group of staff persons might point to a patient in the dayroom and discuss him animatedly, as if he were not there.

One illuminating instance of depersonalization and invisibility occurred with regard to medications. All told, the pseudopatients were administered nearly 2100 pills.. - Only two were swallowed. The rest were either pocketed or deposited in the toilet. The pseudopatients were not alone in this. Although I have no precise records on how many patients rejected their medications, the pseudopatients frequently found the medications of other patients in the toilet before they deposited their own. As long as they were cooperative, their behavior and the pseudopatients' own in this matter, as in other important matters, went unnoticed throughout.

Reactions to such depersonalization among pseudopatients were intense. Although they had come to the hospital as participant observers and were fully aware that they did not "belong," they nevertheless found themselves caught up in and fighting the process of depersonalization.

THE CONSEQUENCES OF LABELING AND DEPERSONALIZATION
Whenever the ratio of what is known to what needs to be known approaches zero, we tend to invent "knowledge" and assume that we understand more than we actually do. We seem unable to acknowledge that we simply don't know. The needs for diagnosis and remedistion of behavioral and emotional problems are enormous. But rather than acknowledge that we are just embarking on understanding, we continue to label patients "schizophrenic," "manic-depressive," and "insane," as if in those words we had captured the essence of understanding.

The facts of the matter are that we have known for a long time that diagnoses are often not useful or reliable, but we have nevertheless continued to use them. We now know that we cannot distinguish insanity from sanity. It is depressing to consider how that information will be used.

Not merely depressing, but frightening. How many people, one wonders, are sane but not recognized as such in our psychiatric institutions? How many have been needlessly stripped of their privileges of citizenship, from the right to vote and drive to that of handling their own accounts? How many have feigned insanity in order to avoid the criminal consequences of their behavior, and, conversely, how many would rather stand trial than live interminably in a psychiatric bhospital but are wrongly thought to be mentally ill? How many have been stigmatized by weil-intentioned, but nevertheless erroneous, diagnoses?. . . Psychiatric diagnoses are rarely found to be in error. The label sticks, a mark of inadequacy forever.

Finally, how many patients might be "sane" outside the psychiatric hospital but seem insane in it--not because their illness resides in them, as it were, but because they are responding to a bizarre setting, one that may be unique to institutions which harbor nether people? Goffman (4) calls the process of socialization to such institutions "mortification"--an apt metaphor that includes the processes of depersonalization that have been described here. And while it is impossible to know whether the pseudopatients' responses to these processes are characteristic of all inmates-they were, after all, not real patientst--is difficult to believe that these processes of socialization to a psychiatric hospital provide useful attitudes or habits of response for living in the "real world."
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2005, 12:00:00 AM »
Typical anti-psychiatry babble.

Nice if you have created a market
niche and are getting paid to write
and present bull crap.

I guess your solution is enroll
in Dianetics and see you in the morning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

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* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

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Offline Paul

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2005, 12:03:00 AM »
You got all the facts and current
trends correct.

Thanks for posting from first hand
experience.

The anti-pychiatry crowd will just
dismiss you as an anomoly.

That is sad, obviously.

I appreciate you stating it like it
is, those on the list who are seeking
the truth will appreciate your honesty.

The anti-psychiatrist will just keep
on hurting those that need help ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2005, 12:43:00 AM »
Keep on hurting those who need help?
Did you take your meds today?
You have a very narrow view on this issue.

I have no intention of hurting anyone, and certainly have no intention or the power to interfer with their 'mental health' decisions. Nor do the "anti-psych" people I know.

I put psychiatry on the same page with religion.
Practice it if you like, don't subject me to it. And I certainly don't want to be subjected to any laws based on the flawed thinking.

Whose hurting who? I really would not like to be involuntarily committed, even for 72 hours, for getting smart with a surly cop.
Not sure HOW you think opposing this Bill would hurt you. I don't think you know either.
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2005, 02:20:00 PM »
Yes, hurting those that are vulnerable.

Quoting anti-psychiatry dogma based
on emotion, not fact, influences
those that are not sure what treatment
to seek.

Please send the link, I tried to google
it for Texas to no avail.

Many patients go through the anti-pychiatry
phase of their quest for health. If they
are lucky and are not in jail or dead
then the next phase is to seek treatment
with evidence based practices.

Anti-psychiatry is far from an evidence
based practice.

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2005, 04:38:00 PM »
Good link. Here's something I found there.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Szasz/myth.htm

The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2005, 06:25:00 PM »
Just bullshit, that is all.

If one wants to stick their head in the
sand and ignore people with psychiatric
illnesses that is fine.

For those who have not abandoned the
mentally ill and watched the progress
over the last 25 years has been remarkable.

To keep going over this book which was
financed by the Scientologist, so that
sales don't matter, just the concept
in such a legitimate format ... a book!

The stats on mental illness kept by
the people who pay for these services
just don't correlate to the emotional
hype of the anti crowd.

To debate this issue ad nauseum while
totally ignoring the evidence based
research and clinical practice system
here and around the world is a waste
of time.

Ginger, you and the folks on this list
are smarter than that!
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Offline Paul

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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2005, 06:31:00 PM »
The most telling sign of an anti-psychiatry
person is their acceptance of the mentally
ill going to prison.

As one of the top anti-psychiatry persons
in California told me two weeks ago, one
of the families I was helping with their
delusional son - it was bad karma that
brought it on the family. There fault.

I asked her to call them, handed her my
cell phone ... she refused.

That is a beautiful advocacy she performs, eh?

---

I would rather help.

---

Anyway, watch this Frontline program.

There is no mental illness huh, I guess
just mentally ill people, but no illness, duh!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
or those who don\'t understand my position, on all subjects:

* Understand the law and your rights.

* Make sure you have the freedom of choice.

* Seek and receive unbiased information and
know the source of information.