Author Topic: A cult?  (Read 39557 times)

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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #330 on: May 24, 2005, 03:19:00 PM »
//Like my cousin goes to a Baptist church and you arent allowed to go in if you are a woman and if you arent wearing a skirt. Blah to that. And blah to any religion that spreads fear and spawns hateful people because of its docterine. //

On this we agree!
So, we do have some common ground. :wink:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #331 on: May 24, 2005, 05:13:00 PM »
Amanda, your problems with religion seem to be the same problems Christians have with religion.  Religion is not Christianity.  Christianity is about relationship.  You have mentioned several times that the Bible doesn't make sense.  You might want to look at a Bible study that explains some of the context of the passages to you.  Beth Moore has several really good ones you can get at pretty much any bookstore.  Breaking Free and When Godly People do Ungodly Things are two that might answer some questions for you.  There are groups that do these studies together, or you can do them on your own as well.  I am sorry for the messed up, so called believers you have had experiences with.  I do hope that God will put some TRUE followers in your path and that you will clearly recognize the difference.  There is a hymn, And they'll know we are Christians by our love...Not sure if that is the title, but it is the chorus.  If there is not love, there is not Christ.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #332 on: May 24, 2005, 05:17:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-24 14:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

  You might want to look at a Bible study that explains some of the context of the passages to you.  


But those are other's interpretations of what the bible says.  How is that any different?  She's just to accept what other people tell her it means?  I think she's doing a fine job on her own.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #333 on: May 24, 2005, 05:24:00 PM »
She is still just accepting what other people tell her, whether it is the wicken, the atheist, the tv evangelist or the book from the library.  Research is a good thing on both sides if you ever want to own your own opinion.
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Offline Angola Cheeba

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A cult?
« Reply #334 on: May 24, 2005, 11:29:00 PM »
God is not a man. Why do they call god a "him" then? If they are so comfortable wiht women why not call god "her"? Cuz the bible dosnt want men following a god who would even be considered a woman. Women cannot be priests in the Catholc church. Why? And no apostles (that we even know of) were women. Why didnt god choose to have a dughter? Becuase can you imagine a society so hateful and demeaning towards women following a WOMAN diety? Heaven forbid! :roll: No, other than mother mary, the most prominent improtant biblical people were men. The bible was written by men. Its a male dominated thing. Not that I have anything against men. Just that religion has a tendancy to make women seem like devious evil creatures.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\'homme est ne\'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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Offline Angola Cheeba

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« Reply #335 on: May 24, 2005, 11:36:00 PM »
Look, perhaps I havnt made myself clear...
Ive done my research. Ive read "What the Bible is all about", "Mere Christianity", ect. It still dosnt make sense to me. Not that Im an idiot and dotn understand the "Jackob begoteth joseph who begoteht so and so" and on and on. I understand the writing. I just dotn think the stories add up. It is hypocritical and strange.

My neighbor is the sweetest most awsome dude ive met. He is a Christian. We talk about it sometimes when I BRING IT UP. He never forces his beliefs on me or makes me uncomfortable. So I do know some Christians who arent assholes. However, I know Hindus who are great as well, and Buddists, and athiests, and....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\'homme est ne\'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #336 on: May 25, 2005, 11:28:00 AM »
//  And no apostles (that we even know of) were women //

If you define apostle as a believer who was an eye witness to Jesus' life, ministry and death, then you have to include Mary Magdalene.
Jesus had many women devoted to Him and who are spoken of very highly in the gospels and letters. You do them a grave dis-service writing them off as  being dipicted as insignificant, devious, evil creatures.
It was a woman, loved and greatly valued, who was the first resurrected by the power of the Holy Ghost working through Peter. Book of Acts, chapter 9 I think.
Christ Himself often made it clear how valued they were.

God is referred to with a masculine pronoun all threw out the Biblical text - so I accept that somehow, for some reason that I don't really understand, it is correct. It has never bothered me a bit. I am one strongly opposed to the re-writing of the text in neutral terms, or adding the female pronoun next to the masculine. That is a perversion of the text, and so a false teaching. If a person wants to redefine the nature of God, they need to admit they are not Judaic - Christians, and go on and join the wiccans in the woods.

// Why didnt god choose to have a dughter? Becuase can you imagine a society so hateful and demeaning towards women following a WOMAN diety? //

You are grossly mischaracterizing the nature of Judaic patriarchy. I feel society today is far more hateful and demeaning to women than it was in Biblical times. Yes, they had the subservient role in society; and by today's standards it is viewed as intolerably sexist - but remember that was then, and this is now. Women did in fact need more protection then, and this was provided by the patriarchal nature of society. This has been so in every society threw out the ages - up until the advent of widely available birth control. When it comes to evaluating the relative worth of the female sex in these societies, the Judaic version was the most liberal in recognizing the worth of a woman and in allowing them some personal rights under the law.
I think your quite right that a female Christ would not have been acceptable. Common sense seems to say so. But how is this so offensive to you that you would discount the salvation message as a result? That, to me, defies common sense.

// So I do know some Christians who arent assholes. However, I know Hindus who are great as well, and Buddists, and athiests, and.... //

Sure hon, I know. I know them too. But weather someone is an ass hole, or not, is not the deciding factor.  And those Hindus? Some of them still throw women on the funeral pyre to burn alive with their dead husbands.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #337 on: May 25, 2005, 01:11:00 PM »
Buzzkill, did you wait for me to leave the country to come back and spew this stuff?

 :grin:

Only women have pain in childbirth?  OMG, what a silly notion..I used to watch my cat go crazy with pain during childbirth.  You say these things because you want to believe them.

Someone else said you need faith to be an atheist.

Another erroneous notion.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god.

you need no faith to have no belief, you need faith to believe in something.

Do you have Faith that the easter bunny does not exist?

Do you have faith that leprechauns arent real and make magically delicious breakfast cereals?

Go look the word faith up. Atheists dont have faith, they lack faith in your supernatural god.
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Offline Angola Cheeba

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« Reply #338 on: May 25, 2005, 01:19:00 PM »
Lady, you are trippin! Women are more demeaned now than in biblical times!? Are you crazy?

YOUR bible protrays Mary as a scandelous hooker. And YOUR bible never once says they consider her an apostle. Your great book left that out. Hey, I dont think women are scandelous evil creatures. Christ was the ONLY one who made women valued. And the Jewish rabbis at the time were angry because Jesus did that.

It is a perversion of the text for the men who wrote it to only refer to god as a man. God is not a man. God does not have connotations of male or female. So if i choose to refer to god as a women, I am being sacreligious? Hmm.....

Ok, you are so confusing. How can you say that women were given rights and were treated liberaly when you just said that they would never follow a woman Christ? When you say they wer treated better then women in other societies, that dosnt mean they were treated well. now in the middle east, if a women commits adultry, BOTH the man and woman are murdered. Before only the woman was. WELL! That means women are treated SO much better now! Im sorry, but I just cannot listen to a message from a bunch of sexist, hypocritical, lying people. The Catholic church is leaving things out of the bible. I want ALL teh testimony on the bible, not just what they feel I need to know. And women were raped all the time, beaten openly, told to be subserviant and do their "duty" as a woman back in the day. Tell me, how is that being treated well?

Have I not said like three times in this thread that I hate organized religion? Not just Christianity, but ALL organized religion? I am not in favor of Hindus or Christians or whomever. If a religion causes harm and injustice to others then I am against it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
\'homme est ne\'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #339 on: May 25, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »
//YOUR bible protrays Mary as a scandelous hooker.//

No it doesn't.  This idea is part of traditional thought - but it is not found in scripture.

Besides, even if it is true that Mary Magdalin and the woman caught in adultery are the same person - she was treated with mercy and forgiveness and it was her accusers who left, shamed.

And yes - I think society today treats women in a more degrading manner that they were treated in the time of Christ.

Am I trippen? No, not lately.

HI Greg ::bandit:: [ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-05-25 10:50 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #340 on: May 25, 2005, 08:53:00 PM »
K, well believe what you will about that. Women are still treated like shit now, yet I have to say I woudl MUCH rather live today than in the time of Christ as a woman. And I think you are being diluded and ignorant about the women thing. But hey, you are entitled to your beliefs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #341 on: May 25, 2005, 08:53:00 PM »
K, well believe what you will about that. Women are still treated like shit now, yet I have to say I woudl MUCH rather live today than in the time of Christ as a woman. And I think you are being diluded and ignorant about the women thing. But hey, you are entitled to your beliefs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #342 on: May 25, 2005, 09:45:00 PM »
You know, there are plenty of places in the world a woman can go today if she wants to be treated like she would have been from 100 BC to 100 AD.

Hasidic communities would be a good approximation.

The Amish are, of course, way too modern and liberal for the purpose.

I would think anyone *not* being disingenuous about the way she wanted to be treated would move to one of those places.

On the other hand, I suspect some of the "how women are treated" objections have to do with how *other* women are treated---namely, that we can make choices that certain other people don't approve of.

Call me crazy, but being sold off by my dad to some rapist for one to half a dozen cows just doesn't appeal to me.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #343 on: May 25, 2005, 10:09:00 PM »
I agree Tim. And thats my point. Why would one (especially a woman) follow a religion that still believes these unjust things about women? We have freedom now (more or less) and can decide not to be treated like pooh. So why follow a religion that still follows that principle that women are a) not equal to men, and b) that man was made first, therefore men are more important to the bible. All women are to them is a biproduct of a man.

Actually that is one thing I like about the Wiccan religion. Very woman friendly. And earth friendly. Many Christians say this earth was made for us to use and therefore it is ok for us to mistret it if we choose to. I just dont agree with that.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #344 on: May 25, 2005, 10:32:00 PM »
Well I don't like the idea of being traded for cow either. But back then - having ones father offered something as vital and valuable as a cow for your hand was an indication of your great value.

Nor would I want to live way back when - not even 100 years back when. I like air conditioning and refrigerators and washing machines and hot running water, far to much to want to time travel to were these things didn't exist. Well, not to stay. If I could go visit, I would.

I used to think I might like the Amish life style - until I saw a documentary or two about them.
I like being able to vote and own property and all like that - but had I been living two thousand years ago, I expect I'd of had other things on my mind.

I expect, much depended on what kind of family one had - then as now. If your father, and later husband, were kind and considerate, it was probably not such a bad life. Just as now. If they were selfish pricks, it was no doubt a major problem, and hindrance to ones health and happiness- then as now.

But what I was talking about is degradation - the objectifying and de-humanizing of persons. I think we have more of that now, than what likely existed then, in the Judaic communities. I'm not dogmatic about this - I could be wrong.

I was also trying to point out to Amanda, some of the impressions she has on how women are depicted in the Bible are not based on actual scripture.
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