Author Topic: Didn't we all used to be friends?  (Read 25312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2005, 10:57:00 AM »
Hahaha..yeah make them do all the mataphors who all had to do..like for one girl carring a bag of rocks around..they could do that while they shovel the horse shit..lol :lol:

Well thank you for responding back honesty. I guess I didn't explain the money things very well.
First of all I didn't pay for the school my parents did, and were talking about an amount that could buy a house about $160,000. If you were my parents, and you paid all that money for me to get properly "medicated", and then I came out even more messed up, it wouldn't be something that you could just brush off. My parents were extremely angry with me, and even to this day we have problems and it's stems from way back then.

We never turlly discussed this entire MMS issue because I did not want to tell them that they had spent all that money for nothing. But now these recent times i've thought about it, and they deserve to know- and they deserve get that money back. I do not want them to feel the way they do towards me as if I am ungrateful <>. The fact that they used all that money on me, and it was rather useless, puts me in a position with them. Makes me look like the bad guy..and it has for about 5 years. I have 2 children now that my parents hardly visit, and it all stems from the whole issue...."I tried to help my daughter, I sent her away to a great program, I spent a great deal of money, and she doesn't even change. This is how she repays us?"
I think I would hold a grudge towards someone if I was willing to spend $160,000 help them, and they were never "willing" to be helped at all (thats what mission mountain school made it seem like). That is not the whole reality at all. What I described on my previous post is the truth. My family should not be going through all of these troubles. I believe that all of these matters needs to be resolved, and when they do it will be a hell a lof better for us. They could use that money towards something else..make them happy..and I will no longer be pointed out as the bad guy.
And I am sure the would be more willing to help me out now knowing the entire truth, but in the mantime they will continue to seperate themselves from me. and it can not be just handled with a simple conversation as to why I didn't chnage at that point time. They need to hear it from other people as well from profeesionals like lawyers etc.  

This not even the entire reason for the lawsuit, but it defenetly one of them. I just want to let you know that I was someone who was greatly punished at MMS, and the reason for my punishment wasn't even acknowledged to me (I can not tell you what it was because it would automatically reveal me) but just believe me when I tell you it was extremly unfair!

Also..I am starting to hate this whole abuse business. I am not claiming that I was abused daily or that anyone was abused on a daily basis. My story is a little different though, like i said. But when looking at the whole school in general I wouldn not call abusive either...it's something deeper..I would rather use something more like manipulative. This lawsuit is not all about abuse..somewhere along the line it got twisted around as that..it's what's right from wrong.I t's what didn't happen that should have happened, or what did, but shouldn't of. It's truths verses false. It's laws, or broken laws. It's the entire principle of things. it's a doctor claiming to be a doctor, but not actuaaly being one.

Let's not look at it from an "abusive" perspective there's to many measurements to abuse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Star

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2005, 10:59:00 AM »
the post above was written by me..so there is no confusion about anon... :wink: chao..tell me what u think.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
et God do the judging.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2005, 11:20:00 AM »
Star,  

   I give you a lot of credit for what you have written here and every where else. It's extremely helpful to me because I am a bit unsure about where to go on all of this. You've put my thoughts in words, and thank God someone can express themselves like you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Star

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2005, 11:41:00 AM »
The school could also change for the better and I would love to be involved in that. I am greatly interested in helping other people. I wish the school would work around "helping others helps you." I would have loved to do some charity work while I was there. I would have loved to be able to work with people less fortunate than myself, rather than always focusing on my issues. There are so many other useful ways to helps girls/and boys that does not have to revolve around extreme therapy-phsycho bable. Girls could have had more time to express themselves through their greatest interests. I was great at soccer, and I wish the school could have helped me persue that dream even further. The school could have taken a trip to a distant place, like South America, as an eye opener. They could run charities and other events. Instead of always focusing on the pasts they could have shown us girls how to embrace all parts of life so we could always have some where to turn to. Being focused on our problems didn't seem to always help. Therapy does not actually have to be therapy as in "talking about it". For me therapy is enjoying life and loving every aspect. Everything does not have to be analyzed..even a ski trip. I needed to learn how to love, and loving myself was most important. When I had fun at mms I felt like that too had to be analyzed. "just let it be, let everything, be", you don't need an explanation for everything.


This is another reason for the lawsuit..to make the school change for the better if possible..if John accepts it. What do you think you would do to change the school for the better?..all of your ideas could be added when the suit is filed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
et God do the judging.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #79 on: May 13, 2005, 12:03:00 PM »
Why don't you post on Kat's new forum?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Clymerchick

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #80 on: May 13, 2005, 02:17:00 PM »
Thanks for your clear explanation. It's good to see someone who doesn't agree with the school's practices, but isn't set on deeming everything abusive. Like I said before, I myself disagree with things that the school did, but don't consider any of it abusive. I like the way you put it:

"It's what didn't happen that should have happened, or what did, but shouldn't of. It's truths verses false. It's laws, or broken laws. It's the entire principle of things..."

The school has a lot of potential, has helped many girls, hindered others. I don't think that John and Colleen would mind shoveling their own horses shit, doubt it matters to them that much. While I as there we thought it as like we were giving back to him for what he was giving to us, at least I kind of saw it that way. I also liked doing work in general. I was one of those people that had fun loads of fun mauling wood with Doug, or always wanted to be a mower. You know what I mean.

Anyway, it seems like some people are upset about a lot of petty things about the school, but they add up to something greatly upsetting to some of you. I don't know what to say about it other  than I hope you find what really matters to you most: getting past the troubles it caused you, solving the problems for future girls, or somehow finding satisfaction in a lawsuit. Good luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
o matter what a person says, decent respect is all that I expect of eachother and myself. Lets be nice! \":)\"

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #81 on: May 13, 2005, 03:59:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-13 07:57:00, Anonymous wrote:

This lawsuit is not all about abuse..somewhere along the line it got twisted around as that..it's what's right from wrong.I t's what didn't happen that should have happened, or what did, but shouldn't of. It's truths verses false. It's laws, or broken laws. It's the entire principle of things. it's a doctor claiming to be a doctor, but not actuaaly being one.

Let's not look at it from an "abusive" perspective there's to many measurements to abuse.


You're absolutely right. You say the word "abuse" and people have very specific ideas what that means.

I don't know what your lawsuit is about, except the vague descriptions you have given. That's fine. That's nobody's business unless and until you make it so.

I can tell you what my idea is for the forums, though. it's about people claiming to be doctors or experts or professionals at anything from substance abuse to eating disorders who simply are not experts in those areas. Even the licensed, certified experts seem to not really have a handle on these issues. That's almost another issue entirely.

But these people running programs based on the Synanon method seem to have no clue how destructive their method is and even less interest in hearing about it. They don't set out to abuse and destroy people, I'm sure of that. But they can take those good intentions and $3.50 and get a nice cup of cappacinno at Starbucks for all I care. I think people ought to be able to find out the other side of the issue before they send their kids to these people for help.

War is God?s way of teaching Americans geography.

--Ambrose Bierce (died 1914)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #82 on: May 13, 2005, 04:35:00 PM »
John doesn't need to have a liscense to practice therapy---He is the ehad master of the school, and he was a teacher, not a thearapist---it alwasy felt much different in group with him rather then Gary.  Anyways,  just want to put that out there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #83 on: May 13, 2005, 09:00:00 PM »
Actually, you do need a licsense to practice "therapy", (which I'm pretty sure he has) but you dont' need a license to call yourself a "counselor".  Anyone can call themselve a "counselor".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #84 on: May 13, 2005, 09:31:00 PM »
Counselor? Therapist? What's the diff from the pov of a screwed 14yo kid?

I hate when the discussion comes down to maliable definitions.

If it's such a good idea to spill your guts and look for wisdome to a more-or-less random group of other fucked up teenagers, then what's wrong w/ gangs?


 :roll:

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals;  I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.  
-- A. Whitney Brown



_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Star

  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #85 on: May 13, 2005, 11:47:00 PM »
I am not trying to be malicious to any of you by saying this, but it's seems as though some of you are missing the point. If you think about the whole aspect of John's work......he did make himself out to be like a therapist..he analyzed us and told us what we were, and weren't, or atleast convinced us.
I have no right, no matter what type of leader I am or claim to be, to analize anyone or place judment upon them unless I am a proffesional because these things are very sensitive, and can cause great damage to people. But John was not a simple person like me. He was a person in charge of an entire school having clear influence on every single person there. Yes John was a very intelligent person. He was very powerful. But his direction in leadeship did not lead everyone towards the right road..and he should have made it clear to parents and even students that his way might not be the right way for everyone, but he made us believe "His way or no way at all."
I still feel like I keep on repeating myself. Please please look at this from all perspectives. As I would, you would, parents would, inspectors would,lawyers would, friends would, even GOD would.  After all he is my only judge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
et God do the judging.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #86 on: May 14, 2005, 04:58:00 PM »
Anonymous   
Posted: 2005-05-13 13:35:00    John doesn't need to have a liscense to practice therapy---He is the ehad master of the school, and he was a teacher, not a thearapist---it alwasy felt much different in group with him rather then Gary. Anyways, just want to put that out there.

     Group felt different with John because he was intimidating and unprofessional. John yelled at me more than any other girl while I was there. He told me I would end up a crazy homeless woman on the street if I didn't go on medication and stop questioning the schools methods. I never trusted him for a second, because someone who does not support open communication of the thoughts and feelings people have about the community they live in, is clearly bent on control. These are methods used all throughout history to keep people from overthrowing thier rule. These tactics are the same as those used by Moa Ze Dong, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and George W. Bush. Obviously the intensity of the tactic is scaled down a lot, since instead of being punished with death or jail time, we had to do physical labor and be yelled at, which still sucks but not nearly as bad.
     The point is, scaring children with threats of isolation, physical labor, or even the promise of a dead end future is wrong, whether you consider that abuse or not, it's wrong. I was not made to work for hours in sub-zero weather simply because I had a lesson to learn, it was more so to keep me from critisizing the school again, it was to make an example of me. John wanted to make a clear, direct correlation between questioning your superiors and  misery and pain.
     I completely understand how some of you still hold on to the idea that Mission Mountain was not corrupt. When you hear something enough, you begin to internalize it. Didn't they always used to tell us that? I even had a hard time seeing through thier facade at times, but when I told people at home about some of the things that went on there, I could see a look of pure disgust on thier faces, because unless you've been convinced over and over for two years that that MMS was a wonderful place, there is no way you could believe it. That is the most dangerous part about MMS, they say they treat thier students better than all the other boarding schools because thier supportive of your growth and personal recovery. But a man on the street who yells at you then tells you to get in his car is much less dangerous than one that lures you in with candy and a sweet smile.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2005, 01:24:00 AM »
The point is, scaring children with threats of isolation, physical labor, or even the promise of a dead end future is wrong, whether you consider that abuse or not, it's wrong.

Posted by anon above...

I was scared before John ever started talking or raising his voice to get his point across.  All three of these consequences taught me more then talking about how I am hyper sensitive and people need to realize this so I can live my life better....

Life scared me and beleive it or not these were metaphors for my life to help us. He never promised me a dead future probable because I figured that was a given.

Life gets cold.....ANd we need to keep going

Life is painful......that doesn't mean that I get to just check out from my life.

Life is full of shit.... SO keep dealing with it.

Life is lonely........And I deal with this stuff everyday....

I don't disagree with your perception... I disagree, with you claiming this abuse and no one can say that it isn't because to me....It wasn't and it isn't...

I was worried that MMS was harmful, especially about a year after I got out.  I was pissed off.  And I had to work through this stuff on my own, with my new community.  It was really hard, because no one understood my experience, and I was unable to really ever tell anybody the whole story, because there was no way I could.  And I realized after I get through stuff like this every time I relearn, that MMS, challenged me, and helped me to appreciate life and the world, through this stuff that is being called abuse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2005, 05:50:00 AM »
Read the posts of the horrible experiences some had at MMS and you can clearly understand why it would be considered abuse by anyone! Anyone who is not brainwashed by MMS and others like them, that is. Just like the person above said, when she told people in her community some of the things she experienced, people who have never been under the "spell" of these programs, they all agreed what she described was abuse.

You may not have suffered abuse, good for you. But some others did and to discount what they experienced is again plain wrong. Why would you want to make people feel they need to defend their postition? It's rediculous and hurtful.

Abuse is abuse, no matter how your slice it. Funny, when I was a kid my mom never thought I was abused by my dad. She would simply not accept it. No matter how many times I told her he would beat me with a belt she just said it was normal spanking and tell me to get over it. She did not want to face it, plain and simple. We have gone around and around about this issue many times during my lifetime because it is very difficult not to be heard when you know something that happened to you was abusive.

Intersting thing happened. Recently my sister-in-law divorced my brother and is dating. My niece and nephew don't particularly like this guy nor do they get along. My mother is worried because he yelled at my nephew once.

I asked my mother if she would think it was abusive and what she would do if this new guy would take my niece, put her across the bed, panties down, and beat her repeatedly with a belt. Would you consider that abuse, mom? Now, seeing it this way, yes, she said, and apologized for the many years I felt I could not get my point across. I just wanted her to acknowledge it happened, that it was abuse, and it would have made it easier to move on.

Do I spend my life worrying about it? No. Have I for all these years? No. Do I want people to challenge me when I say I was abused? NO!!

So stop, everyone, challenging those who were abused at MMS. To them that is what it was, you cannot convince them otherwise. Just as no one could ever convince me that I was not abused as a child. Emotional and phsychological abuse can leave more scars than physical abuse, so they say. It is far more recognized today than ever before.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Didn't we all used to be friends?
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2005, 11:11:00 AM »
Please quit calling those of us who had a good experience there "brainwashed".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »