What do you know about brainwashing?

[the other anonymous]

In a recent thread someone said that they read that brainwashing can take twenty years to wear off.  Now I can't find that post, but I am starting a new thread with this question:  What do you know about brainwashing?  I would love to hear personal as well as intellectual, research perspectives.  If you have found a book or a website that you think has good information, please list that here as well.  If you spent time with a "professional" working this out, or in the woods, or anything, please talk about that as well if you can.

[ramprato]

Well may favorite book is called "Rape of the Mind", I found it at my local library. And my favorite cult expert is Dr. Margaret Singer who writes about the conditions of mind control.  http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions

As far as therapy goes, yes I do it, but I spend a lot of my time comparing my experiences with Straight, and the writings of these authors who are mind control experts. The things Singer writes about relate 100% to Straight and what they did to us. Singer actually was someone who testified as a cult expert in a Cincinnati Straight abuse lawsuit.
*At this link, toward the bottom, Wes talks briefly about Dr. Singer's involvement in testimonies that helped close Straight Inc. down:

http://thestraights.com/referrals/attor ... rneys1.htm

Here's an interesting link where Singer writes criticizing cult apologists who proclaim the "rebuilding" methods they use on their members are the same used on United States Marines, Wes also does an interesting comparison himself:)

http://thestraights.com/marines.htm

Hope all this helps you.

Take care....Ken




[ This Message was edited by: ramprato on 2002-10-30 05:14 ]

[kosmonaut]

Speaking of the military... After I left Straight, I ended up in a boy's ranch out in the boonies of south GA.  When I turned 17 I was given the choice of staying another year at the ranch, or going into the military.  Naturally (perhaps foolishly) I picked the military.  

My training lasted 15 weeks (cavalry scout) and it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done.  I don't remember there being any kind of "brainwashing" in the military.  I was there by my own decision, we were allowed contact with our family and friends, allowed to read, watch tv, listen to music, eat what we felt like eating, etc.  

It was definitely not even close to the kind of brainwashing we got at Straight.

[Anonymous]

I know nothing about brainwashing except that it happened to me. I didn't realize it until I was outside the clutches of the program.

I went to some hick college up in the mountains and tried to live in the dorm about 6 mos after getting out. I totally wigged out over smelling beer and pot and seeing girls hanging on guys, in other words, experiencing the real world again, I just couldn't handle it. Sat in a corner of that cinderblock cubicle covered my head and rocked. When I realized something bad was happening in my head, that the real world went against my programming...I had to get out and think it thru in quiet no distractions. So I climbed over the nearest mountain to the 2d ridge and decided that's where I needed to stay for a while to sort it all out.

I remember saying to myself You are f***ed up. I went over the things I'd learned in straight.  boys are bad all those girls are sluts and druggies  they drink and smoke god it smelled good oh shit I'm relapsing I dont wanna be like that any more. On and on thru my sick head.
I had no support system and visions of Jim S. starting me over, yanking me from college. Straight was ruining my life again. It was a sick time and I knew it. I realized that I'd been brainwashed and used that term.

I built a debris hut to live and thanked God for the trees and the mountains and the quiet. No doors, windows or locks. This was the real world and I was in it. I had to cope. Straight was wrong. But not about everything. I kept up the classes, even made dean's list. It was cold and I had to study in the library for light and warmth and I had lots of time for thinking. I showered in the gym and swam laps in the pool and ran up and down the mountains everyday thinking. I went into the dorm for measured doses of reality and then back up to the hut to think about it. Wasn't ready to sleep there yet. People thought I was weird - duh- called me dirtclod. Slipped in the rain one morning and slid down a steep slope at the edge of the compound on my butt and got real muddy, twigs in the hair and all.

In the meantime I learned to talk to real people again. Sit next to a guy in class. My face would get hot 'cause I was out and started thinking normal stuff for 20. That turned out to be another set of straight-related problems.

I went to AA for some sobriety support. They helped me get over the wierdness without my having to give details. I didn't want to talk about it. I just wanted to listen and make up my own mind for a while. Didn't want anybody making up my mind for me again. I make the choices, I live with the consequences of all of my choices. Nobody else.

After 11 mos I came back down. Spent the last 3 weeks in the dorm. I found I could hang without feeling upset inside. They're just people doing what people do, afterall. So am I, I'm just doing something else.

It took a while but I think that's when I really snapped out of it.
Trish

[LIFE 82]

Thats the problem with rich people.They run off from thier fancy college dorm for a little camping r&r.Try living in the "hut" with no bank account,dorm,laughing people around.I am totaly destitute with no prospect of college,job,medical care,etc.I was sent to local chairity the other day to pick up some free clothes.When I got there I found NO clothes.I was offered a t-shirt and some filthy used shoes but all of the pants was green or candy stripe golf pants for a fat person (faith based my ass)or a wrinkeled ill fitting 3 piece suit from some dead guy of 1952.I am not welcome at my local library,grocery store,counciling center and I have no fancy dorm to "rock to and fro" in the corner.I think I may have been held captive even longer in the program but for my parents are poor people.People make fun of me because of the mud and twigs in my hair but that is how I look every day.

[METALGOD8]

That was me that posted that statement recently. Most likely on the yoohoo site. I apologize for sounding rediculous, but were you in Straight, Inc? I am curious now, because there was so much brainwashing going on that I find it hard to believe that you need proof or further explanation. I will answer your question, however, based on my experience at Springfield and hopefully my answer will ring some bells and you will understand. I have not seen a psychiatrist or doctor since leaving that place. Except for having my finger reattached, of course.'
Do you remember Rational Self Mastery? Think rational, Think Rational, Think Rational... and so on and so on. Uhm, OK, "How do you feel about that?" 689,344,289 times. "Talk about yourself, not others" No TV, No Radio, No school, stupid ass rules that, over time, wear on the human psyche and become ingrained as actual beliefs. When I was in there, I was 21 and not so easily convinced, but eventually became a (shhh, dont tell anyone...) straightling, so much that I 7th stepped. To this day, I catch myself saying "I feel like shit, or I feel tired, WHAT? Tired? THAT IS NOT A FEELING! HAVE A SEAT! LOL... Or, I will speak at another person about what I do,.. like this: "You put the acid in the water, not the other way around.">>>ooops, I'm sorry, "I put the......"  Heaven forbid I should refer to myself as "you". It is only in all the English books. I guess english teachers never went to straight inc. It has been 19.5 years, so I figure it still affects me. I read about this bullshit on brainwashing on the internet, of all places. LOL. I put in Brainwashing in the search box on AOL and got about a million links. You know, I would be suprised if we weren't some godawful experiment victims of Mel Sembler and his partners. They couldn't use LSD to coerce us, so they used warehouses and flourescent lights.   Which branch were you in?   MG8

[the other anonymous]

Thanks Ken for your as usual thoughtful response!  I hope to meet you in person one day.  I will look for Margaret Singer's book.

Thank you Anonymous.  I too find solace in the woods.

Thank you Life 82.  I have been in your shoes.  I have been hungry and homeless, but I think the worst is being ostracized.  If it wasn't for a relative I might well have continued down.  I got bailed out.  (People who say "money isn't everything" have plenty.)

[LIFE 82]

I dont hate you because you are rich,it probobly contributed to your abuse.I think The People should know that being poor makes it nearly impossible to get ANY kind of help.I have many doctors that will help me for $100usd per hour.If my family were rich then I would have stayed longer in the program.Funny how that works.Kind of gives me sympathy for our beloved President.You know what it must have been for him being in a rich family and having to receive no love.Did you ever see him young?His family threw money at him just to keep him away.Yes that is a kind of abuse too.After many years of drug abuse he finaly found a way to gain accecptance from his father.You know the rest.....

[the other anonymous]

Hmmn for some reason I resent that you question whether I was in Straight.  Well, whatever, I will get over it, after I go eat a half gallon of ice cream.

Okay, I'm back now.  Anyway, YES, I WAS in Straight.

I don't see why asking about brainwashing is such a dumb question.  The thing I noticed here on the board, as well as within myself, is recrimination for the things we did while in Straight, or how we acted and believed afterward.  I think that if I totally understood that I was brainwashed, then I totally wouldn't feel bad about having been duped.  It would not have been my fault.  But I look back and often feel humiliated at the way I was.  

I think the other side to the brainwashing thing is, how do you get un-brainwashed?  I feel like I have been walking in a fog ever since I was in there.  Slowly, so slowly, the fog is thinning out so I can see.  Some things I got over years back, like the belief that I was an alcoholic/addict.  How could I possibly have known, having spent maybe a year and a half doing the teenage experimentation thing before Straight?  I quit going to 12-step meetings, did some drinking and marijuana smoking, and still do occasionally.  I can go for years at a time between drinks or smokes (although after your earlier comment I may have to go on a bender) -- which doesn't seem to me to be the pattern of an addicted person.  

But, I was going to say, the other part is the feeling that I am nobody.  Very pervasive for years and years.  I am nobody and I don't know what I want and I feel sad.  This is not how my high school friends turned out.

[LIFE 82]

When you were in the program you may have felt alone.But now through the miricle of website,you can read testimony from other that think and feel EXACTLY THE WAY YOU DO NOW!Thats all the proof I need.We must have all hallucinated the same thing,right?

[METALGOD8]

In order to unbrainwash yourself, time has to pass, your thoughts including the straight lingo, philosophy, etc. will fade. It may take a conscious effort on your part, not something like subliminal messages at night while you sleep. Some of the effects will remain until our bodies expire, which leads me to think that this could be a main cause of so many straight, inc suicides. I have been on the side of success and lately, unsuccess. Normal people have that problem too. That's just life. There shouldn't have to be a reason why all the time, or at least you shouldn't worry about why so much.
I have a habit of invoking controversy amongst others, I apologize. I never intend to do that, but sometimes it happens anyway. I don't really mind talking about brainwashing, I just wonder if I can help, you know, being a fellow recipient of this mind control therapy. Maybe we will meet at the conference next year, or the 1st annual bonfire, and can discuss over hot coffee or whatever. Happy Halloween, MG8

[the other anonymous]

thanks what a sweet reply.  I was only kidding about eating ice cream and going on a bender you know.

Are we really having a bonfire?

[enough]

Here is long list of good resource material for those truly interested in learning about the process of coercive thought reform.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.phtml4 ... &forum=7&0

[kaydeejaded]

Bonfire sounds good.
I really did feel for many years that no one understood at all what the hell I went through for those 13months at Straight. When I finally typed the words into the computer and all this shit came up 14 years afterwards I cried. nobody understood or believed what I had gone through. Sadly what I went through although awful was not the worst for those unfortunate souls in the program. I know some people question the reason for this forum sometimes but just knowing that it was real was so cathartic for me. It was finally the yes it happened it was real no one doubted it. I wrote Scott W and Ginger frantic e-mails not believing I had found someone who "knew" who understood. That was something I thought I would never have. Straight was something out of the nightmares of children and these people they run our country.