Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse

[Anonymous]

More on this photo of the hobbit - is there a link to this photo - I'd like to send a copy of it to my friends and encourage them to write letters in support of George Miller's bill.

[Anonymous]

My child wasleft in the hobbit.When I showed him that picture that came across the internet  I was furious he had been into that enviornment.He said that the family rep told him many times that I knew he was in there.I had no concept of such a shit hole. Other parents who I had gone to parent support groups with who had visited their kid at SCL told me the kids in the hobbit were smiling,happy .I now wonder if they ever really saw the place or if they too were proficient liars.

Its wrong to put a kid in that enviorment it made my child have a breakdown.Inexcusable. I despise them for their lies.I despise them for what they do to kids.  I should have gone and seen for myself.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-23 18:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"More on this photo of the hobbit - is there a link to this photo - I'd like to send a copy of it to my friends and encourage them to write letters in support of George Miller's bill."

Right click the photo, click 'save image as' and then you can share the photo via email, etc.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-24 00:31:00, Exit Plan wrote:

It was tempting to scream out for help, but it would have fallen on deaf ears.

A-men!

O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist

[cherish wisdom]

This is why these programs need to be opened up to the public. They need to have pay phones availale for student use and parents and children need to be able to freely communicate without another person listening into the conversation. There should be visiting hours daily for at least an hour and for more hours on the weekend.  Some emergency measures are needed now.  

I just spoke to a family who sent their daughter to Casa By the Sea because they actually thought it was a boarding school.  They cried when talked about how they weren't able to talk to her for three months.  

How on earth does this type of policy bring families closer together? The girl who went there has some repressed memories.  She did say that they spend alot of time sitting in a chair.  

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]

[Nihilanthic]

Cherish - I know a kid with ASPERGERS who was sent to CASA thinking it was a really helpful school.

How the FUCK is a PROGRAM going to 'treat' AUTISM?

Patient memoirs are a kind of protest literature like slave narratives or witness testimonies.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&q=G.A.Hornstein&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web' target='_new'>G.A.Hornstein

[Anonymous]

This is from a news article about the PURE v WWASP court case.

"John France testified that his child was kept in a small, cold structure without adequate heat or food at WWASP?s Spring Creek Lodge. The temperature was so cold that the orange his son has stowed away was frozen by morning. His child had to urinate in his drinking cup in the night. Mr. France?s child was forced into the ?Hobbit? at WWASP?s Spring Creek Lodge for almost nine months. His son had scratched the words, ?Let Freedom Ring? on one of the shelves where he slept during his ordeal."

Look closely at the picture, at the top, and you can see the words he carved. He also carved his name as you can see. Somewhat corraborates the story, wouldn't you say? So, to whoever started explaining the hobbit was heated and not as bad as it seems, shut the fuck up- you have no idea what you are talking about. Oranges don't freeze when the heater is working/on.

And just in case any hard core program supporters stop by, I hope this amuses you as much as me:

"Robert Lichfield was observed smiling in the corner of the Salt Lake federal courtroom, while WWASP lawyers were observed laughing in the presence of the federal jury."

::stab::

[cherish wisdom]

I was just wondering if this family who testified ever reported this to the authorities or filed suit against them.  This is so outrageous and inhumane - much worse than prison.

Being a street cop, witnessing the tragedy firsthand, I've become
convinced that drug prohibition -- not drugs themselves -- are driving the HIV epidemic and the systemic crime that has swamped our criminal justice systems.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

[Perrigaud]

Anonymous. Believe what you want to. The program does not run my life as it does others. It has helped me. Disservice? No, I see no reason in bullshitting anyone? I tell it as I experienced it. Make no mistake I saw takedowns. What you don't understand is that not every single program experience is the exact same. We are not either completely brainwashed 100% for the program or 100% against the program. I see both sides. I see it's faults and it's gains. Strip searched? I didn't get that. I didn't other's probably did. Those girls that were taken down were a threat to themselves or others. Child abuse? Ok so let's let them abuse others. That's no problem right? Get real. 100% for the program? Believe what you want. Harming others? Nope, the truth is that it has helped me. This is my personal experience. I'm not gonna lie so you can feel better about your misfortunate experience. I am not a liar. That is why I have admitted to both the positive and negatives. Good luck with what you believe in. Just as you will fight for what you think is right as will I. I will not succumb to your false accusations. Why must things be black and white with a lot of you people? Did you ever think that grey was present?

Antigen: Demerits were given out to someone who didn't comply. It wasn't as if some girl would stare out the window and after being told not to do so for the 5th time was tackled by staff. She'd just end up with less points and possibly a visit to worksheets.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-04-26 04:32:00, Perrigaud wrote:

"Anonymous. Believe what you want to. The program does not run my life as it does others. It has helped me. Disservice? No, I see no reason in bullshitting anyone? I tell it as I experienced it. Make no mistake I saw takedowns. What you don't understand is that not every single program experience is the exact same. We are not either completely brainwashed 100% for the program or 100% against the program. I see both sides. I see it's faults and it's gains. Strip searched? I didn't get that. I didn't other's probably did. Those girls that were taken down were a threat to themselves or others. Child abuse? Ok so let's let them abuse others. That's no problem right? Get real. 100% for the program? Believe what you want. Harming others? Nope, the truth is that it has helped me. This is my personal experience. I'm not gonna lie so you can feel better about your misfortunate experience. I am not a liar. That is why I have admitted to both the positive and negatives. Good luck with what you believe in. Just as you will fight for what you think is right as will I. I will not succumb to your false accusations. Why must things be black and white with a lot of you people? Did you ever think that grey was present?

Typical WWASPie bullshit. You are not really capable of anything else, are you?
I feel sorry for you. You were a normal person once, with real feelings and thoughts and opinions. (Yes, I know what you're going to say-- "I was horrible! I was so horribly messed up! I was insane! I was a danger to society! I deserved everything that happened to me at CCM!"- but this being just more of the same program bullshit, I do not find these assertions at all credible). Your personality, your way of thinking, all of it has been demolished by WWASP.

And now you post on message boards in defence of those who murdered your soul and the souls of thousands of other children. You use longer sentences and different words to post the same programmed lies I heard so many times. You are a liar, although you don't intend to lie. You truly do believe your own lies. And that's sad.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-26 04:32:00, Perrigaud wrote:

Antigen: Demerits were given out to someone who didn't comply. It wasn't as if some girl would stare out the window and after being told not to do so for the 5th time was tackled by staff. She'd just end up with less points and possibly a visit to worksheets.

What if she didn't do the worksheets. What if she talked to other girls on level one? What if she refused the strip search? What if she insisted on using the phone or, God forbid, complained out loud about the way she were being treated or suggested to others that they shouldn't have to be treated that way either?

Why must things be black and white with a lot of you people? Did you ever think that grey was present?

Yeah, there are shades of gray. And that's actually what I'm most interested in discussing at this point. For example, what is the difference between out of control, unreasonable behavior justifying a take down and a normal, healthy, self defensive response to harassment? I'll tell you exactly where I'm coming from. I saw a lot of takedowns in my program. And, at the time, I bought into the apologia, at least to some extent. Not that I thought it was alright to poke and prod and harass a kid till they lost their temper and then punish them for responding like a normal kid. Just that I figured everyone else had as much self control as I did, so they must have chosen the violent route for whatever reason. Turns out that wasn't the case at all. And I suspect CCM is just the same.

Another kid describes a scene where he was tackled by several adults for trying to make it to the payphone to call his parents. Is that out of line w/ your take on how things go at CCM? Do you think that's a reasonable way to respond to a kid trying to get to a phone? Especially since the adults[sic] must have known that the damned thing didn't work anyway.

Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Anonymous]

I would like some real information on how it is at CC. In worksheets you can't touch your hair or make eye contact is that correct? You listen to motivational tapes for hours, you use crayon to write home with your not allowed or priviledged to write home with a regular pen. That's what I was told by one of the students recently. For passing a note with phone numbers, they got worksheets staff buddy, she also dropped a couple of levels, and she chose to be on silence for three weeks,I was told that she lost alot of respect from the other girls and the threapist didn't want anything to do with her either. What are the rooms like? Does anyone know if any of the rooms have mold? I would like to hear from anyone that has been there in the last year or two. Anybody out there? Please share what you know.

[Deborah]

Are Public Displays of Affection punished? They are at other W programs:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2695&forum=9

[`]

I am tuning in here on page 8. I am upset by the photo and story at the top of the page. I am stunned by the post that follows that one. Perrigaud, how can you even have one word of apology for an institution that would do such a thing to a child? And how can you post that program-apology immediately following the post with the photo of The Hobbit and the information that this kid was kept there for nine months? I think I will start worrying about you, I mean it. I think it might not be easy when you start to figure things out. I have been through various phases of belief and understanding in the eighteen years since I was in Straight. I escaped a great deal of the direct physical abuse. But now I see one girl in my mind who was "marathoned" -- taken to a tiny windowless room and yelled at or worse for several days. I worry about her. There is nothing good in an institution that abuses children as a matter of course, not one thing. I have heard that being a witness to abuse is also traumatizing. Maybe you don't want to know. I think people should not be angry with you. I hope my words don't sound harsh. Even if people disagree strongly with you, I think some of us can understand why you might be saying the things you are saying.

[RN on Board]

Some people don't look farther than their own nose.  For this girl - she claims the program helped her - OK - that's great.  But one must look beyond their own selfcentered world.  These institutions do not abuse ALL chidren.  They do abuse those who may be "difficult" or those who don't break down as easily as others do.  Some of those who are difficult may have an underlying mental illness. There are laws in place to protect the mentally ill from ABUSE.  Perrigaurd should look up US CODE Title 42 section 112 and 114 - and look at the LAW.  The law is there to protect those who suffer from mental illness.  It is abusive to place a child in a lock down for weeks or months at a time.

Cross Creek is in Utah. Utah does have some rules for all residential programs - They are called CORE RULES.  One of the rules requires a licensed psychiatrist to write an ORDER for isolation that exceeds 4 hours. The isolation must never interfere with sleeping time.  So if a child is in a punishment cell for more than 4 hours - then the law has been broken.  The law is there to prevent ABUSE.  If a child is in the lockdown to sleep - then the law has been broken and again - abuse has occured.  

These facilities do not allow contact with the outside world and most children in them are not aware of the laws that are in place to protect them from abuse.

Cross Creek is an abusive facility because they break Utah law and Federal law everytime they excessively isolate a child.  They break the law when they are cruel to emotionally and mentally ill youth.  This happens all of the time.  

Perri - you need to look beyond your nose and realize that Cross Creek is an abusive facility.  Just because you believe they helped you - does not mean they did not abuse and neglect others. As a result - these people will suffer mental anquish for years to come.

Please don't come here and sing praises to Cross Creek - it's a den of horror and abuse for many.