Author Topic: Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse  (Read 19510 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2005, 10:27:00 AM »
What I think Perri is saying is that we are all different.  My sister and I were raised with the same rules, same parents, same dicipline.  My sister will say they were abusive.  I will swear to you we had loving but strict parents.  What some "feel" as abuse others see as correction.
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2005, 12:23:00 PM »
I don't think any of us have a problem with a raging kid being placed in a proper isolation room until he or she has calmed down.

What we *do* have problem with is children or adolescents being placed in isolation rooms that are substantially deviant from 72 deg. F. and/or with a floor temperature substantially deviant from same, and forced to assume specific physical positions--facing a wall, lying on the floor, etc. for hours at a time with only short breaks to stretch, with the isolation placement continuing for days at a time.

In an isolation room, there is no excuse for not going outside the door and leaving the kid to pace or rage or whatever so long as he/she isn't banging his/her head on the walls or floor.

Bipolar rages are the longest rages anybody has.  Nobody rages longer than a bipolar, trust me.  A bipolar rage lasts four to five hours.  Nobody else has the emotional energy to sustain a raging fit for that long.

There is absolutely no excuse for keeping an adolescent in isolation longer than six hours before slowly returning him or her to a low-stress, low-stimulation, quiet, *pleasant*, un-isolated environment.

You don't calm a raging kid down by treating them like shit.

It doesn't matter what a "spoiled brat" or "rotten monster" the kid is.  You can have an art room with art charcoal, art paper, and soft music that the kids get certain amounts of time in, that you can use to transition a kid from isolation back into the general population.

I know from calming irrational and destructive rages.  I have bipolar disorder, I parent a child with bipolar disorder.  We have the worst rages there are when we're not stable, there's nothing you can tell me about calming a rage that I don't already know.

But these programs want to be such hard-asses that they'd think waiting for an end to an immediate rage and then transitioning a kid back in through a low-stimulus social environment was mollycoddling them.

So they abuse them instead.

Yes, I sure as hell *do* think that even if you threw a table at somebody you should *only* have been in isolation in a comfortable-temperatured room, with padded walls and floor, and left to pace and rage until you ran out of steam---which you would have in less than five hours, guaran-damn-teed.

Then you needed to be moved back into the normal social routine of the institution---which needed to be not so horrible as to provoke rage in a saint (and I don't just mean a garden-variety mormon).  And you needed to be moved back in through an appropriate transition environment.

The transition environment needs to have been an available option the staff could direct students to as a normal part of conflict de-escalation efforts before an overwrought kid ever got to the point of exploding in rage.

When you go out of your way to put people in an absolutely miserable, utterly intolerable environment, barren of all beauty and joy, barren of all positive emotional support, D'oh!  They explode in rage at the slightest trigger.  That's normal and human and not the fault of the raging person, it's the fault of the people who put that person in an inhumane, neglectful environment.

There should be *NO* phase that doesn't include something positive, pleasant, beautiful, or joyful as part of the everyday experience *merely for being a human being*.  Maybe the parents and facility are right if they say the particular kid isn't a very good human being, maybe they're wrong---but you ought to get one positive, joyful, pleasant, or beautiful thing a day not as a reward, and not susceptible to being taken away for bad behavior, but merely because you're a human being.

If you put people in intolerable circumstances, which the "level" programs very deliberately do, rage is a normal, human, healthy response. What *wouldn't* be a healthy response would be passively laying down and taking being put in those circumstances---which is the response the kids get beaten down into before they're allowed to "advance" a level.

I don't mind us putting Charles Manson on the guerney and giving him the needle and burying the bastard, but as long as he *is* alive even the worst human being in the world---and he's certainly the worst one I can think of---deserves to have at least one good thing to look forward to each day, not because he's anything other than a rotten monster, but because he's a fellow human being, however horrible of one he is.

To deprive a *child* of one single solitary beautiful or pleasant or genuinely joyful thing to look forward to in a day is a monstrous act that places the perpetrators in the same league with every monstrous child abusing felon rotting in jail across the country.

It could be something as simple as desert, a chance to choose and listen to *one* popular song, twenty minutes in a comfortable chair curled up with a book (with a bookmark and access to the *same* book subsequent days until the kid is through with it--because I know some sadistic slimeball would twist it so the kid could *start* a book, but would then have to toe the line to get          to read more of the *same* book), five minutes petting a dog or a cat, a game of cards with a couple of friends----something simple and good.

Everybody should wake up in the morning with *something* to look forward to that day.

Anger is not a useless, negative emotion.

Pain is not a useless, negative feeling.

Pain is a warning from our bodies or minds that we are suffering harm or in imminent danger of suffering harm if we don't get away from the danger.

Anger is a warning that some entity or group is harming us or trying to harm us.

Rage is anger combined with a sense of helplessness, and suppressed until it explodes.

The teen inmates' anger at the facility personnel is a normal reaction to the psychological harm they are doing to the teen by *deliberately* putting him/her in a situation where he/she gets up each morning without a single, solitary *good* thing to look forward to that day.

Learned helplessness as a replacement for anger and rage is not *progress*.  It's severe psychological *damage*.

And that wilful or negligent (doesn't really matter which) damage to the teen's long-term psychological health is some of the first child abuse perpetrated on the teen in the program facility.

I haven't heard anybody yet, from *any* WWASPS program, list a single good thing they could unfailingly look forward to each and every day, that was *NOT* in any way conditional on their behavior, that would *NOT* be withdrawn no matter what---that they could look forward whether they were in intake or on the lowest level or in OP or in the infirmary---no matter where they were, *ONE* specific positive thing that they could absolutely count on having happen to them that day.

So you can tell me all day you weren't abused or didn't consider it abuse or that abuse is a subjective concept.

Abuse certainly *is* a subjective concept.  CULTURALLY and SOCIETALLY subjective.

Abusers never consider what they did abuse.

SOCIETY defines abuse.  WWASPS doesn't get to get together in its little cult and define abuse and neglect all by itself to whatever it wants those definitions to be or thinks they should be.

Our larger society's standards and community standards---community standards being the community standards of the US as a whole or those of the child's *HOME* state--not the state or country the facility is in------*WE* define what abuse is.

*WE* being the rest of America.  Not me alone, not you and the little cult you got stuck in, the American people decide what is and isn't abuse.

And by those community standards, what happens at level-system program facilities *IS* child abuse.

To the lady who says she and her sister differ as to whether their parents were strict or abusive---the one of you whose opinions on your parents' behavior coincides with what the general American public would think, whether abusive or "strict", is the one who's right.

This is not a situation where neither of you is right or you're both right.

If the general American opinion would be that it was abuse, then it *was* abuse.

If the general American opinion would be that they wouldn't have wanted your parents prosecuted for it or you kids pulled from the home, but that it was too harsh, then your sister is still justified in being upset about it.  And while you might not consider yourself abused, in that situation it would be unreasonable to think she *shouldn't* be upset.

If the general American opinion would be that your parents were normal and reasonable, even if on the strict side of normal and reasonable, then your sister isn't being reasonable.

But it's NOT just a morally relative matter of opinion where your opinion and your sister's opinion are equally valid just because they're opinions.

When you parent within a society, you have a responsibility to at least meet that society's minimum community standards for proper and loving care and raising and discipline of your children.

If your parents did, they did.  If they didn't, they didn't.  And unless they were right on the borderline between acceptable and unacceptable, one of you is right and the other one is wrong.

Abuse is subjective *FOR THE SOCIETY*.

Abuse is *NOT* subjective for the perpetrators and the victims.  Parents know damned well when they are breaching society's norms.  Facilities know damned well when they are breaching society's norms, which is why they hide in other countries and hide behind locked doors, and hide the ownership trails of their facilities, and hide whether they're affiliated with themselves or not.

Parents and facilities demonstrate an Awareness of Guilt.

And children in society have a right to expect that they will be cared for *AT LEAST* in accord with the minimum expectations that society has as norms for the care of children.

One of the reasons children have the right to that minimum is that we as a society make provisions for parents who *CANNOT* provide that minimum.  We have social services--like AFDC and Medicare and Public Schooling, and when those aren't enough, we have a foster care system where we endeavor, not always perfectly, to see that kids get *at least* that minimum acceptable care---and better if we can manage it.

Which is why society is justified in punishing parents and facilities that wilfully put a child in a situation that we deem to be harmful or neglectful *by our own societal standards*.

We've provided a safety net--not always a perfect one, but still a substantial safety net---for the parents who *can't* meet the standards.

*Won't* is not an option.  We're entirely justified in removing kids and punishing perpetrators for *won't*.

So if your parents' behavior wasn't so close to the borderline of unacceptable that most reasonable people would at least sympathize with your sister, one of the other of you is wrong.

It's a matter of opinion, yeah---but it's not a matter of *YOUR* opinion.  Or hers.

Timoclea

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[ This Message was edited by: Timoclea on 2005-04-22 09:34 ]
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Offline Antigen

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Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2005, 12:32:00 PM »
Perri, you've said before that you can't see how anyone could be harmed by the seminars. Then I read this:

Quote
From K Adams' essay on CCM
The infamous T.A.S.K.S. seminars & group "processes" were especially hurtful to me.  One of my "issues" that I had to deal with at Cross Creek was childhood sexual abuse.  It happened when I was 11 years old, and I had never really dealt with the trauma at that point.  During one of the Focus "processes," (which I have been sworn to secrecy never to tell about) I was physically held down by four other Cross Creek girls (high phase girls who were seminar staff) while a fifth girl screamed into my face that "HE'S ON TOP OF YOU AGAIN!!! AREN'T YOU GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?? ARE YOU JUST GOING TO LET HIM DO IT TO YOU AGAIN?? WHAT KIND OF SLUT ARE YOU??" I was crying and screaming so hard that I could barely see - I kicked and thrashed as hard as I could, but the four other girls just kept pinning me down to the floor, and I was unable to get out from under them.  


And this sounds just exactly like something that might happen in Straight. And I know it comes from the same Synanon roots, as there are countless accounts of similar treatment in Synanon (the Game). These are not incidents that got out of hand and resulted in discipline of staff or change in policy. This IS the Program. This IS the Synanon method.

So then you say nothing like that ever happened in any of your seminars. And you say you never saw a take down except when a kid was actually hurting someone else. But damned near everyone else, even people who insist we should all just get over it and move on, acknowledge that takedowns happen for trivial incidents like walking through a door, looking out of a window or verbally disagreeing w/ staff.

In Straight, they always blamed the victim. They always said the kid was out of control before they got restrained. But, after awhile, you get used to the new reality that, right or wrong, if you turn your head at the wrong time, talk when not allowed, stand up w/o permission or any of a hundred other minor 'misbehaviors', you WILL get restrained. After awhile, it comes to seem perfectly normal and right. You don't "see" abuse when it happens right in front of you. That's brainwashing.



God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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Offline Deborah

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Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2005, 12:51:00 PM »
You left out a very important abuse- emotional/psychological.

Some would argue that being isolated from family and the world is abusive, not to mention... being told on a regular basis that your parents don't love you, you're a fuck up/addict/slut, you deserve and 'chose' your punishment, etc.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2005, 01:02:00 PM »
First I would like to say, with all personal beliefs set aside about the program, that I am deeply sorry that you had to go through such a thing when you were younger.  I will never say that I understand how you fee because that has never happened to me.  My girlfriend (a CCM graduate) was also sexually abused by her father when she was younger.  To me there are some things that are not forgiven, and that is one of them.  I will never speak to nor reffer to her father with any form of respect ever again.  With that said, during your Focus process, did it help?  While the tactics might not have been what you needed... and with all anger or distain set aside... did it help you?  I think that there are a couple ways of looking at this situation.  Please understand that I am a supporter of the program, but am not defended what happened right now.  I am mearly asking if what happened assisted you in becoming stronger so that something like that does not happen again.

Graduate
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2005, 01:03:00 PM »
Oh come on... when were you ever told you that your parents dont love you and that you were a slut... that is bullshit and you know it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2005, 01:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-22 10:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"First I would like to say, with all personal beliefs set aside about the program, that I am deeply sorry that you had to go through such a thing when you were younger.  I will never say that I understand how you fee because that has never happened to me.  My girlfriend (a CCM graduate) was also sexually abused by her father when she was younger.  To me there are some things that are not forgiven, and that is one of them.  I will never speak to nor reffer to her father with any form of respect ever again.  With that said, during your Focus process, did it help?  While the tactics might not have been what you needed... and with all anger or distain set aside... did it help you?  I think that there are a couple ways of looking at this situation.  Please understand that I am a supporter of the program, but am not defended what happened right now.  I am mearly asking if what happened assisted you in becoming stronger so that something like that does not happen again.



Graduate"


I'm not K. Adams, but I have to say that I think you're sick.

That girl was forced to re-experience an extremely traumatic event, and you ask if it HELPED her? Do you even realize how insane that sounds? Her past was used by the program to further traumatize and break her down, and you ask if it HELPED her become "stronger"?

You people already abuse children physically, emotionally, and medically in the name of your program. And now you twist the words and experiences of one of your victims to justify your crimes?

Shame on you.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2005, 01:49:00 PM »
Two good threads:
On Captivity, Isolation and Trauma
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#16936
On Speaking the Unspeakable
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#16339

Excerpt:
This passage is for those who may be considering a program for your teen, or those who have experience the captivity, isolation and trauma associated with programs.

The following are responses from trauma expert, Dr. Judith Herman in an interview with author Derrick Jensen. The question he has posed is, "What happens if a person is traumatized repeatedly or systematically?"

Excerpts/some paraphrased:
One begins to loose their identity, their self-respect...their autonomy and independence.
The situation is even worse for children raised in these circumstances, because their personality is formed in the context of an exploitative relationship, in which the overarching principles are those of coercion and control, of dominanace and subordination.

People lose their sense of faith in themselves; in other people; come to believe or view all relationships as coercive; come to feel that the strong rule; the strong do as they please; that the world is divided into victims, perpetrators, bystnadres, and rescuers. They believe or view all relations are contaminated and corrupted, that sadism is the principle that rules all relationships.

There is a loss of basic trust, loss of feeling of mutuality of relatedness. In its stead is emplaced a contempt for self and others. If you've been punished for showing autonomy, initiative, or independence, after a while you're not going to show them. In the aftermath of this kind of brutalization, victims have a great deal of difficulty taking responsibility for their lives. They seem passive, unable to extricate themselves or to advocate on their own behalf.

Captivity creates disturbances in intimacy-there's not room for relatinships of mutuality, for cooperation, for responsible choices.

There are many methods of coercive control perpetrators use, violence is only one, and not even one of the most frequently used. It doesn't have to be used all that often; it jut has to be convincing.

Other methods include the victim's isolation, and the breadkdown of the victim's resistance and spirit. You have capricious enforcement of lots of petty rules, and you have concomitant rewards. Prisoners and hostages talk about this all the time: if you're good, maybe they'll let you take a shower, or give you something extra to eat. You have the monopolization of perception that follows from the closing off of any outside relationships or sources of information.

And finally the method that really breaks people's spirits, perpetrators often force victims to engage in activities the victims find morally reprehensible or disgusting. Once you've forced a person to violate his or her moral codes, to break faith with him-or herself-the fact that it's done under duress does not remove the shame or guilt of the experience-you may never again even need to use threats.

There is hope and healing for those who experience captivity, isolation and trauma.
Dr. Herman says it's in telling the story, over and over, in a safe, supportive environment.
There is a desire to restore human connection and agency. Telling the story assists that process.
The possibility of mutuality returns.

She has identified the most important principles for recovery to be restoring power and choice or control, a reconnection with his/her natural social supports, to reestablish some sense of safety.

Only after safety has been established is it appropriate for the person to have a chance to tell the trauma in more depth.

Two mistakes: the idea that it's not necessary to tell the story, and that the person would be much better off not talking about it. Wrong. If the story isn't told and the emotions drained off, the story will fester. Don't suppress the stories.

The other- pushing people to share prematurely. If the timing, pacing, and setting isn't right, all you're going to have is another reenactment.

This seems to be tied to mourning what was lost.
An important question: How especially does an abused child mourn what he's never known?

What follows the healing process?
What renews people is the hope and belief that their own capacity to love has not been destroyed. The one's who do best are the ones who've developed a "survivor mission".

What is that? Make it a gift to others. It's really the only way to transcend an atrocity. You can't bury it. You can't make it go away. You can't dissociate it. It comes back. But you can transcend it, first by telling the truth about it, and then by using it in the service of humanity.

Many survivors find themselves much clearer and more daring about going after what they want in life, and in relationships.

When people are sensitized to the dynamics of exploitation, they are able to say, "I don't want this in my life." And they often become very courageous about speaking truth to power.

They join others in saying, "This is the thing we want to protect, and this is the thing we want to stop. We don't know how we're going to do it, but we do know that this is what we want. And we're not indifferent."

Jensen later states, "The responsibility for holding destructive institutions accountable falls on each of us."
***********************************

A debate ensues with a WASPie who claims that the 'personaliy' remains in tact, only the behavior is 'changed'.

AND
We don't stop these atrocities, because we don't talk about them. We don't talk about them, because we don't think about them. We don't think about them, because they're too horrific to comprehend. As trauma expert Judith Herman writes, "The ordinary response to atrocities is to banish them from consciousness. Certain violations of the social compact are too terrible to utter aloud: this the the meaning of the word unspeakable."

Isolation does strange things to a person's mind...Monkeys taken from their mothers at birth, placed alone in stainless-steel chambers, and deprived of contact with other animals, develop irreversible mental illnesses. As one of the experts in this field, Harry Harlow, put it: "sufficiently severe and enduring social isolation reduced these animals to a social-emotional level in which the primary social responsiveness is fear."

Stats from the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect. This comprehensive report extimated that in 1993, approximately 614,000 American children were physically abused, 300,000 were sexually abused, 532,000 were emotionally abused, 507,000 were physically neglected, and 585,000 were emotionally neglected. 565,000 of these children were killed or seriously injured.
What is the relationship between these numbers and our culturally induced isolation from the natural world and each other, from the social embeddedness in which we evolved?

And a great quote from R.D. Laing:
"Exploitation must not be seen as such. It must be seen as benevolence. Persecution preferably should not need to be invalidated as the figment of a paranoid imagination; it should be experienced as kindness....In order to sustain our amazing images of ourselves as God's gift to the vast majority of the starving human species, we have to interiorize our violence upon ourselves and our children, and to employ the rhetroic of morality to describe this process."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2005, 02:16:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-22 10:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

That girl was forced to re-experience an extremely traumatic event, and you ask if it HELPED her? Do you even realize how insane that sounds? Her past was used by the program to further traumatize and break her down, and you ask if it HELPED her become "stronger"?


And, lest we forget, this would have occured under very different circumstances than the parents' seminars. This would have happened after the midnight escort or deceitful intake, the strip search, the months of not being allowed to have normal conversations or step accross a threshhold or have a single moment's privacy or recreation. And participation in the seminar would be required in order to even have a monitored phone call home, never mind getting one inch closer to freedom.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being of His Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
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Offline The Graduate

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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2005, 02:20:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-22 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Oh come on... when were you ever told you that your parents dont love you and that you were a slut... that is bullshit and you know it."


Happened all the time in the Program I attended.
[ This Message was edited by: The Graduate on 2005-04-22 11:22 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2005, 04:23:00 PM »
When I was at spring creek, there was a group of kids called the hobbit crew. These were the kids always getting accused of 'not working the program.' They would just throw them in the hobbit for days, weeks or even months until they started complying. What goes on in that environment would disgust any person.



If your parents locked you in your bathroom for 'non-working behavior', for weeks at a time- they'd be thrown in jail! Why when WWASP does this, is it not considered abuse?

Do not be fooled by clever marketing and frightend parents who are willing to sacrifice their child's safety and innocence for piece of mind. A lot of parents out there are only trying to keep their own kid there, at any cost- even if it means getting you to send your kid who should be at home.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2005, 04:36:00 PM »
I was just scanning the post and would like to repy.
I did have a complete psychological evaluation for a weeks worth before the program. (went ot CCM)
Alot of you say that if a child needs help a mental hospital would be better than a program. They do takedowns at Mental hospitals too. They have isolation in mental hospitals too.

Instead of beating the dead horse, I would like to know from you all what you feel would work? What therapy methods have you heard of that are effective? What, if any, seminars (not WWASP but any) have oyu heard of that are effective? What books could you recomend that are effective, ect. Lets discuss what will and can work. What can be done. Reform to the program would be a start. Starting a voluntary treatment center designed specifically for teens with specific problems might work. Soem kids yes are just expereincing normal teenage hood. But when you self distruct because you cant handle that it is a different story. Soem kids need to get help to make it trough the adolecent stage. I certanily needed that help. And the program wasnt the only thing that helped. I give credit to everyhtin Ive learned that has been benificial to me, in the program and out.

And the only time I saw a takedown was when a girl was being violent to a staff or another girl. And they wer taken down only long enough to get them to calm down. I remember fights wiht my brothers and sisters where one sibling would get violent wiht another and another sibling woudl have to physically restrain the other to prevent harm to the other person. Were my siblings beign abusive? I dont think so.

So, since grounding a kid to their room is isolation (which a parent has the right to tel their kid they are grounded and cant talk on the phone) is any parent who grounds their kid abusive? Not many kids I knew of in iso stayed more than a day or two. So I cant say I kew of anyone in there for like a week or something.

Amanda

PS I am not advocating for the program. It needs reform. I just hope we can find a way to work wiht what we all know does work and try somethign new.
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2005, 04:42:00 PM »
That picture needs to be mailed to every Congressman and Senator with a statement urging them to support George Millers Bill.  Can this be reproduced?

If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine- but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good- and CARES about any of it- to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.
--Frank Zappa, American musician

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2005, 04:55:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-22 13:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"So, since grounding a kid to their room is isolation (which a parent has the right to tel their kid they are grounded and cant talk on the phone) is any parent who grounds their kid abusive? "


The hobbit wasn't a room, it was a shack-like cabin with a floorspace of about 6'x4' with linoleum flooring. The bathroom was a portapotty located about 50 yards from the shack, which you'd have to walk to, under close supervision of staff to relieve yourself. They didn't empty it enough, and would overflow with shit and piss all the time, so you'd have to balance over the pile the best you could without getting it on yourself.

They only gave you two meals a day. First meal was a dry bagel and banana on a paper plate. They didn't allow you to have utensils in there. Second meal was a handful of lettuce and black beans on a tortilla. You could keep a small dental hygiene cup for water. No shower the entire 72 hour stay. No shoes allowed. Only one layer of clothing, no matter how cold to prevent running attempts. (the majority of the year there is several feet of snow, its cold) You'd get a sleeping bag from 9pm to 5am to sleep on the floor with, no pillow.

I know 72 hours, or a week, or even a month might not sound like a long time 'on paper' to spend in that tiny room. Please, think about what it's actually like. Begging staff to let you out, begging to be treated as a human being and not an animal. It's a very long time, it does emotional and psychological damage to anyone, especially kids and teens. This is NOT treatment! This is what you do with your enemy during times of war, or to punish violent inmates in prison.

Comparing parents sending their kids to their room, and having a kid put in the hobbit are two completely different things. One option is very abusive, the other is normal parenting. It's a pity some people can't see the difference.  ::noway::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Dolphin

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Cross Creek Manor - Report of abuse
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2005, 05:02:00 PM »
The picture isnt from Cross Creek -

The hobbitt at SCL -in the photo - has heat, so it wasn't like it was cold.  You're in the mountains, so unless they had a separate cabin for kids that acted out or were threatening to hurt someone, where else would you give them some time to think about their actions?  THey could beg all they wanted, but until they proved they weren't going to hurt anyone, they had to be somewhere they didn't like to be.  If they liked it, they'd want to stay and do nothing.  Could it be that all the kids that go there are good kids making good choices and someone just decided they wanted to put someone in there for no reason.  It's unbelievable how enabling you all are!  Apparently you've never dealt with a angry kid that needed some "think" time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »