Author Topic: Things We Must NEVER Do.....  (Read 4318 times)

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Offline `

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Things We Must NEVER Do.....
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2005, 02:50:00 PM »
I operate under the assumption that I am being tapped, watched, and followed, and try to be as entertaining as possible. ( :wave: Hi Fed Boys!)
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2005, 05:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-09 20:19:00, Antigen wrote:

"I don't disagree w/ any of that. But there's just one flaw. I don't think there's any one definable group that we can deem as bad and complicit while letting everyone else off the hook. I fucked w/ people's minds as an oldcomer, as a fifth phaser.

Yes, but the Executives can't claim they did so because they were subjected to Straight's methods or that they were afraid of consequences if they didn't act sadistically.  They did so willingly and voluntarily, and received a paycheck for their efforts.  It disgusts me that you are willing to overlook that.



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Then there are the teachers and neighbors and cops and politicians and policy makers and judges, all of these fuckers either stood idly by or actively participated in our missery. Then look to Salley Jesse Raphael and Dr. Phil and all the rest of the self righious altruist talking heads on tv who promote this bullshit.

Again, none of these people perpetrated the sadism for profit and personal gain.  The Jr. and Sr. staff at Straight may have (and I'm being generous with 'may have'), but the Executive Staff at Straight, Inc. committed, for pay, what would be considered war crimes or crimes against humanity, had they been inflicted on adult POWs, and they did it to kids.



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All of them, all of us, except those stubborn, strong or just bull-headed enough to resist every moment and never go alont, all the rest of us and our families and our communities are complicit in this.

That's like blaming every Russian citizen for the atrocities committed by Stalin.  The buck has to stop somewhere, and I don't see the logic of diluting the responsibility of the Executive Staff of Straight, Inc. for the crimes they perpetrated, enjoyed perpetrating, and were paid for perpetrating.


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Stringing up Newton or Byrd or any other individual would only make them martyrs.

No, it would make them corpses that could no longer perpetrate their sadistic crimes.  Did hanging the Nazis at Nuremburg (a show trial, by the way, the outcome was never in doubt) make them martyrs?  And if it did, so what?  We have the right to expect not only justice, but vengeance.

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What we need is for our entire society to feel deeply ashamed of our complicity in these crimes. Look to Germany and how they have come back from Naziism. It's an admirable example. They "get it" and are generally among the first to respond to stories about the troubled parent industry in American by saying, offhandedly, "Oh yeah, Nazis, Hitler Jugund, mind control.... what did you think we were talking about?"

Here's a little joke making the rounds in Germany these days:

 "Don't joke about the Holocaust--my grandfather died in a concentration camp."  

"Oh, really? That's terrible."

"Yeah, he fell out of a guard tower".

Sounds ashamed and repentant to me.....

Quote



That's where I want my grandkids to grow up; a culture that knows it when they see it and soundly, roundly condemns it.


And they would have a better chance of growing up in a society that did not promote such atrocities as Straight, Etc. if would-be perps of such crimes knew that they would suffer at the hands of those they abused.

Although I do not advocate violence against anyone, even the Straight, Inc. Executive Staff, I understand the desire of those that do, and would probably feel no small measure of schadenfreude (German for "taking joy in the misfortunes of others) were I to become aware of it.
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Offline RTP2003

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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2005, 05:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-09 13:55:00, fka wrote:

"today, I would not like to see violence. i would really like to see the biggest trial of the century, and ALL of the child abuse laid out in the media. i think the American public, as STUPID as they are sometimes, could only be horrified.



i would like to hear the judge pound the gavel: "Suzanne Lovelace, for your complicity in the endless bullying, child abuse, and acts of torture upon the children in Straight, Inc., I sentence you to ten years, no chance for early release, no parole."



etc.



they are felons. they should be serving hard prison time.



"


It ain't gonna happen.  These guys have political clout and influence, and will never see a minute of jail time for what they did.  Although I am not advocating any form of violence against these shits, I understand how someone could want to do that to them.  The "American public" would not be horrified, they would be cheering, just as they do when Maury Povich or whoever the talk-show flavor of the week sends kids to boot camps.  The evidence has been out there for a long time, newspapers and TV news have done exposes, and NOT A SINGLE ONE of the Execs has done any jail time.  This is a story that no one but the victims cares about, and half of them think they "deserved it....it helped me change my life" or "at least it got me off drugs".  Good luck bringing them to trial, you'll need it.
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Offline `

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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2005, 06:30:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-10 14:53:00, RTP2003 wrote:

"It ain't gonna happen... Good luck bringing them to trial, you'll need it."


sorry, didn't realize you were an experienced lawyer, or i would have asked for your opinion before.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2005, 09:36:00 AM »
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Oh wow.  That is very sick and sad.  You are screwed up in the head.  Taking pleasure in another's death?   And you call the programs and their staff sick!??"


I'll tell ya, at Miller Newton Smelly funeral, I along with a number of my friends will stand as close as we can get to the grave site and throw on fucking outstanding party.  I'm gonna be and let my "feelings" be known by all.  Heyk anon, you wanna come?????  You're invited.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2005, 09:37:00 AM »
Quote
Oh wow.  That is very sick and sad.  You are screwed up in the head.  Taking pleasure in another's death?   And you call the programs and their staff sick!??"


I'll tell ya, at Miller Newton and Smelly funeral, I along with a number of my friends will stand as close as we can get to the grave site and throw one  fucking outstanding party.  I'm gonna be there and let my "feelings" be known by all.  Heyk anon, you wanna come?????  You're invited.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2005, 02:11:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-09 13:30:00, RTP2003 wrote:

(come on! Who but an idiot would fall for the bullshit at Open Meetings? "Look, Honey! The druggies are all happy and singing Straight songs, complete with goofy hand gestures---there's nothing weird about that...And that Dr. Newton, he's sooo caring and proffessional").


People who are so bereft of anything like authentic culture and personality that even that creepy scene seemed better and more comforting than whatever they had to begin with.

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2005, 02:44:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-10 14:35:00, RTP2003 wrote:
Yes, but the Executives can't claim they did so because they were subjected to Straight's methods or that they were afraid of consequences if they didn't act sadistically.  They did so willingly and voluntarily, and received a paycheck for their efforts.  It disgusts me that you are willing to overlook that.

I'm not overlooking it. I just figured out at some point that those people are either already past this (some few) or they're beyond all hope. There's no influencing them. They will never entertain any notion that conflicts w/ their fantasy where they get to be heros and martyrs. So fuck `em. As far as they're concerned, I'm only interested in getting the word out on them so people will see them coming.

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Then there are the teachers and neighbors and cops ...

Again, none of these people perpetrated the sadism for profit and personal gain.  The Jr. and Sr. staff at Straight may have (and I'm being generous with 'may have'), but the Executive Staff at Straight, Inc. committed, for pay, what would be considered war crimes or crimes against humanity, had they been inflicted on adult POWs, and they did it to kids.

Bullshit! The cops in Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano and those in St. Pete and Sarasota knew what was going on. They were real tight w/ the whole thing. And they would drop an actual criminal investigaton (or take men off of it) to go chase down a split. Check this out:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/articles/20 ... 11-239.htm

Same thing happened w/ The Seed. Nothing! They knew, they still know, and they think we deserved it and the kids getting starved and beaten and mindfucked today deserve and need it. And they don't get paid any extra to support it. They support it because it fits their beliefs. They're complicit.

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Quote
All of them, all of us, except those stubborn, strong or just bull-headed enough to resist every moment and never go alont, all the rest of us and our families and our communities are complicit in this.


That's like blaming every Russian citizen for the atrocities committed by Stalin.  

That's what happened. That's how it ended. When Russians and other citizens of the Soviet Boc countries finally rejected the dogma, then the Union fell apart. The aftermath hasn't been pretty at all. But, according to a lot of former Soviets, it's a little better than it was.

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The buck has to stop somewhere, and I don't see the logic of diluting the responsibility of the Executive Staff of Straight, Inc. for the crimes they perpetrated, enjoyed perpetrating, and were paid for perpetrating.

Well, logically, as long as they have the support and backing of the community, we're the bad guys and they're the good guys and it'll never stop. That has to change.

Quote
Quote
Stringing up Newton or Byrd or any other individual would only make them martyrs.

No, it would make them corpses that could no longer perpetrate their sadistic crimes.  Did hanging the Nazis at Nuremburg (a show trial, by the way, the outcome was never in doubt) make them martyrs?  And if it did, so what?  We have the right to expect not only justice, but vengeance.

Think about this for a moment. You know very well that the most sadistic fucks, like Newton, are haunted already. How would you like to spend your golden years watching an endless parade of 40yo asses hanging out of car windows from your front porch? And that's just the humorous least of it. The Nuremburg trials may have been a dog and pony show, but they were a dog and pony show well attended, supported and applauded by the world. That's what we need to happen here. And you must know that it wouldn't be just Straight, Inc. ppl on trial. It would have to be the entire apparatus, though there probably will be a few choice examples set to take the brunt of it.

Quote
Here's a little joke making the rounds in Germany these days:
 "Don't joke about the Holocaust--my grandfather died in a concentration camp."  

"Oh, really? That's terrible."

"Yeah, he fell out of a guard tower".

Sounds ashamed and repentant to me.....

But it's not reflective of the general sentiment in Germany.

Quote
Quote
That's where I want my grandkids to grow up; a culture that knows it when they see it and soundly, roundly condemns it.

And they would have a better chance of growing up in a society that did not promote such atrocities as Straight, Etc. if would-be perps of such crimes knew that they would suffer at the hands of those they abused.


Although I do not advocate violence against anyone, even the Straight, Inc. Executive Staff, I understand the desire of those that do, and would probably feel no small measure of schadenfreude (German for "taking joy in the misfortunes of others) were I to become aware of it.


Right there with ya, buddy. But I want backing from the rest of society. Am I expecting too much? Maybe so.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil ---in its worst state an
intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same
miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without
government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we
furnish the means by which we suffer!


Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2005, 03:49:00 PM »
One other thing.

Knowing as we do what these particular people are capable of--what they're inclined to do--and knowing as we do that they have a great deal of political and ecconomic cloute, what do you think they're up to these days? Look around at general areas of interest, news stories and, from that, make up a short list of whichever issues you might expect to find them involved in. Then go look and see if you can spot the Straightlings.

Here are some of the issues in which I've found Straightlings/DFAF involved:

Piss testing by public mandate and at pubic expense.
Anonymous tip hotlines.
Paid informant programs.
DARE outrageously innacurate drug propaganda in and out of schools.
Aerial spraying hyper-forulated Roundup (fka Agent Orange) in So. America.
(aka chemical warfare)
Biological warfare (google fusarium oxysporum silver bullet and see all the familiar names of politicos and momsters)
Mandatory minimum sentencing (for victimless "crimes" only)
Medical use of marijuana
Forced treatment (backed by mandatory minimums)

My point here is that ours are not the only faces in which these fuckers routinely piss. We didn't even get the worst of it. If you want to bring about real accountability, try finding some friends at November.org and LEAP.cc Compare notes. We're all working seperately against what comes down to a tighly knit, carefully camoflaged, well funded conspiracy of utter lunatics. Why aren't we working together?



We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
-- Ben Franklin At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2005, 03:57:00 PM »
Ok, so I go to check my mail, and find this sitting there, fresh from some distribution list. Crazy Mac dropping bombs and hints again?

Subject: ARO: STUNNING BBC DOCUMENTARY OF TORTURE IN AMERICA'S DOMESTIC
PRISONS

Friends,
This documentary illustrates one of the key features of drug prohibition -- the dehumanization of drug users and all offenders. If you have the opportunity to view it, do so.  You will undoubtedly want to share it with others who are indifferent to the state to which our justice system has sunk. Eric

STUNNING BBC DOCUMENTARY OF TORTURE IN AMERICA'S DOMESTIC PRISONS
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm
 DEBORAH DAVIES, BBC CHANNEL FOUR - It's terrible to watch some of the videos and realise that you're not only seeing torture in action but, in the most extreme cases, you are witnessing young men dying. The prison guards stand over their captives with electric cattle prods, stun guns, and dogs. Many of the prisoners have been ordered to strip naked. The guards are yelling abuse at them, ordering them to lie on the ground and crawl. 'Crawl, motherf- - - - - s, crawl.'

If a prisoner doesn't drop to the ground fast enough, a guard kicks him or stamps on his back. There's a high-pitched scream from one man as a dog clamps its teeth onto his lower leg.

Another prisoner has a broken ankle. He can't crawl fast enough so a guard jabs a stun gun onto his buttocks. The jolt of electricity zaps through his naked flesh and genitals. For hours afterwards his whole body shakes.

Lines of men are now slithering across the floor of the cellblock while the guards stand over them shouting, prodding and kicking.

Second by second, their humiliation is captured on a video camera by one of the guards.

These were exactly the kind of pictures from inside Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad that shocked the world this time last year. And they are similar, too, to the images of brutality against Iraqi prisoners that this week led to the conviction of three British soldiers.

But there is a difference. These prisoners are not caught up in a war zone. They are Americans, and the video comes from inside a prison in Texas

They are just some of the victims of wholesale torture taking place inside the U.S. prison system that we uncovered during a four-month investigation for Channel 4.

Our findings were not based on rumour or suspicion. They were based on solid evidence, chiefly videotapes that we collected from all over the U.S.

In many American states, prison regulations demand that any 'use of force operation', such as searching cells for drugs, must be filmed by a guard. The theory is that the tapes will show proper procedure was followed and that no excessive force was used. In fact, many of them record the exact opposite.

Each tape provides a shocking insight into the reality of life inside the U.S. prison system ? a reality that sits very uncomfortably with President Bush's commitment to the battle for freedom and democracy against the forces of tyranny and oppression.

In fact, the Texas episode outlined above dates from 1996, when Bush was state Governor. . .

All the lawyers I spoke to during our investigations shared Carlson's belief that Abu Ghraib, far from being the work of a few rogue individuals, was simply the export of the worst practices that take place in the domestic prison system all the time. . .

Many of the tapes we've collected are several years old. That's because they only surface when determined lawyers prise them out of reluctant state prison departments during protracted lawsuits. But for every 'historical' tape we collected, we also found a more recent story. What you see on the tape is still happening daily.

It's terrible to watch some of the videos and realize that you're not only seeing torture in action but, in the most extreme cases, you are witnessing young men dying.

In one horrific scene, a naked man, passive and vacant, is seen being led out of his cell by prison guards. They strap him into a medieval-looking device called a 'restraint chair'. His hands and feet are shackled, there's a strap across his chest, his head lolls forward. He looks dead. He's not. Not yet.

The chair is his punishment because guards saw him in his cell with a pillowcase on his head and he refused to take it off. The man has a long history of severe schizophrenia. Sixteen hours later, they release him from the chair. And two hours after that, he dies from a blood clot resulting from his barbaric treatment.

The tape comes from Utah ? but there are others from Connecticut, Florida, Texas, Arizona and probably many more. We found more than 20 cases of prisoners who've died in the past few years after being held in a restraint chair.

Two of the deaths we investigated were in the same county jail in Phoenix, Arizona, which is run by a man who revels in the title of 'America's Toughest Sheriff.'

His name is Joe Arpaio. He positively welcomes TV crews and we were promised 'unfettered access.' It was a reassuring turn of phrase ? you don't want to be fettered in one of Sheriff Joe's jails.

We uncovered two videotapes from surveillance cameras showing how his tough stance can end in tragedy. The first tape, from 2001, shows a man named Charles Agster dragged in by police, handcuffed at the wrists and ankles. Agster is mentally disturbed and a drug user. He was arrested for causing a disturbance in a late-night grocery store. The police handed him over to the Sheriff's deputies in the jail. Agster is a tiny man, weighing no more than nine stone, but he's struggling.

The tape shows nine deputies manhandling him into the restraint chair. One of them kneels on Agster's stomach, pushing his head forward on to his knees and pulling his arms back to strap his wrists into the chair.

Bending someone double for any length of time is dangerous ? the manuals on the use of the 'restraint chair' warn of the dangers of 'positional asphyxia.'

Fifteen minutes later, a nurse notices Agster is unconscious. The cameras show frantic efforts to resuscitate him, but he's already brain dead. He died three days later in hospital. Agster's family is currently suing Arizona County. . .

A few years ago, in Florida, the new warden of the high security state prison ordered an end to the videoing of 'use of force operations.' So we have no tapes to show how prison guards use pepper spray to punish prisoners. But we do have the lawsuit describing how men were doused in pepper spray and then left to cook in the burning fog of chemicals. Photographs taken by their lawyers show one man has a huge patch of raw skin over his hip. Another is covered in an angry rash across his neck, back and arms. A third has deep burns on his buttocks.

'They usually use fire extinguishers size canisters of pepper spray,' lawyer Christopher Jones explained. 'We have had prisoners who have had second degree burns all over their bodies. . .

And why were they sprayed? According to the official prison reports, their infringements included banging on the cell door and refusing medication.

  From the same Florida prison we also have photographs of Frank Valdes ? autopsy pictures. Realistically, he had little chance of ever getting out of prison alive. He was on Death Row for killing a prison officer. He had time to reconcile himself to the Electric Chair ? he didn't expect to be beaten to death.
VIDEO OF FULL SHOW
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric E. Sterling   http://www.cjpf.org

"Humanitarianism consists in never sacrificing
a human being to a purpose."
          -- Albert Schweitzer, M.D. (1875-1965), 1923,
          Nobel Peace Prize laureate, 1952

Tel:  301-589-6020  Cell: 202-365-2420 Fax: 301-589-5056
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Silver Spring, MD  20910-3649
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If you think about why you hate me, you might find that it's not me.
--Antigen

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Offline `

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« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2005, 04:37:00 PM »
:cry: stop the world, i want to get off
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Offline PerfectStraightling

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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2005, 07:26:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-11 11:11:00, Antigen wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-04-09 13:30:00, RTP2003 wrote:


(come on! Who but an idiot would fall for the bullshit at Open Meetings? "Look, Honey! The druggies are all happy and singing Straight songs, complete with goofy hand gestures---there's nothing weird about that...And that Dr. Newton, he's sooo caring and proffessional").




People who are so bereft of anything like authentic culture and personality that even that creepy scene seemed better and more comforting than whatever they had to begin with.

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
-- F. P. Jones


"


This is so true  :sad:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2005, 12:03:00 AM »
My mother told me that another mother from Straight was pissed when she was asked to turn her shirt inside-out right before open meeting cause it had a small polo symbol on it. HAHA!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2005, 12:36:00 AM »
? what up with the polo thing?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2005, 04:06:00 AM »
It's because you could put a tiny camera on the logo.
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