Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2005-04-07 18:29:00, Antigen wrote:
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--- Quote ---
On 2005-04-07 14:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
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I hope to God he never sees this....
"
--- End quote ---
I'm guessing he's at least seen this "And we are very careful what we support with our life energy (money), knowing that whatever we do support will flourish and continue" I got it from his web site. That's about all I know of the guy, but I sure can't find a way to read that that doesn't seem to say that money is damned importent to the guy.
What makes you think the guy us so pious? What he said about himself? Oh honey, never mind what they say, watch what they do"
--- End quote ---
So which are you? Are you someone who desires your own happiness or someone desiring the unhappiness of others? (?You? not necessarily being directed at Antigen or Greg or Stripe, but to any reader or participant here experiencing a drive to denigrate, belittle, or assassinate the character of another.)
I must admit that it will be with some effort that I try to offer positive input here rather than defending or mounting a counterattack. The experience of righteous indignation, conveniently dividing the world into camps of good and evil (of course I was always in the good) is a habit of my past, and it is my current belief, a behavior both pointless and detrimental to my evolution. Further, I do not believe that John or Cindy would desire that I engage in a counterattack on their behalf, and they do not require my defense.
I realize that the non-offensive tone that I will make every effort to take has potential to enrage. Please know that this is not my intent. I share an experience with many of you of having been associated with the Seed. I also have had the experience that I have been a victim of the Seed. (There is ambivalence here because I also have experienced the Seed as beneficial to my life. For me, arriving at some judgment as to the relative ?goodness? of ?badness? of the experience is a pointless exercise. It was simply what it was. Emphasis on ?was?. I will attempt to explain if you are willing to read on.)
What I would simply like to say is that what I see on these pages runs the gamut between appreciation of the experience and revulsion. I do not suggest that one is more appropriate or correct than the other. We all have differing experiences. The revulsion, however, gives rise to a desire to lash out. What I would suggest is that the experience of being a victim, although not without value, is valuable only for a limited time. I would further suggest that one chooses to experience the world as a victim, a prisoner of all prior insults experienced in one?s life, or, one experiences life as being in control of one?s own life and destiny. The prisoner lashes out in an effort to punish his or her perceived jailers or tormenters. The individual with real personal power simply leaves the prison. The lashing out is particularly frustrating when the object of one?s imprisonment isn?t really present, and the anger and difficult emotions involved are really most intensely experienced by oneself. Of course suffering is also passed on to one?s mate, children, friends, business associates etc.
I realize this will probably be considered too ?new-agie? for some but I invite you to try an exercise which I found quite beneficial to my well being. Imagine that you have available to you a fixed amount of energy. That energy must be allocated to the maintenance of your physical form and all of your daily activities. I don?t think this is an unreasonable assumption. If may help to imagine this as a beam of light entering through the top of your head. (No intent here to give this any religious context). You might visualize your energy expenditures as a bundle of light fibers exiting your solar plexus. So there are strands accounting for the energy required to fend off infections, and repair damage to tissues from accidents and exposure to environmental toxins, deal with the stresses and challenges of personal relationships, etc. The relative thickness of each strand is dependent upon your current life situation. You may or may not be able to influence the energy which must be allocated in many cases. There also appears in this bundle of exiting strands, one strand for each insult that you have been unable or unwilling to resolve. We are connected to each of the offending individuals or insults remembered by a strand of energy which maintains that resentment and drains a portion of our available energy. I admit that I did not see the value of this imagery until I made a sincere effort to examine and experience the resentments I held. Each incident of bullying by the boy who lived next door who I simply wanted to be friends with. The time I was wrongly accused of mischief and embarrassed in front of the class in junior high. Failed romances, on and on. Each of these carried an energy of anger or hurt which was palpable. I certainly did not dwell on any of these incidents in my day to day life, but the exercise made me aware that I did carry them with me. They required energy to maintain and feed. The tool that allowed me to severe these connections was forgiveness or acceptance. Of course the thin strands were easier to cut than the thick.
To put it simply, my suggestion as it relates to the concerns of those who gather here is to get off the front row or back row or where ever you are currently held against your will. You are the only ?staff? who is presently holding you there or walking you to the bathroom or forcing you to write your moral inventory. Please see that to be passionately and emotionally ?pro? or ?anti? anything really gives that thing equal sway over your life. (This is not to say that I believe one should have no opinions whatever, but that is a different topic I still struggle with.)
Thanks for the opportunity to voice this. Much of this comes from thoughts I had as I watched people who had been friends for years become bitter enemies as the hierarchy of the Seed crumbled. This did not really surprise me at all as the ?you are with us or against us? thinking had always been promoted if not required. It is certainly more comfortable to view the world as black and white and without ambiguity. We seem to find such comfort, safety and identity in belonging to a group which doesn?t like the way some other group looks or thinks or behaves (Irish Catholics ? Irish Protestants, Israelis ? Palestinians, Republicans ? Democrats, Christians ? Muslims, People who think Art is perfect - People who don?t think Art is perfect, People who think the Seed sucks ? People who don?t think the Seed sucks ?) I found this division of ?us? from ?them? one of the most distressing aspects of my experience with the seed. It is my sincere desire not to engage in it in any way, shape or form. (Always easier said than done!)
I offer my sincerest apologies if this is difficult to comprehend or offensive in any way. I have never considered myself a very good communicator. You may be interested in an article here http://www.noetic.org/publications/revi ... 5/main.cfm titled Red-Hot Rock ( I know, new agie again, but if you don?t like this, start with quantum physics, or psychoneuroimmunology or anything that might open you to the possibilty that things aren?t always as simplistic as they appear in our black and white world, and that there may be some value to introspection and fresh examination of our experience. (Or don?t as is your preference!))
One last thing for any who may be curious? I am not a ?disciple? of John?s, and don?t believe that any exist. I know him and respect him but have significant disagreements on philosophical issues with him. I probably know some of you, and don?t know many others and certainly have disagreements on philosophical issues with many, but also respect you. I think that the differences we might imagine between us are probably not that great. We all breath, eat, sleep, and urinate and deficate and will, with out exception, return to the Earth in the not so distant future. We all desire some degree of contentment and peace and fulfillment in our lives until that time.
Best Wishes to all. I personally believe we all deserve to live in happiness, the cynic in me says that we are not in immenent peril of that occuring, but I guess that?s just one of the things that keeps life interesting.
GregFL:
Well, thanks for the post anon. But you in your flowerly denounciation of attacking people have done the very thing you said you loathe.
Tell me, just where do I attack and denigrade people as you suggest? Point me to the error of my ways..otherwise..admit you are just taking a contrary opinion of someone because he/she doesn't agree with you.
I invite you to join this community, let us know your past affiliation with the seed and offer your contribution to what we are attempting to do here...understand our joint experience. Your attempt at seperating those that think their experience was bad into negative people is just as bad as the contrary.
Stripe:
Anon wrote:
"So which are you? Are you someone who desires your own happiness or someone desiring the unhappiness of others?"
Am I to understand that in your view - this is an either-or proposition? That I can only live my life desiring my own happiness and if not, I must therefore desire the unhappiness of others? I'm trying reconcile this with formulaed reasoning I've learned and I just can't.
Your philosphy, and I use that term loosely, supposes that a person can only be one or the other. I don't see this as being any different from the dogma of the seed, the dogma or christianity or the dogma of any other religion that I know about. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about world religions, but your statement smacks of intolerance and prorammed mind set.
Following your reasoning has the effect of locking a person into one camp or the other, which is, if I understood you, the exact place your exercise was intended to remove the exercisor from. Badly written by me, but I think you can get my point.
What I do agree with is that it is beneficial to change one's perspective and look at the world through a larger lense at every given opportunity - especially when it is difficult or painful to do so. It's not just people who see their lives as diminishd by association with seed dogma who benefit from a new perspective.
Frankly, living for my own happiness seems like a pretty shallow, selfish goal or life purpose to me. Likewise, living to bring unhappiness to others is also shallow and selfish. Yours seems to be a no-win proppostion that results in emotional and energy enslavement on either side of the equation.
What I find most appalling about this unconditional love bullshit,or whatever it's called, is that the purveyors of this nonsense are still engaging in behavior that seeks to draw life force from its disciples or followers and redirect it to leaders own personal benefit and gain - under the guise of desiring the happiness of others. What aboslute and total unmitigiated bullshit. They would do less harm and have my respect if they stood out on street intersections panhandling money from the temporarily trapped drivers. At least we would all know exactly what they were doing and we could make an intelligent, unemotional choice to support or not support them.
The premise of their program is dishonest and that, my fellow traveller, is why I detest their action on its face and react so vehimently against it.
This life-energy stealing must be stopped and I for one, will continue to call it as I see it and take my lumps for speaking out against it.
"Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe." -- Frank Zappa
Anonymous:
Although I have no problem with a few harmless new age principles, it becomes more and more apparent (to me) that many of these groups mainly cater to the Anglo minority, wealthy enough to attend endless workshops and seminars, listening to each other promote a "privileged discourse." After all, in the end, the new agers are all saying the same thing: "We are all one and God is within us." I don't know about you, but I certainly do not need to reach for my back pocket to understand that, moreover, have it gift wrapped in intellectual jargon. Believing these core principles is one thing, practicing them in the presence of others can get expensive, at times. For the most part, new age trends, sects, groups, and gurus are available to those willing to pay and participate. For the everyday, down-and-out American citizen, who might not have more than an 8th grade education (12th if lucky), the privileged intellectual discourse promoted by new agers is unattainable since it is the academic language of colleges and universities with a mix of spirituality a la carte. Some of us just need someone to initially hold our hand to get to the lunch line, not explain to us how to cross the street in such lofty language, while giving us the false hope that someday we will understand the words and, finally, when the words take on a deeper meaning, we will know how to get to the lunch line by ourselves.
Stripe:
Anything that fosters dependence and sells what is really innate knowldge can't be good.
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