Racism and other stuff

[SHH]

I am not interested in posting specifically about HLA at this time, but I do have to address the KKK comment. I lived for years in North Georgia..and Dahlonega is NOT the seat of the KKK...its Dawsonville....14 miles south. Dahlonega actually does not have a race problem. Dawson county has no blacks in their county, but Lumpkin does. My son had about 5 black children in his kindergarten class. I never saw a race problem in this county. Dawson county is KNOWN as having one however. And to some extent Cumming in Forsyth county did too, further south towards Atlanta. Dawson county is next door to Lumpkin, however VERY different in culture. If Rudy ever made statements about the safety of black students in Lumpkin county he was totally bullshitting. There is NO race issue in Lumpkin. He was being an ass and out of line if he really did say that to that child.

[Troll Control]

bump

[RobertBruce]

Just as an interesting addition to comments made by Rudy, Greg told my peer group once that regardless of color we stood a chance of being shot by some inbred hick should we try and run away and end up on someones property.

[Macaroni3001]

Well I just want to let you know that Hate people that hate anyone because of their race, religion, culture, or skin color.  All you racist bastards are some cowards who hide behind table clothes and the american system.  Thats why you stay anonymous.  

Get a Life!  this is not the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1960s, or even the 1970s so stop living the past.  

Signing off,

An Angry Black Man

[Macaroni3001]

Hey Shh,

You need to Shhush!  Anyone from Georgia or who knows about Georgia knows that most places outside of Metro Atlanta is a racist place.  Dahlonega, Dawsonville, Forsythe County, Waycross, Rome, Carrolton, Dublin, ect are all racist places.  A staff that is currently working at HLA now (a black man) was living in Dawsonville and was forced to move because his car was vandalized by some Rednecks or KKK cowards.  So that area is Racist or what I called scared because they don't understand Black Folks.  In my 8 months working in Dahlonega, I could feel the looks, stares, and heard some of the comments made about black folks.  I never heard staff at HLA say anything, but I will never live or work in that area again in my life.  I can't say that its the home of the KKK but I know there are some in Dahlonega and I prayed everyday that my car would never breakdown on Waseaga Road or any where north of Atlanta.  Thank you and have a good day.

[Troll Control]

Hey Macaroni,

I agree with what you say here.  I'm a white guy and I can tell you that the racism is palpable there.

Also, being a white guy, I heard lots of talk that would probably be "shh'd" around me if I weren't white.  It seems in that area that if your skin is white, they assume you're "one of the boys."  I heard and saw some really disgusting things in my time in north Georgia.

BTW, did you work at HLA also?  If so, can you tell a little bit about your experiences?

Regards,

Dysfunction Junction

[SHH]

Macaroni I am sorry you had a bad experience but I can tell you that living in Dawson county was a horrible choice....It IS a racist county unfortunately. Lumpkin county is NOT. Lumpkin county is home to The Army Ranger camp, North Georgia College, and tourist sites, and blacks live in the county, and attend the ranger camp and the college. My son had black kids in his school. I never saw anything racist in Dahlonega. But in Forsyth Co. I did, and in Dawson Co. I did. My former husband and I had a good friend live with us for a time in Atlanta and then later in Forsyth Co. and he was black and when I would go to the store with him in Cumming people would look at us. Really ticked me off. But he came to visit us in Dahlonega also and there he didnt have a problem shopping in town. I also have a friend who lives in Dawson Co. and he is white but he is having problems with being an outsider just the same. The head of the KKK north georgia branch is in Dawsonville, not in Dahlonega as Dysfunction stated earlier. Dahlonega is a much safer place for racial diversity. I just wanted to set the record straight on that. And by the way, I am hispanic. I have experienced bigotry in Atlanta even when I lived there. But personally didnt have a problem the 5 1/2 yrs I lived in Dahlonega. Sorry you felt uncomfortable.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-04-17 06:52:00, SHH wrote:

"Macaroni I am sorry you had a bad experience but I can tell you that living in Dawson county was a horrible choice....It IS a racist county unfortunately. Lumpkin county is NOT. Lumpkin county is home to The Army Ranger camp, North Georgia College, and tourist sites, and blacks live in the county, and attend the ranger camp and the college. My son had black kids in his school. I never saw anything racist in Dahlonega. But in Forsyth Co. I did, and in Dawson Co. I did. My former husband and I had a good friend live with us for a time in Atlanta and then later in Forsyth Co. and he was black and when I would go to the store with him in Cumming people would look at us. Really ticked me off. But he came to visit us in Dahlonega also and there he didnt have a problem shopping in town. I also have a friend who lives in Dawson Co. and he is white but he is having problems with being an outsider just the same. The head of the KKK north georgia branch is in Dawsonville, not in Dahlonega as Dysfunction stated earlier. Dahlonega is a much safer place for racial diversity. I just wanted to set the record straight on that. And by the way, I am hispanic. I have experienced bigotry in Atlanta even when I lived there. But personally didnt have a problem the 5 1/2 yrs I lived in Dahlonega. Sorry you felt uncomfortable."

Right on schedule.  There you have it, Macaroni.  Your experience is hereby invalidated and you are corrected: You NEVER experienced racism in Lumpkin county, Georgia.

Thank God Mrs. Gray is here to TELL you what you heard and saw so you don't have to do any thinking on your OWN.

And your friend wasn't a victim of racism either.  He made a "bad choice" in his residence, that's all.

Thanks for straightening that out, Mrs. Gray.  Another bang-up job!

[Deborah]

***The Army Ranger camp

The Mountain Rangers? Many who were hired to work at HLA's boot camp (Ridge Creek) woops, 'wilderness leadership program'? Why is it they are no longer there? I don't believe you answered that question.

Keith Antonia ,  Director
Keith Antonia graduated from the University of Connecticut in 1981 with a B.S. in General Business Administration and holds a Masters degree from the Naval War College in National Security. Recently retired as a Lieutenant Colonel, Keith completed 20 highly successful years of service in the U.S. Army as an infantry officer in Airborne and Ranger units. Throughout his 20 years leading soldiers under hazardous conditions, he became an expert at managing and mitigating risk. His effort and supervision led to an outstanding safety record. His last assignment in the Army involved commanding the Mountain Phase of the U.S. Army Ranger School in Dahlonega, Georgia. His goal is to provide a rigorous but safe wilderness leadership program for Ridge Creek students. He and his family currently reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.

Tom Wilburn,   Wilderness Team Leader
Recently retired First Sergeant, Tom served 20 years in the U.S. Army Special Operations Forces. His qualifications include Ranger, Pathfinder, Master Fitness Trainer, Advanced Land Navigation, Survival, SpecialForces Mountain Rescue, American Heart Association CPR Instructor, Wilderness First Responder and many other certifications/qualifications. Tom has extensive leadership training and experience. He led soldiers under the most hazardous conditions in combat and in peacetime with outstanding success. He achieved the highest enlisted rank in the Army. He also is a volunteer fireman in Suches, GA where he assists with search and rescue. He and his family reside in Suches, Georgia.

Kevin Connell,  Wilderness Team Leader
Kevin recently retired as a Command Sergeant Major from the U.S. Army after serving over 23 years in Special Operations and Ranger Units. His qualifications include Ranger, High Risk Survival, Mountaineering Instructor, Winter Operations Course, Master Fitness Trainer, American Heart Association CPR Instructor and numerous other qualifications/certifications. During his time in the military, Kevin was recognized as a mature, focused leader who was unflappable under the most stressful conditions. He mentored, trained and led hundreds of future Army leaders. He and his family reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.

[SHH]

Deborah RIdge Creek was opened right when I left..I have no experience with it other than I did meet Keith Antonia on several occasions. He was the CO of the Army Ranger camp for many years and retired from the Army and then went to be the director....but I am not sure why that is a problem...you dont have to be a counselor to be a director....he managed it not counseled students. And what is the big difference between teaching 16 yr olds mountain skills and 18 yr olds mountain skills?? The army boys were between 18-25 yrs old on average. NOt that much older than Ridge Creek participants. But you seem to have a problem with ex Army people working with children? why is that? Are they somehow bad people?

[SHH]

Damn Dysfunction quit reading crap that isnt there did I say his experience was invalid? NO..I said I was sorry he felt uncomfortable and that Yes Dawson Co. is bad for racism. I never called him a liar so quit twisting my damn words around AGAIN to fit YOUR agenda. It's getting redundant. Why dont you actually read what I type instead of reading what you want into it?

[Deborah]

Your arrogance of opinion astounds me. I don?t know SHH. Perhaps you could tell me why a person might feel defrauded if they paid for a Cadillac and was delivered a Geo Prism.

The program was sold as a ?Wilderness Leadership Program? and NOT a boot camp. Why ex-military?

While you?re elaborating, you might also address why the state thinks it might be important for the Director and Staff to have some credentials in the mental health/social science fields and experience working with youth. Can you imagine why they might think that was important? Or that Outdoor Therapeutic Camps be licensed?

You might also explain why the Dir of Counseling at HLA told me that Antonio told her that wilderness programs in Ga weren't required to be licensed. Perhaps they assumed so since HLA had operated 7 years without a license.

290-2-7-.02 Applicability. Amended.
(1) No person, institution, agency, society or facility shall operate a Therapeutic Camp unless a license or permit has been obtained from the Department.

290-2-7-.04 Personnel. Amended.
(3) The Administrator or Executive Director shall have a masters degree from an accredited college or university and a minimum of three years of increasingly responsible experience in the human service, mental health or health care field, or a Bachelors Degree plus 5 years experience in the field of child care, human services, mental health, at least 2 of which includes supervisory and/or administrative responsibility.

(7) The staff member with primary responsibility for planning, developing, implementing treatment services, supervising staff who deliver the treatment and ancillary services, and developing in-service training shall have a master's degree in psychology, social work, education or other related fields and experience and/or training in working with children in an outdoor therapeutic environment.

(15) Child care staff shall be at least 4 years older than the oldest child in their group, have a high school education or an equivalency and experience in working with children in a group setting. Former campers employed as staff shall be at least 21 years of age.

290-2-7-.05 Admission and Intake Policies. Amended.
(4) The Therapeutic Camp shall not admit a camper who has not had a medical examination by a licensed physician within 30 days prior to admission.
[When my son refused the physical he was sent anyway and told he?d have to ?suffer the consequences?.]

(6) The Therapeutic Camp shall not accept a Camper for care until a psychological or psychiatric evaluation and an intake study has been made and based on an analysis and recommendation of the social service worker with approval of the Administrator has determined that the placement meets the needs and best interests of the camper.  [Who does the psych evaluations for HLA when they make a referral to RC? My son didn?t have one prior to RC or HLA for that matter.]

FYI, my son was 14. And no, I would not choose for him to be 'trained' by ex-military. Guys who play war games in the woods for entertainment... or preparation for the white revolution???

[SHH Anon Classics]

So are you trying to insinuate that the ex military members are white supremacists??? LMAO....I am sure the Army rangers would LOVE to hear that one.....I already told you that the woods are NOT FULL of white supremacists in Lumpkin Co...ONE racist bastard does not a racist county make....DUH! Just because the ass decided to retire to Lumpkin Co does not mean the woods are full of them...GEEZ how much of a generalization is that?? And to insinuate that somehow the Army Rangers are training for anything other than Army stuff is bizarre. What I did say about Keith was that as a director..he was not required to be a psychologist...if you will LOOK at the website ridgecreek.org they do have counselors....the only one I know personally though is Cheryl. She was my neighbor for a time. I already also told you that I am unfamiliar with most of Ridge Creek since it opened after I left. I know nothing about requirements for bootcamps or for wilderness camps. But I still dont see a problem with ex Army doing the wilderness part...as long as they have counselors to do the counseling. It would be unfeasible for every member to be a counselor...some counselors have no experience with wilderness activities and some wilderness people have no experience with counseling. Of course those doing counseling should have experience, that wasnt my point. My point was the director doesnt have to be a counselor.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-04-17 10:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"So are you trying to insinuate that the ex military members are white supremacists??? LMAO....I am sure the Army rangers would LOVE to hear that one.....I already told you that the woods are NOT FULL of white supremacists in Lumpkin Co...ONE racist bastard does not a racist county make....DUH! Just because the ass decided to retire to Lumpkin Co does not mean the woods are full of them...GEEZ how much of a generalization is that?? And to insinuate that somehow the Army Rangers are training for anything other than Army stuff is bizarre. What I did say about Keith was that as a director..he was not required to be a psychologist...if you will LOOK at the website ridgecreek.org they do have counselors....the only one I know personally though is Cheryl. She was my neighbor for a time. I already also told you that I am unfamiliar with most of Ridge Creek since it opened after I left. I know nothing about requirements for bootcamps or for wilderness camps. But I still dont see a problem with ex Army doing the wilderness part...as long as they have counselors to do the counseling. It would be unfeasible for every member to be a counselor...some counselors have no experience with wilderness activities and some wilderness people have no experience with counseling. Of course those doing counseling should have experience, that wasnt my point. My point was the director doesnt have to be a counselor. "

A "retired" white supremacist?  DAMN you're dense.  He was a Grand Dragon of the KKK, then he became a member of the National Alliance, whose HEADQUARTERS are in Dahlonega.  Must have a membership of one, I guess.

I should read YOUR posts?  YOU should read your posts.  YOU DO GEORGIA PROUD!

You are so misinformed it's not even funny.  Wait, can you read this with your blinders on?  Maybe not.

[Deborah]

Everyone will rest easy now that you have assured us that the mountains are not 'full of racists'. Did you miss this:
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=90#95965

I don?t know what the Mt Rangers are up to on their excursion to the woods, hence the question marks? And, I feel certain that you don?t either. I do find it odd that grown men like to play war games. But, as long as they leave me and my family alone, I have no problem with their shinanigans.

From their website:
Standing Orders   Major Robert Rogers, 1759
 
Don't forget nothing.
Have your musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, sixty rounds powder and ball, and be ready to march at a minute's warning.
When you're on the march, act the way you would if you was sneaking up on a deer. See the enemy first.  Tell the truth about what you see and do. There is an army depending on us for correct information. You can lie all you please when you tell other folks about the Rangers, but don't never lie to a Ranger or officer.
 
Don't never take a chance you don't have to.
When we're on the march we march single file, far enough apart so one shot can't go through two men.
If we strike swamps, or soft ground, we spread out abreast, so it's hard to track us.
When we march, we keep moving til dark, so as to give the enemy the least possible chance at us.
 
When we camp, half the party stays awake while the other half sleeps.
If we take prisoners, we keep 'em separate til we have had time to examine them, so they can't cook up a story between 'em.
Don't ever march home the same way. Take a different route so you won't be ambushed.  No matter whether we travel in big parties or little ones, each party has to keep a scout 20 yards ahead, twenty yards on each flank and twenty
yards in the rear, so the main body can't be surprised and wiped out.
Every night you'll be told where to meet if surrounded by a superior force.
 
Don't sit down to eat without posting sentries.
 
Don't sleep beyond dawn. Dawn's when the French and Indians attack.
 
Don't cross a river by a regular ford.
If somebody's trailing you, make a circle, come back onto your own tracks, and ambush the folks that aim to ambush you.
Don't stand up when the enemy's coming against you. Kneel down. Hide behind a tree.
Let the enemy come till he's almost close enough to touch. Then let him have it and jump out and finish him up with your hatchet.
 
Notes from one of their rendezvous http://mountain.armyranger.org/PC2000.htm
The Penn Cove Rendezvous is an annual event the takes place in early April that provides an opportunity for Rangers young and old to
fellowship together in a familiar environment--the cold-damp woods.