Important Points

[Anonymous]

Some of you saw the posting of Joyce?s email?and it was taken off due to some privacy issues. That?s decent in that respect, however, some really important points are missing that should?ve been derived from that email. Leaving poor Zita out of it, lets focus on some of Joyce?the following is from that posting!

?We had to search her book bag each day, because she would sneak clothes out and change at school, rather than
 wear the nice clothes that were appropriate for school?

?We had to block all TV stations that play that type of music on her TV set in her room.?

?She told her teachers how MEAN I am and that she shouldn't be telling the teachers that or Child Protective Services would come to our house AGAIN. OF COURSE the teachers are required by law to report any parent who beats their child, so I was falsely reported for the second time.?

?I haven't thrown up my hands saying I GIVE UP,   but I am very very tired.?

[Erinys]

Anyone else here old enough to remember the "Hair Wars" of the late 60s and 70s?

Most of the fellows who fought on the front lines of those battles don't have much hair left anymore anyway.

And of course the burning and banning of Beatles records.  (Way before Sgt Pepper and Helter Skelter too.)

How 'bout the women in pants brouhaha?  What can the  world be coming to?

I myself observed my female peers gathering in the school ladies room to discard brassieres, or to stuff them.  They would change outfits completely too, then change back before going home.

And most of these disrepectful, verging on delinquency youngsters grew up well enough to get all exercised over the hairstyles, baggy pants and pop culture tastes of their kids.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

-As it was in the beginning, is now , and forever shall be, World without end, Amen

The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker

[Gmom]

So what?

[Anonymous]

I fail to see what this has to do with the accusations against Whitmore.  Every single kid placed at Whitmore had issues.  You could pull any file and find private information on any of them.  I would even venture a guess that several of them threatened to call CPS.  That is a standard tactic of many troubled teens.  Mine threatened too.  I pulled the phone book out and said "call it!" You had no right to post private information again.  Give it a rest, the information is irrelevent!  If this is the best you can do to keep putting the focus on Joyce, it is getting old and quite frankly annoying!

[Cayo Hueso]

Aside from the fact that you're a complete asshat for posting PRIVATE emails.....AGAIN.....how exactly is this supposed to make Joyce a child abuser?  What's so "important" about those points?

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[BuzzKill]

This is a common program tactic - Deflection.
If they can get you thinking and talking about how awful the kids and/or the parents are, you will not be thinking and talking about the program.
WWASP does this a lot.
Someone learned their lesson well.

And I agree, the posting of the email - Again - is a very ass holish thing to do.

As for the Hair wars - Ha! Oh yes, I do recall. I am married to Western High's "Hair Bear" - the first guy to grow it long and get away with it. His Mom went to bat for him. Stood toe to toe with the princapal, and said he could wear his hair anyway he wanted - it was His head! He was Hair, or Hair Bear,  for many years there-after.
No one around me burnt bras or Beatle albums tho.

[Anonymous]

Again, who is being investigated for child abuse? think their name is Sudweeks! Don't think the police investigate a parent for searching a bookbag!





























 :wave:  :wave:

[Erinys]

Hair is hair, everybodys got some...And somehow the grooming of hair, its presence or absence,  becomes a hotbutton issue every generation.  If your kid is having a real problem, a trip to the salon ain't gonna fix it. If a trip to the salon is the fix it's the PARENT who's got the problem.

It's just as easy to buy drugs or get drunk in a polo shirt and khakis as it is in a black trench coat. (I never was so whacked out in my life as that time when I was wearing the navyblue kneelength pleated skirt and crisp white blouse.) And don't get your panties in a wad over foundation garments.

In other words try to focus on the REAL substance, not the style. You can waste a lot of energy trying to make things conform to an appearance, while missing real issues.

One of the things that the Programs do is to replace critical thinking with conformity of appearances  (to whatever ethic that Program decides is correct.)  Then the victim is left confused and adrift , without analytical tools for the real world. This is one reason for the expressions of loyalty to "The Program" They can't imagine or handle life without it.

If we choose to violate the rights of the innocent in order to discover and act against the guilty, then we have transformed our country into a police state and abandoned one of the fundamental tenants of a free society. In order to win the war on drugs, we must not sacrifice the life of the Constitution in the battle.
--US District Judge H. Lee Sarokin

[Anonymous]

posting quotes from the private email is as dispicable as the original posting. the point being--joyce harris is not the issue on this fo
rum. whitmore academy is. what is happening to the kids there, and what happened to the kids who are home now is the issue. seems like deflecting everyone's attention onto joyce harris seems to be the sudweeks' one and only defense. says a lot, doesen't it?

the sudweeks are being investigated for child abuse and sexual abuse, the next thing we know this formum gets filled up with calling joyce harris a child abuser and sexual abuser. wow! what next? will she be the one neglecting the sudweeks' horses there if things don't check out on that horse that died there in october? probably,gotta blame somebody !

[Antigen]

Anon, [sigh] I'm really up in the air about this. This is not quite the level of confidential info that I originally decided to delete. And I apreciate your leaving that stuff out. But this is still ill-gotten info. I don't want to get into a game of cat and mouse here. But please let's try and keep to the high ground.

Thanks, Erinys, for spotting the substance here. I get just exactly what you're saying.

I don't think this is about making Joyce a child abuser. Everybody knows that CPS is routinely used for vindication. It's sad when a kid does it to hack off their parents, sadder when the authorities fall for it and do real harm. Usually, the kid never had any clue what could happen once they turned CI on their parents, or even that that's what they were doing anyway. But I've also heard fully grown adults shouting at each other over their front lawns "Oh yeah, bitch? Well I'm gonna call HRS on yew!" Now THAT is tragic!

Nobody who's been paying attention at all is going to believe that a report of child abuse is the same thing as actual child abuse.

But the other issue, that every kid in any of these programs has issues? I don't buy that for a minute! All these kids really have in common is parents who think their kids are messed up.

Yeah, hair wars. When I was a kid, Alice Cooper posters, t-shirts or other paraphernalia
were sure signs. So I got into Jesus Christ Super Star real heavy. Not that I liked the music so much, just that it really confused my mom, and that was the point. I really did like Tubular Bells, though. Hadn't seen the movie, so I didn't make that connection. But scaring the shit out of my mom was really just an unexpected perk.

I think it's worth discussing what kinds of problems bring people to the point where they'll fall for this scam. It's also WELL worth noting that, at least in the case of the Sudweeks, the people who offer help and support to these troubled parents are not very trustworthy. Whatever any of you may have told the Suds, and whatever they may have gotten your kid to say or even just made up out of whole cloth is, evidently, fair game as amunition in this war. At least in their eyes it is. And I doubt that anybody's going to really hold them accountable. But at least future prospects have a chance of finding out ahead of time, so maybe this whole ugly brawl isn't a total waste.

Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

ginger, you are so right. Now future prospects do have a lot to read about if they are checking out the Whitmore. Previously, they just had glossy brochures, and a referring company that just wasn't presenting the clear picture of this "school." Let some prospective parents read some of this stuff written by these students--that should make them think twice--OR about a hundred times before signing their kid up!!!! Let them read a few of these parents' post. If they only believe 1% of these complaints---it should make them keep their kids home and say: don't think for one minute I want to be in those stupid parents' shoes!

[Anonymous]

You think you are so clever ANTI you have done this so long that you think you can manipulate all these people to believe what you say. You are a HUGE manipulater. Posting what you want deleting what you want. Bashing who you dont want people to believe and praising those who agree with you. YOU ARE SOO GOOD. I feel sorry for you. No matter how hard you Try you cant seem to stop the Sudweeks supporters. I think that bothers you. Being the FAIR person you try to make us believe you are, It wouldnt be hard to see what kind of people the Sudweeks REALLY are. I think you are like your friend Joyce, you are jealous you cant be the loving people they are. You are so consumed with hate and bitterness to your parents and now any parents who do what yours did, that you have devoted your life to making sure everyone is as miserable as you. You hated your program so much that you just WONT believe there is actually a place out there that could have helped you. I believe you are a tool in the devils hands to bring about his work. That scares me, especially when i see that there is more than one of you. It scares me when we have grandmas mothers and vulnerable teenagers playing into your manipulation. You have tryed to discredited everything you can about the Sudweeks. It has all been below the belt. It is obvious to any one with reason, that almost 5 MONTHS has gone by since the Sudweeks were questioned about abuse. Do you really think those 40 children would still be allowed to stay if any thing you are saying was going on. NOOOOOOO. You are not stupid you know the truth. The truth about it is what bothers you. You are not like them so you HATE them. They are not like you but im sure they would find a way to love you like they do everyone else. Its not to late for you Ginger. You can Change. I live by these people. I see them everyday. Those kids are HAPPY. The Sudweeks are not what you are trying to make them out to be. How dare you run their religion in the ground. We are American. This country was founded on freedom of worship. What are you thinking exploiting their sacred practices. Really how dare you. Leave these good people alone and quit waisting your time tearing apart what is obviously working for most of them. So what if they dont suceed with all their kids. Even God had a rebelious son. You seem to be useing alot of his same tactics. Just for once stop and think about what i am saying. You are so quick to come back with deep and cutting remarks

[Anonymous]

well put. Tell me do you know if Ginger or Anti owns this site. Is it true they get donations from people. Is this what she does for a job? Do you know if she has children. are they being ignored while she posts all day on this site? This is worse than a soap

[Anonymous]

WOW this is unbelievable!
The Sudweeks are being investigated for FRAUD, etc, child abuse, sexual abuse.
First they go after Joyce Harris - accusing her of being everything from a semi-whore to a child abuser and child molester, herself...GOTTA DEFLECT EVERYTHING AWAY FROM THE SUDS....RIGHT??

Then they step over every legal, moral ethical ground there is by posting confidential records about a 12 year old little girl...and Ginger does the correct, legal thing by deleting it.

And BTW--I don't see Joyce Harris retaliating and posting the Sudweeks little 12 year old boy's name all over the internet...and the Sudweeks DO have a little boy living in that Whitmore MESS YOU KNOW? and everyone has heard about all the sex, drugs, fights etc that go on at that place. Should CPS be making a vist there to check on THAT 12 year old?

And no one chose the Mormon faith for the Sudweeks except themeselves. AND no teenagers would KNOW they wore the "garments" if they did not parade around in them in front of a bunch of teenage boys and girls. None of my kids teenage friends know what KIND OF UNDERWEAR I WEAR!

And know what?  It just might not be any of your business what Ginger Warbis does to earn money, or how many kids she has, or who tends to them while she works on this forum.  Why do YOU care anyway.  

AND why do YOU assume she and Joyce Harris are friends?  You sure seem to have a shallow definition of friendship.  Read a post, Joyce said she "had never met the lady."

Here's the deal- The Sudweeks have some REAL PROBLEMS.  ATTACKING GINGER WARBIS makes them look even MORE STUPID than their attack on Joyce Harris....and that is pretty stupid in itself.

These people need to get a grip!

[Joyce Harris]

I do not need to defend Ginger Warbis by any means---and we are not personal friends, but I she is someoone I would choose to be friends with. I apprectiate her honesty, sense of fairness, humor and caring attitude towards the kids who post here.

I would never interfer with the Sudweeks' minor children they have living at the Whitmore Academy. I understand they have two minor children there. That most certainly is not my place, and I have no idea of how they conduct themselves with their own children, and I have never observed their personal parenting skills.

Those minor children deserve respect, and privacy--something I wish the Sudweeks had granted to my daughter. The Sudweeks' children are just that: CHILDREN.