Hidden Lake academy

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-26 16:41:00, Deborah wrote:

I would imagine that the majority, if not all, of kids ?didn?t want to be there?. So one should discount all the testimonies, even though they all sound familiar?

Yeah, isn't that a pretty clear example of Program pretzel logic? Normally, when a majority (especially a vast majority) agree about something, we tend to think they might be onto something. But not Program people, nope! If the majority agree about anything contrary to Program dogma, then it constitutes proof that they're wrong.

There's so much comedy on television.  Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett

[SHH]

Well my guess on why they didnt return your phone calls might have been that you didnt have full custody of your son and maybe legally they were not able to call you back? just a guess there. I dont know for sure on that one. And the best thing to do would be to talk to HLA on how to improve things, or send them letters if they wont return your calls at this late stage in the game since your son hasnt been there in a long time. And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen. That would be more like 24-36 times a year. And yes posters on here have suggested that HLA was a rat hole and should be burned to the ground and made into a parking lot. I saw that post. And no my motivations are not child support. You dont even know IF I get child support. WE might have joint custody with no child support. My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt. [ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-04-26 18:50 ]

[SHH]

Majority??? Antigen surely you jest. This is a message board with maybe.....10 or 15 people who agree with Robert and Dysfunction and Deborah. HARDLY a majority. Hundreds of kids graduate from HLA every year. Are they all on this board? are their parents? Is every former employee on this board? Nope. From the looks of it maybe 5%. Yea thats a majority alright. In who's world? And you have to remember something. I am not a "program" anything. I was a former clerical employee and former spouse of an employee, and a resident for 4 years. Not a program anything. I never attended classes to learn program techniques, never saw any sort of "program" rules. Never was forced to preach a certain dogma. Nothing of the sort. Nobody told me to say or not say or do or not do anything. To me the math speaks for itself. This board is a VERY small minority of people who werent happy with the results of the program, didnt like working there, or didnt like (in the case of students) being made to do what they were told or be made to do chores. And possibly had encounters with employees in the past who werent good for the school and have since been fired. (as in case of Rudy, etc). Nope this is definately not a majority. And Dr. B did not open the wilderness camp to keep money in his pockets. And the wilderness program was in the works for 2 yrs prior to opening. He opened it to give the kids a better place then the places out west. Nobody is trying to run the place illegally and sneak by with stuff. They do what they can to comply with whatever they need to. Its obviously not good enough for some people.

[SHH]

I didnt get any personal info on Robert from HLA. I happen to have figured out who he is myself from info he gave out and from other ways. But I chose not to post it on here after saying I would becasue he continues to call me Mrs. Gray after I asked him not to about 100 times. I decided it would be tacky to post it so I changed my mind.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-26 18:24:00, SHH wrote:

 My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt.

As so many people hold so many different views on so many different topics, that goes w/o saying. So why must you keep repeating it? And, of course, you post here too. Maybe we shouldn't believe you.

The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

[SHH]

Maybe you shouldnt..but I am still posting the truth about what I do know about and my experiences,whereas I happen to know that some posts on here arent exactly truthful. Maybe thats the difference that I want to point out. And yes they have the right to post what they want, I understand that. But I have that right too. And should be considered as evenly as others.

[Deborah]

***I didnt get any personal info on Robert from HLA. I happen to have figured out who he is myself from info he gave out and from other ways.

And how do you know where he lives?

Don't you mean that your husband 'changed your mind'? That's what I recall.[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-26 21:33 ]

[SHH Anon Classics]

I did not see Hidden Lake Academy on this website. They aren't on their watch list.

[Deborah]

***Well my guess on why they didnt return your phone calls might have been that you didnt have full custody of your son and maybe legally they were not able to call you back? just a guess there. I dont know for sure on that one.

Interesting, in another post you stated that as fact. Where are you getting your information? Is HLA providing you with (inaccurate) information about ex-parents as well?  Even if your ?guess? were correct, parents who share custody have rights. You should know that, having been divorced.
What a hoot... if you were the ill informed patsy, set up to keep 'bickering' going here which distracts from more important discussion.

***And the best thing to do would be to talk to HLA on how to improve things, or send them letters if they wont return your calls at this late stage in the game since your son hasnt been there in a long time.

You can?t be serious. They wouldn?t talk to me when my son was there. And you want to suggest that they will warmly receive and act upon my ?suggestions for a better program? after the fact. Could you be more creative? So, in effect? stop posting here and send my suggestions/ complaints to them. You?re a hoot, SHH.

***And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen. That would be more like 24-36 times a year.

SHH wrote: Ive personally eaten at the school probably more than 50 times and thought it was fine. It was my mother in laws cooking for the first few years! LOL
Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#82331

50 times in seven years. That seems real near about 7 times a year. Do you have returning, failing, or selective memory?

***And yes posters on here have suggested that HLA was a rat hole and should be burned to the ground and made into a parking lot. I saw that post.

Do you understand ?figure of speech??

***And no my motivations are not child support. You dont even know IF I get child support. WE might have joint custody with no child support.

No, I don?t. Hence the question mark. Just seemed logical, cause it is clearly NOT about the kids.

***My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt.

Do you have proof that this forum is that 'effective'? How many do you suppose are 'believing lies'? I'm guessing that there are a few who might look closer, but I personally imagine that the large majority of parents want/need to believe in HLA, just like yourself.

I would also like to point out that you have again chosen to avoid the more difficult questions I posed.

[Deborah]

***Majority??? Antigen surely you jest. This is a message board with maybe.....10 or 15 people who agree with Robert and Dysfunction and Deborah. HARDLY a majority.
 
Why single out Robert, myself, and DJ?  

***Hundreds of kids graduate from HLA every year.

Careful with those exaggerations SHH. With 150 -175 kids there at any given time, how do they graduate 'hundreds' every year. Half my son?s PG left before graduation. And from what I'm told that is not unique. We aren?t hearing from those folks, either.
IF, they had 70 PGs to date, at full capacity (18), and all graduated, that would be 126 per year. Not to mention, they graduate every 2 years.

***To me the math speaks for itself.

Indeed it does, when you input accurate numbers.

RC was in the planning for two years, and no one bothered to check with the state regarding licensing? Poor planning. Every program owner in the industry KNOWS they are required to be licensed. They avoid it as long as possible. Take a slap on the hand, rather than the very steep fines allowed by law, and move on.


[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-04-26 21:44 ]

[juniper]

Not on site 'yet'.  If they need to be, they will
be, the truth about the school is important, to
come out either way.  To lay things to rest.
However, Isaccorp. cannot investigate without
input.  Again, contact [email protected] if
you have a complaint about any school. thanks

[SHH]

1) HLA isnt giving me anything. I told you and the other posters I found this site on my own. Nobody is telling me what to say, giving me info, or instructing me to be anybody's "patsy" as you call it. If they wanted to see what was on here or post on here they would I suppose. I am not their employee or involved in the school anymore. I am posting because I feel things are being twisted around and I feel its unfair because I used to live there and I guess I take it personal that a place I enjoyed being involved with and enjoyed living there is being slandered.

2) I know where Robert lives because of another post on another board by an anonymous person that listed his city. (dont know his street address and dont want or need to know it). And because I already knew what state he was from from figuring out which student he was, that further verified it. I have no idea if HLA knows who he is or cares who he is. LIke I said, I dont know how much they come to this board if any.

3) The number of times I ate in the kitchen was a guess when I first posted a month or two ago. When I thought about it here more recently, I realized I had eaten there more than 50 times over the course of 7 yrs. (more during the last 4 since I lived there) For the first 3 yrs I lived 45 minutes south of Dahlonega and didnt go up there except on the weekends to visit the in-laws and for my husband to do weekend work up there, or for school functions.

4) Hundreds graduating every year was probably a little bit of a high number, but if you have on average 10-12 kids graduating out of every peer group and you have 70 peer groups(I think thats what you typed) that would be 700-840 kids after graduating the last peer group. My point, which obviously was missed, wasnt the precise number, but the fact that I dont see 700 kids posting on here that the school is an abusive, disgusting facility. I see 10-15. Antigen said the majority felt the same way about the school being a bad place, and I cant see how she can even calculate what she sees on here as a majority of feelings about the school. There are a ton of websites out there listing abusive facilities. There is only 1 website that lists HLA as a possibly abusive place, (the HEAL website). And even some of the things on there are assumptions that they decided to post without verifying facts.

5)I singled out you, Robert & Dysfunction because you 3 in particular post the most frequently about your negative opinion of the school and I just used it as an example. That was why I did that. I guess I could throw in Antigen in there too but since she has never visited the school or was ever associated with it in a personal way I didnt put her in there. It was just used as an example, thats all.

6) Your custody status was not given to me by anybody. I figured out from your numerous postings the situation. Because of what you said about only your ex talking to them, them not returning your calls, etc, it is possible he told them not to return your calls or talk to you about the issue and possible that they felt since you didnt have custody they could get in trouble legally by talking to you and not the father.If he had physical custody his word would weigh in more than yours. If your postings did not show the true picture then I am mistaken, but that is what it appears to be from your postings.

If HLA wanted someone to post on here for them, you can bet they wouldnt be using someone's ex wife so that idea that I am their patsy is sort of goofy dont you think? LOL This was my choice, good or bad  but still my own choice. I dont know if any other questions were posed recently to me, but those are what I was reading just now that needed to be responded to. I have to take my father to the doctor and then work late tonight so wont be on here to answer anything for a day or so.

[Troll Control]

Thanks to all of you who have picked up the yoke in dealing with SHH's "inaccuracies."  Not an easy job, is it?

She LOVES to avoid answering ANY questions directly.  When no one challenges her, she's got "inside access," but when challenged, defaults to "I never claimed to be a counselor, did I?"

To answer your earlier question, Deborah, NO, SHH never participated in any groups or had any relationships with residents there other than a passing "hello."  That's how she became an expert on how the kids feel.

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-27 05:15:00, SHH wrote:

 My point, which obviously was missed, wasnt the precise number, but the fact that I dont see 700 kids posting on here that the school is an abusive, disgusting facility.

There are 2255 users total; many belong to ppl who use multiple names, many are just bogus spamdexing profiles.

Of those, only a few have ever posted regarding any firsthand info on HLA. But the prevailing opinion among former students, parents and staff seems to be decidedly negative.

Again, has it occured to you that their perceptions are more accurate or better informed than yours? It is possible, ya' know!

It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[RobertBruce]

******I posted MY PERSONAL experiences on here..not yours. But you act like I am not allowed to post or type because they dont agree with your view of the school.******

No bitch thats your philosphy. You called me and others liars on numerous occasions. Dont get mad now when I do the same thing to you. Espically since its been shown over and over again my testimony about the school has far more credibility than yours. I was forced to be there and had to experience it day in day out. You just lived on the property away from campus and mailed out report cards. You had nothing to do with the students or our day to day life, nor are you qualified to comment on it.

*****What I didnt do was see them in their dorms or attend their counseling sessions or classes. THat still makes my experiences valid does it not?

No retard it doesnt, counseling sessions, classes and being in the dorms were the biggest parts of our time at HLA. What else was there for you to observe? You said earlier you had nothing to do with restrictions or work assingments, so what...you saw us in the cafeteria? Wow you really knew us through and through, you know you sound exactly like Witherspoon.

" And I never said I was in the cafeteria 7 times a year. I was in there if I was to guess..probably two or three times a month, more when my mother in law worked in the kitchen."

Seriously youre full of shit. No one remembers you, because you were never around. Let me ask you though why is it you claim you ate in the cafeteria 2-3 times a month, but Fat Bill didnt? I know for a fact he usually ate off campus.

"My motivation is that posts on here arent necessarily true and people are believing them when they shouldnt"

Or convincing them of your bull shit instead the reality of the situation that we offer. Oh excuse me the bull shit youve been instructed to spew off.

"This board is a VERY small minority of people who werent happy with the results of the program, didnt like working there, or didnt like (in the case of students) being made to do what they were told or be made to do chores. And possibly had encounters with employees in the past who werent good for the school and have since been fired"

Being made to do what we were told? Being made to do chores? Mrs. Grey you assume way to much, I had to do all of that stuff at home. If thats all it was it would have been no different. No I didnt like HLA because I recognized it for what it was. I didnt like being held against my will, or told every single day I was a sick person who had issues ( all while never being told exactly what those issues were or what actions I was committing which illuminated them). I didnt like a place that sought to silence us at any cost and called any complaint against the school a form of "manipulation". I didnt like being told every thought and feeling and opinion I had was wrong and thus I was a bad person, and I didnt like having my rights violated and freedoms removed, I didnt like watching a group of hypocrites go on and on about how manipulative we all were all while parents and government officals were regurally lied to.  I assure you Mrs. Grey if you had actually ever talked to other students (which as we all know you never did) you would know full well students didnt dislike the school simply because we had to "do chores", idiot.

"Nobody is trying to run the place illegally and sneak by with stuff. They do what they can to comply with whatever they need to. Its obviously not good enough for some people."

Are you sure Mrs. Grey? I gave the information you would need to confirm the fact that HLA has been lying to the state about their pourpose and avoiding regs and proper licensure? How could they after so many years not know of this?

"Maybe you shouldnt..but I am still posting the truth about what I do know about and my experiences,whereas I happen to know that some posts on here arent exactly truthful. Maybe thats the difference that I want to point out. And yes they have the right to post what they want, I understand that. But I have that right too. And should be considered as evenly as others. "

You didnt extend people that courtesy before, dont expect to recieve it now.

"I know where Robert lives because of another post on another board by an anonymous person that listed his city. (dont know his street address and dont want or need to know it). And because I already knew what state he was from from figuring out which student he was, that further verified it. I have no idea if HLA knows who he is or cares who he is. LIke I said, I dont know how much they come to this board if any.
"

Hmmm I find this interesting Mrs. Grey, since I dont live in the same state I lived in when I attended HLA how could you have made this corelation? Tell me also how could you have simply "guessed" as to my identity without recieving outside information? Ive told you we met only once and then briefly, during that conversation I told you nothing about my personal life, I would assume you dont have access to former students records. So elaborate further, what basis did you have from the limited comments I made about myself to determine who I am. I mean honestly Mrs. Grey a person of your level of inteligence isnt capable of such feats on your own. So assuming that you arent just talking out your ass..again and do know who I am, lets be honest. Fat Bill let you know didnt he? I mean youre claiming that HLA doesnt moniter these sites, but as we know from Marlas experience they sure do, not to mention M. Quick and of course Lynn. Cant all be coincidences now can they, but again Mrs. Grey "tackiness" aside lets see if you cant back up your statement with just one little detail, I doubt it.