Author Topic: They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable  (Read 10658 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2005, 11:53:00 AM »
My student went to a charter summer school to catch up with state requirements upon return and then re-entered old school.  The match there isn't great, but student wanted to put past behind and be a "normal" kid.  

The education was another disappointment at BCA, which goes to show that just because someone talks about the "whole" child and drops names like Howard Gardner's on a  web site doesn't mean that a parent should just assume that everybody is talking the same language and has the same educational philosophies & methods as you think you are signing up for.... I could never get a handle on it and had other more pressing concerns. Did you get a copy of your student's "individualized" ed plan?  I did......  

We left before we could actually figure out what was going on, but that was an issue for us, as was communication on the issue. We did have some great interactions with one teacher, but she wasn't in the position to address our systemic questions. I could never figure out what was going on in the assessment and work on the farm phase or how individual strengths/needs were addressed in the plan in a measurable way.  But, we "pulled" fairly early on in the educational process.    

Quote
On 2005-04-23 19:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How many more years of HS does your student have?  The academics were not very strong for my student and has some catching up to do. No nightmares, seems fine."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2005, 12:33:00 PM »
Do you still have your BCA Parent Handbook?  In the section under Academic Services it discusses Howard Gardenr, the "whole child" educational philosophy, etc.  

Sounded like what we were looking for... Was it there and did it work for you?

"http://www.cedu2.com/a/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=101


Article authored by Al Tuck, Master Teacher

CEDU Academics is purposefully designed to help meet the unique learning needs of CEDU students. In that context, you are probably familiar with phrases like "experiential education," "arts infusion," and "multiple intelligences." This article is designed to provide some detailed information on the latter.

Howard Gardner conceived the concept of multiple intelligences, and it essentially focuses on the fact that not everyone learns in the same way. In his original work, Gardner identified seven distinct ways that people learn. Since then, an eighth has been added and a ninth one is under serious consideration. Following this introduction is a detailed summary (from Gardner and other sources) of the characteristics of each of these nine learning styles, or intelligences.

Most people can identify two or three areas that stand out for them as learners. Take a look at these special intelligence indicators and identify your own learning style or that of your child. While many believe that we should focus primarily on the styles that come easily and naturally to the student, research has shown that these more comfortable styles only open the gates to learning. Gardner and others have emphasized that, when lessons are learned and reinforced in a not-so-comfortable style as well, information is far more likely to be retained.

How does CEDU Academics incorporate this information into its educational philosophy? Within a few weeks after their arrival, CEDU High School and Middle School students are specifically tested by our Academic Services Advisor to determine their individual learning styles. This information is then made available to the CEDU faculty via our weekly staff meetings. With this invaluable information, our teachers are equipped to adapt lesson presentations, classroom activities, testing materials, and assessment techniques to match the unique learning styles of their students.

The following performance indicators with your children in mind, and try to identify those areas in which they seem to fit most comfortably. You might be surprised by the results. How do they compare with the areas that are more compatible with your own learning styles?

Special Intelligence Indicators Linguistic Intelligence - (Word Smart)
- Writes better than average for their age
- Spins tales and tells jokes and stories
- Has a good memory for names, places, dates, and trivia
- Enjoys word games
- Spells words accurately
- Appreciates nonsense rhymes, puns, tongue twisters, etc.
- Enjoys listening to the spoken word
- Has a good vocabulary for his/her age
- Communicates to others in a highly verbal way

These learners have highly developed auditory skills and are generally elegant speakers. They think in words rather than pictures. Possible career interests: Poet, journalist, writer, teacher, lawyer, politician, translator.

Logical-Mathematical Intelligence - (Number Smart)
- Asks a lot of questions about how things work
- Computes arithmetic questions in his/her head quickly
- Enjoys the challenges of math class
- Finds math games and math computer games interesting
- Enjoys playing chess, checkers, or other strategy games
- Enjoys working with logic puzzles and brainteasers
- Likes to experiment in a way that shows higher order thinking processes
- Thinks on more abstract levels than peers
- Has a good sense of cause and effect relationships for his/her age

These learners think conceptually in logical and numerical patterns making connections between pieces of information. Always curious about the world around them, these learners ask lots of questions and like to do experiments. Possible career paths: Scientists, engineers, computer programmers, researchers, accountants, mathematicians.

Musical Intelligence -(Music Smart)
- Tells you when music is off-key or disturbing in some other way
- Remembers the melody of songs
- Has a good singing voice
- Plays a musical instrument or sings in a choir or other musical group
- Has a rhythmic way of speaking and/or moving
- Unconsciously hums to him/herself
- Taps rhythmically on the table or desk as he/she works
- Is sensitive to the environmental noises, like rain of the roof
- Can easily imitate the voices and inflections of others

These musically inclined learners think in sounds, rhythms and patterns. They immediately respond to music either appreciating or criticizing what they hear. Many of these learners are extremely sensitive to environmental sounds (e.g. crickets, bells, dripping taps). Possible career paths: Musician, disc jockey, singer, composer.

Spatial Intelligence - (Picture Smart)
- Reports clear visual images
- Reads maps, charts, and diagrams more easily than text
- Daydreams more than peers
- Enjoys art activities
- Draws figures and pictures that are advanced for age
- Likes to view movies, slides, or other visual presentations
- Enjoys doing puzzles, mazes, ?Where?s Waldo?? or ?hidden picture? or ?I spy? type activities, and challenges like hidden pictures or similar games
- Builds interesting three-dimensional constructions for age (Legos)
- Gets more out of pictures than words when reading
- Doodles on workbooks, worksheets, or other materials

These learners tend to think in pictures and need to create vivid mental images to retain information. They enjoy looking at maps, charts, pictures, videos, and movies. Possible career interests: Navigators, sculptors, visual artists, inventors, architects, interior designers, mechanics, engineers.

Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (Body Smart)
- Excels in one or more sports
- Moves, twitches, taps, fidgets while seated for a long time in one spot
- Cleverly mimics other people?s gestures and mannerisms
- Loves to take things apart and put them back together again
- Has trouble keeping his/her hands off something new just seen
- Enjoys jumping, wrestling, or similar activities
- Shows skill on a craft or good fine-motor
coordination in other ways
- Has dramatic way of expressing him/herself - Reports different physical sensations while thinking or working
- Enjoys working with clay or other tactile medium, and enjoys hands on art activities

These learners express themselves through movement. They have a good sense of balance and eye-hand coordination. (e.g. ball play, balancing beams). Through interacting with the space around them, they are able to remember and process information. Possible career paths: Athletes, physical education teachers, dancers, actors, firefighters, artisans.

Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart)
- Enjoys socializing with peers
- Seems to be a natural leader
- Gives advice to friends who have problems
- Seems to be people smart -- attuned to others
- Belongs to clubs, committees, or other organizations
- Enjoys informally teaching other kids
- Likes to play games with other kids
- Has two or more close friends
- Has a good sense of empathy or concern for others
- Others seek out his/her company

These learners try to see things from other people's point of view in order to understand how they think and feel. They often have an uncanny ability to sense feelings, intentions and motivations. They are great organizers, although they sometimes resort to manipulation. Generally they try to maintain peace in group settings and encourage cooperation. They use both verbal (e.g. speaking) and non-verbal language (e.g. eye contact, body language) to open communication channels with others. Possible career paths: Counselor, salesperson, politician, business person.

Intrapersonal Intelligence (Self Smarts)
- Displays a sense of independence or strong will
- Has a realistic sense of his/her strengths and weaknesses
- Does well when left alone to play or study
- Marches to the beat of a different drummer in his/her style of living and learning
- Has an interest or hobby that he or she doesn't talk about much
- Has a good sense of self-direction
- Prefers working alone to working with others
- Accurately expresses how he/she is feeling
- Is able to learn from his/her failures and successes
- Has high self-esteem

These learners try to understand their inner feelings, dreams, relationships with others, and strengths and weaknesses. Possible career paths: Researchers, theorists, philosophers.

Naturalistic Intelligence (Nature Smarts)
- Has a strong affinity to the outside world, to the beauty in nature, or to animals
- Enjoys subjects, shows, or stories that deal with animals or natural phenomena
- May show unusual interest in subjects like biology, zoology, botany, geology, meteorology or astronomy
- Is keenly aware of his/her surroundings and changes in the environment
- Has highly developed senses that help him/her notice similarities, differences and changes in his/her surroundings
- May be able to categorize or catalogue things easily
- May notice things others might may not be aware of
- Likes to collect, classify, or read about things from nature ? rocks, fossils, butterflies, feathers, shells, and the like
- Prefers to be outside and readily appreciates and embraces activities like camping, hiking, scuba diving, bird watching, gardening, or climbing, or perhaps he/she may just like sitting quietly and noticing the subtle differences in his/her environment

These learners typically prefer outdoor activities, have a special connection to the wonders of nature, and usually think of the larger picture rather than dwelling on details. Possible career paths: Environmental science, on-location scientific research, philosophers, forestry, wildlife preservation, pastors

Note on a possible ninth intelligence - Existential Intelligence

There are many people who feel that there should be a ninth intelligence, existential intelligence (A.K.A.: "wondering smart, cosmic smart, spiritually smart, or metaphysical intelligence"). Gardner has alluded to the possibility of this intelligence in several of his works. He has stated that existential intelligence might be manifest in someone who is concerned with fundamental questions about existence, or who questions the intricacies of existence. Gardner has offered a preliminary definition as individuals who exhibit the proclivity to pose and ponder questions about life, death, and ultimate realities.

Children with existential intelligence are those ?old souls? who may appear to have a sixth sense, may be psychic, or may pose, and sometimes even answer, life's larger questions, like:

- Why am I here? Why are we here?
- Are there other dimensions, and if so, what are they like?
- Can animals understand us, or do animals go to heaven?
- Are there really ghosts?
- Where do we go when we die?
- Why are some people evil?
- Is there life on other planets?
- Where is heaven?
- Why and where does God live?

CEDU Academics remains committed to providing a high quality, fully accredited academic component that fully supports the emotional growth of the students we serve.

*********
Al Tuch, Master Teacher
CEDU High School/CEDU Middle School Al was drawn to CEDU High School by its emotional growth emphasis. His own emotional growth pursuits led him to participate in Lifespring trainings in the late 1970?s and early 1980?s, where he completed all of their courses, and then went on to staff several of their basic and advanced courses. After careers in the car rental business, real estate, and two entrepreneurial enterprises, Al began his teaching career in 1996. Prior to coming to CEDU in June of 2001, he chaired the Mathematics department at Arrowhead Christian Academy, in addition to his teaching responsibilities. ?I love kids, teaching, and the pursuit of personal growth. CEDU is a perfect match for me.? Al holds bachelor?s degrees in Mathematics from Occidental College and Kinesiology and a Master of Education with an emphasis in teaching from California Baptist University. He currently holds a California Multiple Subjects credential as well as secondary credentials in Mathematics and Kinesiology. Al is the father to two daughters and two stepchildren, ranging in age from 13 to 21."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2005, 08:12:00 PM »
Overall, I'm glad we stuck it out.  Student did well,and as an upperclass student, had more privileges, connected with staff and students.  Student is moving forward with life and doing very well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2005, 08:39:00 PM »
Why do you guys refer to your children as "student"?

Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton    

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2005, 11:06:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-24 17:39:00, Antigen wrote:

"Why do you guys refer to your children as "student"?<


1. Don't want to use personal, gender specific pronouns --extra help to protect identity

2. The place was advertised as a school for young persons with unique learning needs whose needs were not being met previously, thus contributing to emotional/behavioral issues

3.  Patient & client don't seem appropriate... Maybe resident???

4. Possibly "our child" would be better.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2005, 11:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-24 17:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Overall, I'm glad we stuck it out.  Student did well,and as an upperclass student, had more privileges, connected with staff and students.  Student is moving forward with life and doing very well.  

"

I am glad things are going well for your child.  Ours is an amazingly strong-willed, courageous, and creative soul whom I am sure will continue to grow in discernment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2006, 10:50:00 PM »
FUCK CEDU FUCK THEM ALL. I REMEMBER STAFF BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF PATIENTS.PROBILY STAFF ARE ON THIS SITE THEY ARE THE ONES DENIENG ARE FEELING JUST LIKE IN THE PROGRAM I HAVE A COUPLE OF WORDS FOR THEM. FUCK YOU YOU ARE OUT OF A JOB SHIT HEADS.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2006, 12:05:00 AM »
I went to CEDU prior to 2001, so I have no idea how things have changed as far as academics. But certainly, there weren't ANY when I was there, and qualifying CEDU as a school is a misnomer since it's legal designation was as group home.

Thus far, I have never heard a student say anything positive about the school since I departed. I've heard students reiterate what I've seen as far as receiving bogus credits (Science for woodchopping, communication for yelling in raps) and elementary level academics for high school "students." I am sure, in later years, CEDU attempted to legitimize their acdemic program, but to what effect I cannot say.  BUt I do know, I would not trust staff to  verify its authenticity.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2006, 01:51:00 PM »
Well, so you can have some idea, here is the breakdown of the CEDU curriculum as I remember it around the turn of the century. Or millenium. Whatever. From what I remember, each class was split into an A and B section, each of which took a 10 week block to complete.

If you don't want to read everything, just skip down to the Mathematics section to get the full jist of the academic horror that is CEDU.

I hope this post allows parents considering a CEDU a more objective look at what the academics at CEDU involved. Now you can see how truly underprepared your children will be for higher education after receiving a "CEDU education".

English (4 "Years"):

English 9 - A lot of arts and crafts, writing poetry, reading books at a middle school reading level

English 10 - Taught by the same teacher as English 9, it was basically just the same bullshit class, but you picked the books you would read, so you could actually challenge yourself if you wanted. Sort of.

American Lit - Actually a somewhat difficult class, this was the only course that reminded me of a real High School class. Val Davis was a very intelligent, demanding teacher, and plenty of kids would whine and take her to raps saying her class was "too demanding". (Funny, those same kids are on this site years later saying "boo hoo, CEDU didn't challenge me academically).

World Lit - Same approach as American Lit, only involving works such as Milton's "Paradise Lost" and Dante's "Divine Comedy". Resume-building and writing a senior thesis were main focuses.

Social Sciences (3 years):

US History 1 and 2 - Basically a crash course in US History starting with the American Revolution and ending with the Civil Rights Movement. Not a bad class, but the teachers had outdated textbooks and far too little time to prepare a good course.

Government - After taking this course, I knew about as much about the government as I did in 8th grade. Makes sense, because the course material was about the same.

Natural Sciences (3 years)

Biology - Actually a pretty good introduction into biology, but again not nearly as good as in a real high school because of the limited lab availability. Couldn't use burners or anything like that...kids were too "fucked up" at CEDU, remember?

Earth Science - Taught by Jim Hooper, a very smart man, I actually learned quite a bit about Earth Science, if you actually care about Earth Science.

Physics - Very brief and basic course, the culmination of which was firing off rockets. I don't know a damn thing about Physics to this day.

Chemistry (Optional) - If you wanted the 4th year of science credit, WHICH EVERY GOOD COLLEGE PRETTY MUCH REQUIRES, you had to be one of the most "in-agreement", upper school students to EARN the privilege to take this class. I never earned it, so I can't tell you what it was like.

Mathematics (2 years)

First off, let me say...2 YEARS OF MATH?!? Good luck getting into junior college with that. I had to take Trig and Pre-Calc at a post grad school to have a prayer of getting into a decent college.

Algebra 1 and 2 - Both classes met at the same time and with the same teacher. They basically handed you a text book and wished you the best of luck, and the teacher would come help you if you were having trouble TEACHING YOURSELF ALGEBRA. If everyone in, say, Algebra 1 was struggling with the same concept, then they'd teach the concept on the board.

Math was a travesty at CEDU...not being able to understand Math closes the door on a lot of really cool degrees in college.

Foreign Languages (2 years)

Spanish - The only language offered at CEDU, and even this was only introduced a year into my stay. I barely learned to construct a sentence in spanish, and we spent most of the time watching the animated version of Lord of the Rings.



I think that's about it for classes. Keep in mind that the first 6 months of a stay at CEDU involve taking, at the most, 2 of those classes, as the rest of your time is spent on the farm or in "Voyager Classroom", where basically you learn horticulture and how to draw.

A CEDU Diploma = one hell of a struggle to get into college!!! I had a 3.9 GPA and a 1580 on my SAT's, and I still didn't get into 11 of the 13 schools I applied to. Imagine how thrilled I was at finding out the only schools I could go to with scores like those were my 2 safety schools. I was lucky enough to be wait-listed at one of my top choices, where I was finally accepted and have been going to ever since.

I guess 2 years of math just wasn't going to cut it.

Not to worry, I think something like 60% of all CEDU grads don't bother with college anyways. I know, I know, that's just a statistic, not to be trusted, but when I take a look at all the people I knew at BCA, I'd say about 1 in every 4 went to college.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Son Of Serbia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 484
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2006, 05:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-06 10:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Not to worry, I think something like 60% of all CEDU grads don't bother with college anyways. I know, I know, that's just a statistic, not to be trusted, but when I take a look at all the people I knew at BCA, I'd say about 1 in every 4 went to college. "



That percentage becomes even more miniscule when you consider that 60% of of all cedu students, don't even bother to graduate cedu!!!  So in reality, it's only 40% of the 40% of cedu kids who actually stay till graduation.  What this means is that overall, only like 12%-15% of all kids who attend Cedu successfully graduate the program, and continue on to college.  That's just completely pathetic, don't you agree?


.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-03-06 14:53 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2006, 09:11:00 PM »
Oh yeah, completely agree. I was only talking about the ones who got there diplomas, but you're right...plenty of kids didn't even get THAT far.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2006, 09:33:00 PM »
When I went to RMA, my parents demanded that I be in classes full time.  While other kids went off to chop wood, I went to classes.
Early on one of the math teachers took ill and I was  asked, by my 5 fellow students, if I could teach them the material since I was widely regarded as being well ahead of my peers.
So I taught them Algebra 1 and Geometry for 8 weeks.  I don't think the teacher ever returned.  
Eventually I was asked to continue teaching, and I ended up teaching Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and Trig to the students there.  They did not offer Physics, even though Will Vernard should have been qualified I think.  
The point of this was that the school knew it had no teachers capable of teaching math, much less science, as most were not all that bright to begin with.  Many people can complete courses without ever retaining the information for later use.  As such, though someone attended college and may have received a degree, they might be unqualified or incapable of teaching others what they learned.

RMA and the other schools seemed to be this way.  Many of the classes had names that reflected hobbies more than actual courses.  I am one of the few people to this day that can say I took Basket Weaving in school.  
Other courses were called Photography in Nature.  Basically taking pictures of plants, leaves or whatever else we found.  Very relaxing class, but hardly prep-work for attending a college.  Animal Husbandry, which was nothing more than being able to identify what parts of the cow went with what cuts of meat at the grocery store.  Hard to impress a college administrator with that kind of knowledge.  They should have had video game playing and called it Computer Theory or Computer Strategy and Simulation.  

Most states back then required 200-220 units to graduated and receive a diploma.  Somehow, with Idaho having the same requirements, I graduated with more than 900 units, because these schools consider everything you do to be worth credits.  So many of those credits came in the form of Home Economics.  By the time you were halfway through the program, you often had worked in the kitchen, and that counts as credits for graduation.  Pretty much everything we did counted.  The diploma, for most of us, was not worth the paper it was written on.

I had it easy.  Learning came naturally to me and I was far ahead in school before I arrived and could have taken the GED when I was 10 years old.  But I watched so many students, who had at least been getting a normal education back home -equal to their learning levels- reduced to incompetent, uneducated teens as they "graduated" from the program, totally unequipped to handle college or anything requiring any semblance of an education.

But the staff would comment that we were not there to get educated, because that was not our problem.  There were far more important things for us to be working on.  I only attended classes often because my parents bugged the school often, asking endless questions about my academics.  Because, ultimately, that was all they cared about.  I could have been a mass murderer, but my parents would have just said, "uh huh, but how are your grades?"  Because to them, good grades, meant good kid.

But what I was saying above, about how the staff made it "ok" for us not to get a good education, was the point of this post.  They knew these schools did not have the staff or licensed teachers to provide a real education.  It was not really a part of their Master Plan.  The reason for this might be the same reason why dictatorships and Communist countries limit interaction with the outside world to their subjects.  Education and free communication breed free thinkers.  The last thing RMA and CEDU wanted for us, was to have us thinking for ourselves.  Asking questions.  Questioning what was going on.
And the reason they kept communication with the parents vague and uninformative, was for the very same reason.  And they were well practiced at this tactic and very good at it.  But based on what the two parents above demonstrated, not always perfect as some parents were able to figure it out for themselves.
It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children.  And like the two posters above, when a parents gets an inkling that something is amiss, that their child may be in danger, action is taken.  Right or wrong.  We should be using this site to inform parents, teach them, educate them, so this stuff doesn't continue.  Because ultimately, as the customers, only they can boycott and shutdown these places by not sending their kids there.  What we should not be doing, is just using this as a place to rant back and fourth amongst ourselves on trivial issues.  
Whether Roy was great or not is not something I came to this site to argue about.  I come here to interact with former students and validate for myself, verify for myself that what I experienced was experienced by others and that I am not insane for thinking there was something wrong with these schools.  For thinking they did something to us, against our will and that we were harmed by it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2006, 09:57:00 PM »
I remember I was having a conversation with my Mom about a year after leaving BCA, and I mentioned something about how much I was struggling in my college math courses because of how ill-prepared I was at BCA.

She said "So the academics really were bad at Boulder Creek?"

I, having told my parents repeatedly how miserable the academics were, was astonished. "You mean you didn't believe me when I told you every week?"

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at her response. But she told me, "Administration always told us that students would try to manipulate their parents with the same three, big lies."

I can't remember what the last 2 were, but apparently the first big lie that we were telling our parents in order to get pulled was that the academics were a sad, pitiful joke. I'm sure you can all see the irony there, and I'm sure it will give you a new-found love for CEDU.

Seriously, someone defend CEDU now. Someone tell me they were "doing the best thing for us".

Then go to your local supermarket and ask the cedu alum bagging groceries if he/she agrees. All those "animal husbandry" classes clearly paid off for them in the end.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline OKB4RMA

  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2006, 10:22:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-06 18:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"When I went to RMA, my parents demanded that I be in classes full time.  While other kids went off to chop wood, I went to classes.

Early on one of the math teachers took ill and I was  asked, by my 5 fellow students, if I could teach them the material since I was widely regarded as being well ahead of my peers.

So I taught them Algebra 1 and Geometry for 8 weeks.  I don't think the teacher ever returned.  

Eventually I was asked to continue teaching, and I ended up teaching Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 and Trig to the students there.  They did not offer Physics, even though Will Vernard should have been qualified I think.  

The point of this was that the school knew it had no teachers capable of teaching math, much less science, as most were not all that bright to begin with.  Many people can complete courses without ever retaining the information for later use.  As such, though someone attended college and may have received a degree, they might be unqualified or incapable of teaching others what they learned.



RMA and the other schools seemed to be this way.  Many of the classes had names that reflected hobbies more than actual courses.  I am one of the few people to this day that can say I took Basket Weaving in school.  

Other courses were called Photography in Nature.  Basically taking pictures of plants, leaves or whatever else we found.  Very relaxing class, but hardly prep-work for attending a college.  Animal Husbandry, which was nothing more than being able to identify what parts of the cow went with what cuts of meat at the grocery store.  Hard to impress a college administrator with that kind of knowledge.  They should have had video game playing and called it Computer Theory or Computer Strategy and Simulation.  



Most states back then required 200-220 units to graduated and receive a diploma.  Somehow, with Idaho having the same requirements, I graduated with more than 900 units, because these schools consider everything you do to be worth credits.  So many of those credits came in the form of Home Economics.  By the time you were halfway through the program, you often had worked in the kitchen, and that counts as credits for graduation.  Pretty much everything we did counted.  The diploma, for most of us, was not worth the paper it was written on.



I had it easy.  Learning came naturally to me and I was far ahead in school before I arrived and could have taken the GED when I was 10 years old.  But I watched so many students, who had at least been getting a normal education back home -equal to their learning levels- reduced to incompetent, uneducated teens as they "graduated" from the program, totally unequipped to handle college or anything requiring any semblance of an education.



But the staff would comment that we were not there to get educated, because that was not our problem.  There were far more important things for us to be working on.  I only attended classes often because my parents bugged the school often, asking endless questions about my academics.  Because, ultimately, that was all they cared about.  I could have been a mass murderer, but my parents would have just said, "uh huh, but how are your grades?"  Because to them, good grades, meant good kid.



But what I was saying above, about how the staff made it "ok" for us not to get a good education, was the point of this post.  They knew these schools did not have the staff or licensed teachers to provide a real education.  It was not really a part of their Master Plan.  The reason for this might be the same reason why dictatorships and Communist countries limit interaction with the outside world to their subjects.  Education and free communication breed free thinkers.  The last thing RMA and CEDU wanted for us, was to have us thinking for ourselves.  Asking questions.  Questioning what was going on.

And the reason they kept communication with the parents vague and uninformative, was for the very same reason.  And they were well practiced at this tactic and very good at it.  But based on what the two parents above demonstrated, not always perfect as some parents were able to figure it out for themselves.

It is a natural instinct for parents to protect their children.  And like the two posters above, when a parents gets an inkling that something is amiss, that their child may be in danger, action is taken.  Right or wrong.  We should be using this site to inform parents, teach them, educate them, so this stuff doesn't continue.  Because ultimately, as the customers, only they can boycott and shutdown these places by not sending their kids there.  What we should not be doing, is just using this as a place to rant back and fourth amongst ourselves on trivial issues.  

Whether Roy was great or not is not something I came to this site to argue about.  I come here to interact with former students and validate for myself, verify for myself that what I experienced was experienced by others and that I am not insane for thinking there was something wrong with these schools.  For thinking they did something to us, against our will and that we were harmed by it.  









"


Sorry for quoting such a long post but I feel that this is an important one.

I could have written this post myself other than the fact that my parents just threw me into the program and I had the honor of chopping wood et al. that most students had.

I too taught my "algebra and geometry" class...it was the only math class that I have recollection taking...I mean teaching.  If I remember correctly Will Vernard WAS our teacher (It might have been Bob though)...and he was also quite adept at math...however, most of the other students were struggling and Will...athough a very competent mathematician himself, was not as competent when it came to actually teaching the stuff.  He had a tough time "simplifying" things so that the students could understand better.  I saw where I could be of help the first day of class and offered to show the students some simple algebra.  Will directed me to the chalkboard and handed me the chalk. I went on to explain things so that the students could get a basic grasp of what algebra actually was...they were having a tough time grasping the concept of a variable and for some reason, I was able to help them better than Will.

To make a long story short...I got frustrated also as in MY mind...I was there to learn...not to play "teacher" to students that were eons behind me academically (I was 17 and had 13 year olds in the class) so basically after the first two classes we all just sat around and listened to the RMA designated teacher tell his pre RMA "war stories".

please note that I'm not sure if it was Will or Bob that was teaching...but I'm pretty sure it was Will.

I still think I got an A in the class...pretty pathetic.

but it's really not the academics that I have a beef with...it is the basic premise of the so called "therapy" and the structure of the program itself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline try another castle

  • Registered Users
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2693
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
They System Is the Whole Problem and You Are Accountable
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2006, 04:18:00 AM »
Actually, I didn't have a hard time following Will at all. In fact the only reason I got a C in my final math class was because I slacked off.

Does anyone from RMA remember Mortenson math? It was this bullshit math they taught to lower school students that essentially used blocks for algebra. (They even had a calculus book, but we never got around to using it.) Like, a long skinny one was x, then a flat square was x squared, then the cube was x cubed. It was such total bullshit. I remember one guy in my peer group would just pile up the x cubed ones to look like a bunch of amps and speakers and he'd make the x do stage dives.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-03-07 01:19 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »