Former staff forgivable??

[enough]

I subscribe to the latter, though I never starved anyone.

Point of order- not all of us on staff were there of our own freewill, some staffers were being threatened with jail time if they did not comply. That threat was in effect for at least six months after 7 stepping for som, and longer for others.

Of course we are starting to learn that many of these alleged court orders- never existed.
The law calls that false imprisonment.

As easy as it is to call for others to be martyrs, it is not so easy to become one, to go to jail rather than yell at kids, or turn your head from the scene of the crime.

[Shelby]

If the staff members I had experience with were truly "brainwashed", yes that would preclude free will. That's why I put "brainwashed" in quotation marks. I DO NOT believe for one second that the staff members I dealt with were brainwashed. Others may have been, I can't say because I didn't know them. But as a 7th stepper, I hung out with nearly every VA staff member. They laughed about putting "misbehavers" on the peanut butter diet, making 16 year old boys sit in playpens, making girls sit on the guys side and be threatened with rape. They laughed about letting my former newcomer pound her head on the floor until she was nearly unconscious. They openly trashed specific phasers and would toss around ideas of how they were going to "fuck with their heads" in group the next day. And I saw their faces change when they spoke of leading group. They got off on it. It was a power trip, plain and simple. Over a very captive audience. And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards.

It seems to me that truly brainwashed staff would have believed that what was happening was necessary treatment. And why would that be so damnned amusing?

Truly brainwashed staff would have believed in the rules that they crammed down our throats. But these staff members drank, smoked, were screwing each other - not to mention talking shit about phasers by name during off hours.

So, no I can't excuse them under the guise of being brainwashed, since they weren't. But I can admit that they were probably just too simple minded to see that what they were doing was abuse.

Shelby

[ladyjerrico]

That's discusting me to, they laughed about it? so basically they enjoyed mistreating the phaseres who suffered.
They had no conciounce (sp?) and that is quite disturbing. I'm wondering if the "brainwashing" has something to do with thier conciounce desicions then.
Laughing about someones misfortune isn't nessasary for the treatment of a client! And it will never be.
Abuse is too light of a word, they were knowingly and willfully doing this to those who were there, and why? So they feel better about themselves?
That is disturbing and I hope those staff members who did that are getting punished themselves because it's just VERY wrong!

[kosmonaut]

"And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards."

I remember seeing that happen in group, many many times.

[ClayL]

James Wrote: "Fear is a powerful motivator, and if there is one thing that most staffers shared it was fear of the people above us in the COC. "

Now isn't that Gods Own truth. I, to this day find it extremely difficult to express my opinion to people higher in the office food chain than I. This, even though I know they value and actively seek my opinion on things. I was terrified of the Execs. and this was a response they actively cultivated. The one time I actually went to one of them with a problem I got fired. I guess the fact that I called them Neo-Nazi's probably had something to do with it.... Go figure!

To be honest, I am deeply embarrassed about my time on staff. I was under the impression that I was assisting people finding a good direction in life and had bought the whole thing so much that I still believe up until this past year. I am not a monster. I am a compasionate human begin who has a tendancy to be a supreme asshole when my medication is not right. The medication is for ADHD, something else I found out this past year.

Clay

PS For those of you who understand the asshole comment, I apologize.

[METALGOD8]

Let's put the staff into categories. I know that I wanted to be a staff member because they got to stomp on people without even touching them. Hmm, maybe I missed my calling there, oh well. Is there a staff member reading this who never gave anyone a consequence? That is a category right there. I would question anyone who did not. I perceive the staff members at straight, inc. as in the category of "insulation". Executives needed space between them and the victims. As the future staff members were molded in group, the existing ones essentially created a barrier between the execs and the kids. How many times did I try to say something to a junior staff member and was motioned to shush! I could NEVER talk to a staff member about anything at all. I would have to get permission from a 5th phaser, then if he thought it was worthy, then he would send it up. Well, whatever, that's old news now. Don't think for a minute that staff members were hunky dory people in those warehouses. They all share the gestapo label in my book. Typically, Even as people sentenced to die are lined up at the firing squad, there are a few guards that would offer last cigarettes.   MG8

[ladyjerrico]

The only time I was able to actually talk to a staff member was when I requested to pull myself from the program. I did this 3 times and my parents denied me everytime. So of course the staff would talk with me one on one and tell me that I have no place else to go and I better stay.
When I turned 18 I was finally able to sign myself out, and various staff actually took the time to convince me to stay, I told them "no way in hell will I stay no matter what you offered me" they got upset and told me that I would die on the streets.
Actually from a conversation I had from a phaser I went to the same rehab with, she told me that one of the staff members went back to using and died, she 7th stepped and everything, I was only up to 2nd phase and never made it past that.
Hmm.. I wonder if it was my will power that I wouldn't allow them to break me ??

[Tampa survivor]

I remember in rules rap how the person relating the "pull yourself" rule would sarcastically say that "if you tell the 5th phaser, and He May send your request up to junior, where you MIGHT get talked to bout it, then SR will, eventually, try to talk you out of it....and so on."  The rule was recited with giggles and sarcasim as we all KNEW that requests to pull oneself were routinly IGNORED, even if the client was over 18.  In the early 80's, I venture to say almost nobody got to pull themselves unless they split or had an outside helper to pressure the program about it.  Many 18 plus people were held for LONG periods, stating the desire to leave.  I remember Miller Newton telling a guy in exec rap who had sent a pull request up the coc that"I haven't seen it, follow COC"  

JR and SR staff sat on it, but I am sure Miller was 1st to know when a request went in.  Sr and jr staff ROUTINELY stalled pull requests, or allowed themselves to be used as cover.  Any former staff wish to comment...

Bill

[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-10-18 06:14 ]

[ClayL]

Bill wrote: "The rule was recited with giggles and sarcasim as we all KNEW that requests to pull oneself were routinly IGNORED, even if the client was over 18. In the early 80's, I venture to say almost nobody got to pull themselves unless they split or had an outside helper to pressure the program about it."

You got that right. I saw right away that nobody got to withdraw from the program and that putting through to withdraw only got one in serious trouble. This was the only reason I never ask to get out.

Of course I gave people consequences. I never placed anyone in a restraint or gave any of the more grotesquely creative consequences. When I did OMR I had a list of people and what consequence I was to give them. No explanation as to why. I was supposed to confront them, give them an oppotunity to confess and then deliver what ever consequence was on the list. Kind of like justice is in China.

CL

[wesfager]

Bill from Tampa,

Could you please eMail me at http://www.thestraights.com

[Tampa survivor]

Clay, James, thanks for the way you help us understand some of the inner workings of the program as former staff.  Did the EXECs know when a pull request went in or were you told not to tell them out of order?  Did they ASK you to stall?  What was the conversations like regarding that with your bosses.  I want to know as I am trying to put together a better picture of how much the execs really were involved in the day to day stuff.  It serves them well to be able to say "the kidstaff fucked that up" but I suspect (KNOW in the case of M. Newton) that they conspired with Sr staff supervisors and SR/JR staff.  Kris L., you might know a thing or two on this as a former SR staff....
Bill

[hedwigfan]

I don't recall a lot of requests to withdraw. My personal attitude toward it was to see it through, much like I don't try to stop patients from signing out AMA today. Could have something to do with the fact that I was falsely imprisoned myself. Any requests that actually made it through a 5th phaser went up the COC, and, of course, to the executives. They had the final say over pretty much everything. That's how things worked in Atlanta. Kris

[Tampa survivor]

You know, I hadn't ever connected my attitude towards AMA patients until just now...I am the same way as you. I try one good discussion, then say have your last meds and eat something before security shows up.  I had one a few weeks ago on a cardiac floor I had to work a shift on....found him some clothes and stuffed some juices in his jacket as he was homeless.
For those not in medical biz, AMA is against medical advice, where a patient in hospital decides to leave, regardless of his/her condition.  Some nurses and docs get real wound up and try to hold them in various ways.
Bill

[Tampa survivor]

Hey Wes you have mail...
Hope it helps.  
Bill

[Tampa survivor]

Shelby said "But as a 7th stepper, I hung out with nearly every VA staff member. They laughed about putting "misbehavers" on the peanut butter diet, making 16 year old boys sit in playpens, making girls sit on the guys side and be threatened with rape. They laughed about letting my former newcomer pound her head on the floor until she was nearly unconscious. They openly trashed specific phasers and would toss around ideas of how they were going to "fuck with their heads" in group the next day. And I saw their faces change when they spoke of leading group. They got off on it. It was a power trip, plain and simple. Over a very captive audience. And I know I'm not the only one who saw staff members sitting in the back of group, laughing so hard at kids being insulted and humiliated, that they had to hide their faces behind their clipboards."

Shelby hit some strong points in her post.  This is the other side of my feelings on this issue, as opposed to the lets forgive and forget side of me.  This entire thread is just about those two views and I still cannot believe that 100% benevolent actions were embraced by most staffers.  God, I am glad I never surrendered, as my conscious would kill me.
Bill